Post-Game Talk: Jets 6 - Pens 3

[KingBogo]

It isn't that Ehlers' shifts are too short. It is that Scheifele's/Connor's are too long. The style difference should not make that big a difference over an extended period.

We have been given a few numbers on other team's lines that do not go that long. Do you have a line that plays a similar style takes shifts that long?

Ehlers takes shorter shifts than anyone on the team due to his style of play. You can’t automatically say that is how long everyone’s shifts should be. The cycle guys would never be able to get a cycle going if they came off on entry like Ehlers often does. Not saying some shifts aren’t too long but Ehlers goes to the other extreme.

 

[surixon]

To be honest, both of them look at little quicker (and faster) this season (in my opinion)

Is it also just me or does his skating posture seem more technically correct this year? You used to be able to easily pick him out on the ice due to his posture.

It looks more refined to me now and he blends in more with the other players.

 

[ERYX]

I'm not angry.... I must have misunderstood your post

Ok, all good my friend

 

[raideralex99]

Chicken or egg? They get hemmed in because they stayed out too long. I vote for some of each.

Or maybe they get hemmed because the opposing teams has their best forecheckers on the ice and the Jets don't have their only rushing D man on the ice to help them out.
If Ehlers, Names and Perfetti became the Jets top scoring line the opposing teams would send out their version of a Lowry line to play against them.
I don't understand why fans can't give credit to opposing team for a good play, check, goal, whatever instead of always putting the blame on their players.

 

[jetsforever]

Missed the game but great to stay undefeated
Ehlers was looking really good on his assists
The Rutger chant was hilarious

Also really cool to see Little suit up one last time

 

[JetsFan815]

Ehlers takes shorter shifts than anyone on the team due to his style of play. You can’t automatically say that is how long everyone’s shifts should be. The cycle guys would never be able to get a cycle going if they came off on entry like Ehlers often does. Not saying some shifts aren’t too long but Ehlers goes to the other extreme.

Ehlers shifts tend to average in the low to mid 40s which is pretty standard. If you plotted out avg shift lengths of all NHL forwards in the last few years, I am willing to bet that he would fall probably in fat part of the bell curve. If I am wrong I am happy to admit it. Just because we are used to our top guys taking 55+ second shifts on the regular doesn't make Ehlers' normal sized shifts "short".

 

[jungles]

It's incredible how the lack of playoff success makes other fans and the media completely forget about where the Jets finished last year. Current narrative is "we have seen them start like this before and fizzle out", and "can they keep it up for a whole season", and one blog even said "they might even finish as high as 2nd in the West this year, but only if they don't fade like they always do".

It really shows you regular reason success is so easily forgotten if you can't get it done when it really matters. Let's hope Arniel perfects the recipe.

 

[KingBogo]

Ehlers shifts tend to average in the low to mid 40s which is pretty standard. If you plotted out avg shift lengths of all NHL forwards in the last few years, I am willing to bet that he would fall probably in fat part of the bell curve. If I am wrong I am happy to admit it. Just because we are used to our top guys taking 55+ second shifts on the regular doesn't make Ehlers' normal sized shifts "short".

That certainly hasn’t been the discussion as Bones discussed it at length last season. This year it certainly been the case again. Ehlers gets the same number of shifts as his linemates but comes in with a couple minutes less TOI.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Ehlers takes shorter shifts than anyone on the team due to his style of play. You can’t automatically say that is how long everyone’s shifts should be. The cycle guys would never be able to get a cycle going if they came off on entry like Ehlers often does. Not saying some shifts aren’t too long but Ehlers goes to the other extreme.

I'm not even talking about Ehlers.

Earlier in this thread we had some shift length stats posted. The Scheifele line was way longer than any other line that was mentioned, Jets and some other teams.

Or maybe they get hemmed because the opposing teams has their best forecheckers on the ice and the Jets don't have their only rushing D man on the ice to help them out.
If Ehlers, Names and Perfetti became the Jets top scoring line the opposing teams would send out their version of a Lowry line to play against them.
I don't understand why fans can't give credit to opposing team for a good play, check, goal, whatever instead of always putting the blame on their players.

No doubt that is another factor. It does get mentioned when we talk about the line losing its matchups.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Excellent, thanks for sharing. I was hoping there would be some Rutger/Yager chants.

Is 32 Thoughts no longer available in text? I'm not interested in listening to any podcast.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It's incredible how the lack of playoff success makes other fans and the media completely forget about where the Jets finished last year. Current narrative is "we have seen them start like this before and fizzle out", and "can they keep it up for a whole season", and one blog even said "they might even finish as high as 2nd in the West this year, but only if they don't fade like they always do".

It really shows you regular reason success is so easily forgotten if you can't get it done when it really matters. Let's hope Arniel perfects the recipe.

Its not just other fans and media. It is us too.

I keep wondering which was the real Jets last year, 4th OA or swept aside easily in the PO? I don't forget about that regular season, it was a great ride. But getting punted so quietly in the PO - again, leaves a bad taste in the mouth - again.

Unfortunately, the regular season won't entirely erase that because they have so often been bad in the PO. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, three times, four times - I'm in show me territory. Another good regular season and I will be on the bandwagon again, but I will be ready to jump off quickly before it goes over that cliff.

 

[raideralex99]

It's incredible how the lack of playoff success makes other fans and the media completely forget about where the Jets finished last year. Current narrative is "we have seen them start like this before and fizzle out", and "can they keep it up for a whole season", and one blog even said "they might even finish as high as 2nd in the West this year, but only if they don't fade like they always do".

It really shows you regular reason success is so easily forgotten if you can't get it done when it really matters. Let's hope Arniel perfects the recipe.

That " fade like they always do" comment cracks me up ... HELLO they won 8 straight games to end the season, shutting out Dallas and the Avs in that streak plus 5 of 8 games were against playoff teams.
The lack of playoff success belongs to the Leafs. For a team that is over 100 years old they have NEVER won more than 2 rounds in the playoffs.

 

[Gm0ney]

Ehlers takes shorter shifts than anyone on the team due to his style of play. You can’t automatically say that is how long everyone’s shifts should be. The cycle guys would never be able to get a cycle going if they came off on entry like Ehlers often does. Not saying some shifts aren’t too long but Ehlers goes to the other extreme.

The cycle guys wouldn't be able to effectively cycle if their shifts were as long as Scheifele's and Connor's.

Last season avg shift:
Lowry: 0:44
Appleton: 0:47
Niederreiter: 0:47

Scheifele and Connor were 11th and 14th respectively in forward shift length in the entire NHL last season. Vilardi was 21st.

A lot of the other forwards in the Top 20 for shift length are possession-driving machines, which suggests to me that they're out there for long shifts because they're the ones doing the hemming. Kaprizov, McDavid, Draisaitl, MacKinnon, Kucherov, Panarin - all over 60% xGF And to be fair, Scheifele's line can hem in other teams as well. But they get hemmed in a lot too...

 

[KingBogo]

I'm not even talking about Ehlers.

Earlier in this thread we had some shift length stats posted. The Scheifele line was way longer than any other line that was mentioned, Jets and some other teams.



No doubt that is another factor. It does get mentioned when we talk about the line losing its matchups.

But people with agendas always post small sample sizes to try and prove points. At first it was Scheifele and Connor were only scoring in ways other than 5-5. They then put in some 5-5 goals and the next narrative was but they had the worst CF%. Then they have a game where they have score 5-5 and have the best CF% as a line, so the new narrative is their shifts were too long. You can always find something to support an agenda.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

But people with agendas always post small sample sizes to try and prove points. At first it was Scheifele and Connor were only scoring in ways other than 5-5. They then put in some 5-5 goals and the next narrative was but they had the worst CF%. Then they have a game where they have score 5-5 and have the best CF% as a line, so the new narrative is their shifts were too long. You can always find something to support an agenda.

The stats I saw posted looked pretty representative to me.

Which people do not have an agenda? Everybody has one. I don't trust anyone who doesn't appear to have one. That means they have a hidden one. Yours appears to be to tear apart any argument that says KC and Scheif are a bad fit for each other as long as they score fairly well. Actually that is probably not accurate. You are relentlessly positive so you attack any negativity.

Mine is to accept that they are not good together and come up with explanations and/or fixes. I may clutch at straws occasionally. I like the zone exits explanation right now, until someone does a good job of tearing that one apart. It overlaps with the too long shifts argument which weaves into the hemmed into their own zone issue.

It is all just discussion and doesn't need to have a final winner and loser.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

That " fade like they always do" comment cracks me up ... HELLO they won 8 straight games to end the season, shutting out Dallas and the Avs in that streak plus 5 of 8 games were against playoff teams.
The lack of playoff success belongs to the Leafs. For a team that is over 100 years old they have NEVER won more than 2 rounds in the playoffs.

NEVER?
6 team NHL had 4 PO teams. Win 2 rounds, win the Cup.
Leafs haven't won squat since the first expansion.

Good one! I never thought of that.

 

[KingBogo]

The stats I saw posted looked pretty representative to me.

Which people do not have an agenda? Everybody has one. I don't trust anyone who doesn't appear to have one. That means they have a hidden one. Yours appears to be to tear apart any argument that says KC and Scheif are a bad fit for each other as long as they score fairly well. Actually that is probably not accurate. You are relentlessly positive so you attack any negativity.

Mine is to accept that they are not good together and come up with explanations and/or fixes. I may clutch at straws occasionally. I like the zone exits explanation right now, until someone does a good job of tearing that one apart. It overlaps with the too long shifts argument which weaves into the hemmed into their own zone issue.

It is all just discussion and doesn't need to have a final winner and loser.

Mort by now you must know who keeps trying to stir the pot, but I hope you keep doing your thing as you are enjoyable to debate with as you are always very respectful to differing opinions. But just take a step back and appreciate what each line is doing for us. On Sunday Connor and Scheifele turned the tide in a game with quick back to back goals in a game we were fading in, after that the team as a whole took control of the game. They have played big roles in just about every game and we are 5-0. Together they have scored 9 out of our 24 goals with very respectable underlying numbers. Do you think there is a single member of the team that doesn't appreciate what they are doing to contribute to wins?

 

[Jack7222]

But people with agendas always post small sample sizes to try and prove points. At first it was Scheifele and Connor were only scoring in ways other than 5-5. They then put in some 5-5 goals and the next narrative was but they had the worst CF%. Then they have a game where they have score 5-5 and have the best CF% as a line, so the new narrative is their shifts were too long. You can always find something to support an agenda.

They're been underwater as a pair for like five years. Nobody's drawing conclusions about these two based on the last five games, heh. I don't think it's an agenda, maybe you just don't like the conclusions, which is fine.

 

[KingBogo]

They're been underwater as a pair for like five years. Nobody's drawing conclusions about these two based on the last five games, heh. I don't think it's an agenda, maybe you just don't like the conclusions, which is fine.

So lay out your case about being underwater. Are we a better team with or without them?

 

[Bartho]

But people with agendas always post small sample sizes to try and prove points. At first it was Scheifele and Connor were only scoring in ways other than 5-5. They then put in some 5-5 goals and the next narrative was but they had the worst CF%. Then they have a game where they have score 5-5 and have the best CF% as a line, so the new narrative is their shifts were too long. You can always find something to support an agenda.

Whenever 815 gets on a roll, I always reminisce about this absolute gem of a thread.
Is John Chayka a top-3 GM?

 

[JetsFan815]

Whenever 815 gets on a roll, I always reminisce about this absolute gem of a thread.
Is John Chayka a top-3 GM?

On that I agree with you. That thread was definitely a "hot take" in hindsight.

 

[ps241]

Great memory for Little and especially for his daughter seeing Dad skate one more time for a NHL team.

Honestly, when he looks back on the night I am guessing his daughter’s reaction will be one of the biggest things. She is so young she probably doesn’t have many memories of dad playing. The look on her face last night was priceless.

 

[ps241]

What, you guys all sitting inside on a beautiful sunny 70 (+21c) Sunday afternoon?

Listened to parts of the game on OB’ with screaming Edmonds, sounds like Howdy Doody played well in net!

I went out and golfed on what has to be one of the nicest late October days to golf I can remember.

 

[ps241]

Ehlers had 19 shifts for around 42 seconds on average. Connor had 20 shifts for around 58 seconds of average ice time. I think people are discounting the way players play. Ehlers is very short shift high skating forward, he really doesn't stop skating and needs to get off quicker because of it. When he is gassed he gets off.

Great post and good point.

Nik reminds me of my hilarious mini Labradoodle. We do one lap at the off leash park I walk about 1 mile she clocks at least 4 miles because she is bag skating is circles the entire time we are doing the loop. Nik probably skates further in is 42 seconds than the other forwards do in their 58 seconds.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Mort by now you must know who keeps trying to stir the pot, but I hope you keep doing your thing as you are enjoyable to debate with as you are always very respectful to differing opinions. But just take a step back and appreciate what each line is doing for us. On Sunday Connor and Scheifele turned the tide in a game with quick back to back goals in a game we were fading in, after that the team as a whole took control of the game. They have played big roles in just about every game and we are 5-0. Together they have scored 9 out of our 24 goals with very respectable underlying numbers. Do you think there is a single member of the team that doesn't appreciate what they are doing to contribute to wins?

Yes, and I don't think anyone denies that there are positives. They have been good so far this season. But, speaking of small samples, it is 5 games.

I'm pretty sure you will concede that they get hemmed in the D zone too long, too often and that results in a lot of GA. It has been happening this year too but not as often as in the past. If they can maintain the improvement a lot of those negative stats will turn around. We'll see about that.