Post-Game Talk: Jets 6 - Pens 3

[Jets 31]

I will say that Fleury looks better than Stanley in the early going. I know it was Stanley's first game but i just don't see it with Stanley . 7th or 8th defenseman fine but i don't think i want him in our starting 6 .

 

[rkp]

It's funny, some around here think we're a bubble team. It's actually insane to me.


I understand people's angst with him. I feel like he really lets his emotions dictate his play which is unpredictable.

I was on him last year pretty hard but I do love me some Pionk.

Especially when he crinkles his nose on the bench, it's adorbs.

its been only 5 games...at the start of the season, lotta teams havent really morphed into mid season form, lets wait until the trade deadline and see where they r before annionting them the stanley cup

 

[ERYX]

It's funny, some around here think we're a bubble team. It's actually insane to me.

Well, we're only five games in. After Edmonton's terrible start last year and then getting into the SCF and Winnipeg pooping the bed large after 4th overall ... I'm making no predictions or proclamations one way or another. I'm just taking it game-by-game after last year's disappointment.

 

[Jet]

its been only 5 games...at the start of the season, lotta teams havent really morphed into mid season form, lets wait until the trade deadline and see where they r before annionting them the stanley cup

Anything can happen - but based on the team's performance last year and the minimal changes I think it's pretty safe to assume this will not be a bubble team.

Someone actually suggested that without Hellebuyck we are a lottery team. That's insane.

 

[KingJoffrey]

Say what you want, but it's crazy to play your top 2 winger only 13 min per game. Yeah it's harder to complain when you're 5-0, I understand that, but his ice time is bs. I understand that Lowry lines gets the matchups, but it's waste of talent to give your best or second best forward 3rd line minutes.

It's coaches job to utilize his player to the best. And playing your 28 year top 2 winger 13 min per game is lunacy. Even if Jets would win a Presidents Trophy his usage is a bad decision by the coach and it should be brought up.

 

[digmor crusher]

Where is John Lu?

 

[Buffdog]

Say what you want, but it's crazy to play your top 2 winger only 13 min per game. Yeah it's harder to complain when you're 5-0, I understand that, but his ice time is bs. I understand that Lowry lines gets the matchups, but it's waste of talent to give your best or second best forward 3rd line minutes.

It's coaches job to utilize his player to the best. And playing your 28 year top 2 winger 13 min per game is lunacy. Even if Jets would win a Presidents Trophy his usage is a bad decision by the coach and it should be brought up.

So why do you think that 3 coaches have made the same decision, spanning Ehlers' entire NHL career?

 

[tbcwpg]

Say what you want, but it's crazy to play your top 2 winger only 13 min per game. Yeah it's harder to complain when you're 5-0, I understand that, but his ice time is bs. I understand that Lowry lines gets the matchups, but it's waste of talent to give your best or second best forward 3rd line minutes.

It's coaches job to utilize his player to the best. And playing your 28 year top 2 winger 13 min per game is lunacy. Even if Jets would win a Presidents Trophy his usage is a bad decision by the coach and it should be brought up.

This argument is difficult to make because the game is so fluid that we don't know what would've happened had the team played him more and the top line less. Yes, he probably deserves more than 13 minutes a game, but if the team is winning and playing pretty well while doing so, it's hard to make that argument.

 

[Jet]

So why do you think that 3 coaches have made the same decision, spanning Ehlers' entire NHL career?

I asked him the same question but apparently he just wants to proclaim his dissatisfaction with it instead of trying to understand why.

 

[KingBogo]

Say what you want, but it's crazy to play your top 2 winger only 13 min per game. Yeah it's harder to complain when you're 5-0, I understand that, but his ice time is bs. I understand that Lowry lines gets the matchups, but it's waste of talent to give your best or second best forward 3rd line minutes.

It's coaches job to utilize his player to the best. And playing your 28 year top 2 winger 13 min per game is lunacy. Even if Jets would win a Presidents Trophy his usage is a bad decision by the coach and it should be brought up.

Ehlers TOI is almost all due to shift length. In terms of the number of shifts against the Pens the distribution among the forwards was relatively equal. Nino and Lowry lead the way at 22 shifts, then Names, Schiefele and Connor at 20 shifts, followed by Ehlers, Perfetti, and Apples at 19 shifts, the rest all had 17 or 18 shifts.

 

[JetsFan815]

When you're trapped in your own zone, shift lengths tend to be longer.

This goes part of the way in explaining that. Although their shift lengths tend to be bad even in games where they are not pinned in their zone, for example the Chicago game had similar avg shift lengths for this group and they weren't really pinned in their zone much.

I would not be surprised at all if the Jets top line since Wheeler left is close to the top league wide in avg shift length, although you can't just look it up on a season level at 5v5 and will thus take some effort to compile.

 

[surixon]

Ehlers TOI is almost all due to shift length. In terms of the number of shifts against the Pens the distribution among the forwards was relatively equal. Nino and Lowry lead the way at 22 shifts, then Names, Schiefele and Connor at 20 shifts, followed by Ehlers, Perfetti, and Apples at 19 shifts, the rest all had 17 or 18 shifts.

The shift length is also due to the matchups. They'd get on for 10 seconds and then get pulled off due to the coach wanting the right matchup. It's one of the reasons why the top line with same amount of shifts gets 6 minutes more. The other reason is they extend their shifts.

I understand last night as Pittsburgh was getting Crosby out every third shift or so and often doubled him and Malkin up. But I expect we start to see the second lines minutes climb as they continue to play good hockey.

Honestly it's the top line that should see a reduction in minutes and have those minutes given to the second line. Our top 3 lines should all be in the 16 and a half minute range imo. The fourth line gets 10 and change.

 

[bustamente]

The first power poll of the season has the Jets on top

 

[Huffer]

Had some rough stretches in this game but really nice to see them get another win. Feels good to get these wins early.

Have to give Comrie some love. Hasn't played in a while, but goes in there and gets a ton of shots and I thought he was really battling hard all night.

The Lowry line has been fantastic all year. All 3 of them. Apples has really been playing good so I have to give him props for sure.

Nice to see ENP play well the last few games a well. Ehlers has looked extremely good.

I thought Stanley struggled and didn't look as good as Fleury has been. But he also hasn't played in a while so I will give him some slack. But I wouldn't hesitate to move Fleury ahead of him on the depth chart based on the small size so far. Stanley could be an interesting guy to have in your bottom rotation though for his size.

You don't want guys sitting too long so I like what Arniel is doing, but I have liked Kupari's start as well so hopefully when he gets back in he keeps it up.

 

[Adam da bomb]

The way I see Ehlers getting more minutes is them loading up the top line. Edmonton will usually play Drai and McD on separate lines, but, there is a number of shifts where they just load up even if it's no the regular lines.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Ehlers had 19 shifts for around 42 seconds on average. Connor had 20 shifts for around 58 seconds of average ice time. I think people are discounting the way players play. Ehlers is very short shift high skating forward, he really doesn't stop skating and needs to get off quicker because of it. When he is gassed he gets off.

Good point.
But maybe it is not about Ehlers' usage so much as it is about Scheifele line staying on too long. Maybe KC would have the legs to backcheck a bit more.

BTW, I meant to mention that I actually saw KC backcheck effectively a couple of times yesterday. Credit where due. More of that please.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

From my eye test, it seems like schief's line gets lots of o zone starts and then when the puck is back to the Jets end, they struggle to exit with it and get hemmed in

So it's not like they're out there cruising around lazily.

Most hockey teams have a "one zone max per shift" rule... meaning that if you start in the o zone and it transitions to the d zone, you exit with the puck, get it deep, and change (most often in a one chase/two change order). The opposite is true if you start in the d zone

It all goes back to zone exits for that line

I think you are on to something dog. Zone exits explains a lot of what drives the whole discussion about Ehlers vs Scheif/KC. For one thing, by my recollection, the only time Scheif and Connor together has been a significant net positive has been when Ehlers was the other winger.

The problem with that configuration is that it puts all of the top F on one line. There are possibilities to get around that but no one is going to touch it while the team is winning and the PNE line is working as well as it has the last couple of games.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

When you're trapped in your own zone, shift lengths tend to be longer.

Oh well, its alright then.

 

[Buffdog]

I think you are on to something dog. Zone exits explains a lot of what drives the whole discussion about Ehlers vs Scheif/KC. For one thing, by my recollection, the only time Scheif and Connor together has been a significant net positive has been when Ehlers was the other winger.

The problem with that configuration is that it puts all of the top F on one line. There are possibilities to get around that but no one is going to touch it while the team is winning and the PNE line is working as well as it has the last couple of games.

Ehlers is an absolute zone exit/entry wizard.

I think what hurts schief specifically with zone exits is that he tends to cheat to the high side of the puck and if it gets turned over at the blueline or along the wall, he's out of position to defend

With Connor, he's just weak on pucks - especially as the shift gets extended and he gets tired. Way too much "featherdusting", or just trying to poke a puck out one-handed

I'm not sure if anyone else noticed, but that line has way more success exiting the zone when the puck goes up Vilard's side

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Ehlers TOI is almost all due to shift length. In terms of the number of shifts against the Pens the distribution among the forwards was relatively equal. Nino and Lowry lead the way at 22 shifts, then Names, Schiefele and Connor at 20 shifts, followed by Ehlers, Perfetti, and Apples at 19 shifts, the rest all had 17 or 18 shifts.

So, it is up to the coach to deal with the shift length issue.

 

[gojetsgo]

Winnipeg Jets top the first NHL Power Ranking of the season | TSN

The Jets are the only undefeated team in the league (5-0-0) and their fans will be encouraged to hear their strong play looks sustainable.

www.tsn.ca

Regarding process and results, there has been no better team early this season than the Winnipeg Jets, who sit first in our rankings. The Jets are the only undefeated team in the league (5-0-0) and their fans will be encouraged to hear their strong play looks sustainable.

 

[WolfHouse]

The shift/zone exit conversation is a good one... makes a lot of sense. I doubt anyone is upset about ice time so far - with 7 players producing at a PPG or more

I really think Ehlers was managed in the past due to back issues - looks like they are gone this year.

On thing to watch this year is Pionk's shifts - he seems to end up with some of the longest shifts of our D...

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Ehlers is an absolute zone exit/entry wizard.

I think what hurts schief specifically with zone exits is that he tends to cheat to the high side of the puck and if it gets turned over at the blueline or along the wall, he's out of position to defend

With Connor, he's just weak on pucks - especially as the shift gets extended and he gets tired. Way too much "featherdusting", or just trying to poke a puck out one-handed

I'm not sure if anyone else noticed, but that line has way more success exiting the zone when the puck goes up Vilard's side

I think a top 6 of;
KC - Scheif - Ehls
Perf - Names - Vilardi
might work well.

I certainly would not advocate trialing that while we are winning and playing well though. It would be a more likely success when/if Lambert is ready to replace Names at 2C.

 

[Malcsta]

Ehlers is an absolute zone exit/entry wizard.

I think what hurts schief specifically with zone exits is that he tends to cheat to the high side of the puck and if it gets turned over at the blueline or along the wall, he's out of position to defend

With Connor, he's just weak on pucks - especially as the shift gets extended and he gets tired. Way too much "featherdusting", or just trying to poke a puck out one-handed

I'm not sure if anyone else noticed, but that line has way more success exiting the zone when the puck goes up Vilard's side

Vilardi is great on the boards.

 

[Buffdog]

I think a top 6 of;
KC - Scheif - Ehls
Perf - Names - Vilardi
might work well.

I certainly would not advocate trialing that while we are winning and playing well though. It would be a more likely success when/if Lambert is ready to replace Names at 2C.

The only issue I have with that second line is the lack of footspeed on the wings

I thought that one thing that really hurt Ehlers - Monahan - Toffoli vs the Avs was that they created very little pressure on the Avs D on puck retrievals