Proposal: Jets & Sens - Mark Stone

[umwoz]

Stone + Ceci/Chabot doesn't return Little + Connor for you?

Might be overrating Connor a bit, or underrating the value of a young top 4 defenseman.

Chabot would be VERY close and maybe do it. But the Jets sorely lack elite shots at forward positions. Laine/Connor will hopefully lead the change.

 

[lomiller1]

Age and contract give Stone more valuable, but both these guys are probably going to similar impact next year.

Possibly. IMO the more relevant point is that the Sens don’t really need Little. He’s only a minor upgrade to what they have, and the loss of Stone really hurts them.

 

[JetsHomer]

Possibly. IMO the more relevant point is that the Sens don’t really need Little. He’s only a minor upgrade to what they have, and the loss of Stone really hurts them.

Yes but at the same time we have Wheeler, we don't need Stone.

 

[tacogeoff]

Yes but at the same time we have Wheeler, we don't need Stone.

exactly. That's why this proposal is for both teams.

 

[JetsHomer]

really shot suppression is minor? possession is minor?

We have a more offensive forward who is also better at defence

i guess my definition of minor is something different but if any of your stats are close to that of a 4th liner then it isnt the best thing

if offence was the only difference, i can completely see the Center v Winger argument hold up, but its offence and defence. So yeah you can take your center ill take the better 200 foot forward

Not sure why the HERO chart has Stone's defence and possession better than Little's I use hockeyanalysis and they have Little with the better CA/60, CF%, CF%relTM and CA/60relTM (which is what the HERO chart claims to measure?)

Does anyone who knows more about these stats sites know why these numbers would differ between hockeyanalysis and the HERO chart site?

 

[KnuckChuckinTkachuk]

Yaaaaa no. If Connor + Trouba isn't the STARTING point, I want no part of this. Overpayment or go look else where, you don't get our best forward for a collection of Okay pieces.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Takeaways/giveaways are arguably a worse stats than +/-. It’s just too inconsistently collected and to vague to be meaningful. The vast majority of plays that result in possession changes never get tracked in any way.

Oh, it's meaningful when discussing Stone. He's a monster at takeaways - and not only does he steal pucks all the time, but he makes something happen when he does.

I like Little, but Stone is a wizard.

 

[Benjamin]

Sens don't need Little. Jets aren't close enough to competing to mortgage future for a top winger.

This logic is odd.

You dont want to risk losing out on a potential top winger for an actual top winger thats 23.

 

[TT1]

Stone is untouchable, i'd rather trade Karlsson before moving Stone.

 

[Johnny HFBOARDS]

Damn you HFBoards!!!!! ^

 

[umwoz]

This logic is odd.

You dont want to risk losing out on a potential top winger for an actual top winger thats 23.

Is it really that odd?

First, the Jets aren't a contender, hell they're barely on the fringe of fringe playoff teams. So the youth is beneficial to their system.

When I say we're losing out on a top winger, I'm taking into account their playing style. Kyle Connor has an elite level shot, is great at finishing on one timers and in general has a great nack for the back of the net. This is a player who outproduced Dylan Larkin at the same age in college hockey. I know many people use this website as their database for prospects, even though they haven't updated Connor at all since being drafted. Prior to Laine's arrival, Connor was the best prospect in a prospect pool widely considered one of the best in hockey.

Also, you phrased it as if the trade was one for one. Losing out on a potential top winger AND a current Center who fits into the first line/elite 2nd line category. Bryan Little has provided SIMILAR offensive and defensive output to Stone the past two years.

If those two are the basis of acquiring Mark Stone, I don't think a team in Winnipeg's position with Winnipeg's needs should consider it.

 

[bert]

You're right, the twoway 60 point center is better.

You dont see me here saying Turris is better than Scheifele. Try to use some logic. Stone just finished 2nd in calder voting lead the league in take aways by double is 6 years younger than Little and already a better point producer and player.

Stone is officially the most underated player on HF by the looks of this thread. He was the highest scoring Canadian born RW in the NHL last year and the 18th highest scoring Canadian. Its fine if you dont watch the sens but dont be ignorant.

 

[Benjamin]

Is it really that odd?

First, the Jets aren't a contender, hell they're barely on the fringe of fringe playoff teams. So the youth is beneficial to their system.

When I say we're losing out on a top winger, I'm taking into account their playing style. Kyle Connor has an elite level shot, is great at finishing on one timers and in general has a great nack for the back of the net. This is a player who outproduced Dylan Larkin at the same age in college hockey. I know many people use this website as their database for prospects, even though they haven't updated Connor at all since being drafted. Prior to Laine's arrival, Connor was the best prospect in a prospect pool widely considered one of the best in hockey.

Also, you phrased it as if the trade was one for one. Losing out on a potential top winger AND a current Center who fits into the first line/elite 2nd line category. Bryan Little has provided SIMILAR offensive and defensive output to Stone the past two years.

If those two are the basis of acquiring Mark Stone, I don't think a team in Winnipeg's position with Winnipeg's needs should consider it.

I understand the bold, its fair reasoning. Its the way you said it. "Mortgaging the future" while adding Stone. Thats ridiculous.

Stone is 23. He is youth.

The Family Guy YT vid sums it up

 

[NoShowWilly]

Mark Stone is a gem. that is all.

 

[TeamRenzo]

delete this thread as soon as possible

or offer more laine

im serious

after karlsson its stone in terms of skill and value on ottawa

This!

There are not many players I would trade Stone for.

 

[Xspyrit]

However.... the difference between Mark Stone and Bryan Little is not Kyle Connor a blue chip prospect.

Then what is it?

Mark Stone, 24 y/o, 2 years left at 3.5 then RFA

Bryan Little, (almost) 29 y/o, 2 years left at 4.7 then UFA

Ya. no. I watch both teams religiously. Stone destroys Little defensively and its not a worse stat than +/- when you watch stone break up plays and pick guys pockets like its no buddies business and turns the puck up ice or keeps the opposition pinned in their end. He is a tremendous talent and a much higher value than little. it is what it is.

I like this unbiased stuff.

Can we trade posters?

Possibly. IMO the more relevant point is that the Sens don’t really need Little. He’s only a minor upgrade to what they have, and the loss of Stone really hurts them.

I don't see how Little is better than Turris or Brassard. They all seem to be in the same tier, 2-way 60 pts centers.