Post-Game Talk: Jets 6 - Pens 3

[TS Quint]

Well, we're only five games in. After Edmonton's terrible start last year and then getting into the SCF and Winnipeg pooping the bed large after 4th overall ... I'm making no predictions or proclamations one way or another. I'm just taking it game-by-game after last year's disappointment.

So last year with the near same didn’t happen? This is some typical Eeyore Winnipeger crap. “We’re never good. We don’t deserve nice things. The sky is going to fall eventually, it always does. This 4th place team is nothing but disappointing, they suck, let’s rebuild.”

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The only issue I have with that second line is the lack of footspeed on the wings

I thought that one thing that really hurt Ehlers - Monahan - Toffoli vs the Avs was that they created very little pressure on the Avs D on puck retrievals

None of Perf, Names, Vilardi is as slow as Toffoli. Perfetti has improved his skating. I don't think it would be the problem we saw last year in the PO. Lambert would certainly bring more speed to the trio. But, of course, it would need to be tried to see how they mesh.

 

[Gm0ney]

I wonder how long of shifts Crosby and Malkin took when they were 29 and 30 years old though.

2016-17 season
Crosby (29): 0:48/shift
Malkin (30): 0:49/shift

2024-25 season so far
Scheifele (31): 1:02/shift
Connor (27): 1:00/shift
Ehlers (28): 0:50/shift

I really do think it's because they get more shifts where they're hemmed in.

 

[TS Quint]

Say what you want, but it's crazy to play your top 2 winger only 13 min per game. Yeah it's harder to complain when you're 5-0, I understand that, but his ice time is bs. I understand that Lowry lines gets the matchups, but it's waste of talent to give your best or second best forward 3rd line minutes.

It's coaches job to utilize his player to the best. And playing your 28 year top 2 winger 13 min per game is lunacy. Even if Jets would win a Presidents Trophy his usage is a bad decision by the coach and it should be brought up.

You are 100% wrong. It is not the coaches job to utilize one player the best. It’s the coaches job to use the TEAM the best. The name of the game is to out score your opponents. Last year the Jets were 4th. This year they are #1. There really is no argument that the TEAM is being well utilized.

 

[TS Quint]

I think a top 6 of;
KC - Scheif - Ehls
Perf - Names - Vilardi
might work well.

I certainly would not advocate trialing that while we are winning and playing well though. It would be a more likely success when/if Lambert is ready to replace Names at 2C.

It’s not a top 6 without Lowry’s line.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It’s not a top 6 without Lowry’s line.


It’s not a top 6 without Lowry’s line.

You can say that again.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

2016-17 season
Crosby (29): 0:48/shift
Malkin (30): 0:49/shift

2024-25 season so far
Scheifele (31): 1:02/shift
Connor (27): 1:00/shift
Ehlers (28): 0:50/shift

I really do think it's because they get more shifts where they're hemmed in.

Chicken or egg? They get hemmed in because they stayed out too long. I vote for some of each.

 

[Buffdog]

None of Perf, Names, Vilardi is as slow as Toffoli. Perfetti has improved his skating. I don't think it would be the problem we saw last year in the PO. Lambert would certainly bring more speed to the trio. But, of course, it would need to be tried to see how they mesh.

Perfetti build up to decent top line speed, but it takes him a bit to get there. Same with Lardo

I specifically said "footspeed", but I probably should have said "quickness". Neither Cole nor Gabe are "slow" once they get moving

 

[Gm0ney]

Chicken or egg? They get hemmed in because they stayed out too long. I vote for some of each.

I think the only time they get hemmed in because they stayed out too long is when they can't resist trying to rush the puck after already playing a full shift in the D-zone. Instead of dumping it deep they try to make some offense and it turns the other way and, oops! back in their zone again. Wheeler was the worst for those kinds of shifts - he needed to be escorted off the ice by security and HR

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Good point.
But maybe it is not about Ehlers' usage so much as it is about Scheifele line staying on too long. Maybe KC would have the legs to backcheck a bit more.

BTW, I meant to mention that I actually saw KC backcheck effectively a couple of times yesterday. Credit where due. More of that please.

I think he stays out too long. They cheat for offense whether that is by design or if it is just the way they play. They need to cut the in the offensive zone to the d zone back to the offensive zone "chance" and get off the ice. Too many 1:25+ shifts a game.

 

[surixon]

I think he stays out too long. They cheat for offense whether that is by design or if it is just the way they play. They need to cut the in the offensive zone to the d zone back to the offensive zone "chance" and get off the ice. Too many 1:25+ shifts a game.

This is something Arniel needs to get under control. You really can't have one line abusing shift length while all the other lines are commit3d to shorter and harder shifts.

 

[ERYX]

So last year with the near same didn’t happen? This is some typical Eeyore Winnipeger crap. “We’re never good. We don’t deserve nice things. The sky is going to fall eventually, it always does. This 4th place team is nothing but disappointing, they suck, let’s rebuild.”

To the contrary, my point was precisely that last year DID happen, and that based on that, we know that we can't draw any conclusions about how the rest of the season will play out. So Edmonton off to another poor start, doesn't mean they'll be out of the playoffs, they could right the ship as with last season and make a deep run.

Likewise, Jets starting out 5-0 is too small of a sample size to tell us whether Jets have improved, got worse, or stayed the same.

I personally don't consider it Eeyore to be cautious about getting too excited after the Jets being knocked out in the first round 4-1 two years in a row now with much the same team. More of a "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me" sort of things than Eeyore IMO. For greater clarity, I've never said Jets will be a bubble team, I believe my prediction was #3 in Central in the pre-season prediction thread. I think they could finish anywhere 1-3 but what happens in the playoffs ... they have to prove they can get past the first round.

 

[Guardian17]

 

[Buffdog]

To the contrary, my point was precisely that last year DID happen, and that based on that, we know that we can't draw any conclusions about how the rest of the season will play out. So Edmonton off to another poor start, doesn't mean they'll be out of the playoffs, they could right the ship as with last season and make a deep run.

Likewise, Jets starting out 5-0 is too small of a sample size to tell us whether Jets have improved, got worse, or stayed the same.

I personally don't consider it Eeyore to be cautious about getting too excited after the Jets being knocked out in the first round 4-1 two years in a row now with much the same team. More of a "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me" sort of things than Eeyore IMO. For greater clarity, I've never said Jets will be a bubble team, I believe my prediction was #3 in Central in the pre-season prediction thread. I think they could finish anywhere 1-3 but what happens in the playoffs ... they have to prove they can get past the first round.

So a 5 game sample size is too small to draw conclusions from at the start of a season but big enough to draw conclusions from in the playoffs?

I'd love to see the mental gymnastics you performed to be OK with that contradiction

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Perfetti build up to decent top line speed, but it takes him a bit to get there. Same with Lardo

I specifically said "footspeed", but I probably should have said "quickness". Neither Cole nor Gabe are "slow" once they get moving

I should have been more specific too. Agree on "Lardo"
But I think Perfetti's footspeed has also improved. May not be a plus, but not a minus either. That is just based on noticing it a couple of times in 5 games.

 

[KingBogo]

So, it is up to the coach to deal with the shift length issue.

While some players get caught out too long guys who want to cycle tend to have longer shifts than players that are more up and down rushers. Bones talked about Ehlers last season and said he wasn’t as concerned about TOI for Ehlers as long as he got his shifts. I’m guessing Arniel is pretty much the same way.

 

[Eyeseeing]

Anything can happen - but based on the team's performance last year and the minimal changes I think it's pretty safe to assume this will not be a bubble team.

Someone actually suggested that without Hellebuyck we are a lottery team. That's insane.

Not a lottery team but without Helle a bubble team definitely.
Helle is elite and we need elite goaltending

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think the only time they get hemmed in because they stayed out too long is when they can't resist trying to rush the puck after already playing a full shift in the D-zone. Instead of dumping it deep they try to make some offense and it turns the other way and, oops! back in their zone again. Wheeler was the worst for those kinds of shifts - he needed to be escorted off the ice by security and HR

I see that. But I also see shifts where they spend almost the entire shift in the D zone.

Regardless of any real or potential lineup adjustments those guys need to get better at playing in their own end.

 

[Buffdog]

I should have been more specific too. Agree on "Lardo"
But I think Perfetti's footspeed has also improved. May not be a plus, but not a minus either. That is just based on noticing it a couple of times in 5 games.

To be honest, both of them look at little quicker (and faster) this season (in my opinion)

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

So a 5 game sample size is too small to draw conclusions from at the start of a season but big enough to draw conclusions from in the playoffs?

I'd love to see the mental gymnastics you performed to be OK with that contradiction

Haha, good debating point. But we all know the PO are the real season and we all know that early season is different. Some teams/players always start a little slowly.

We make more out of this than we probably should. I think it speaks well of the coaching staff getting them ready for the start. But being undefeated has a nice ring to it. Would we be as excited for a 5 game win streak in mid-season? 4 of the games at home, mostly weaker competition?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

While some players get caught out too long guys who want to cycle tend to have longer shifts than players that are more up and down rushers. Bones talked about Ehlers last season and said he wasn’t as concerned about TOI for Ehlers as long as he got his shifts. I’m guessing Arniel is pretty much the same way.

It isn't that Ehlers' shifts are too short. It is that Scheifele's/Connor's are too long. The style difference should not make that big a difference over an extended period.

We have been given a few numbers on other team's lines that do not go that long. Do you have a line that plays a similar style takes shifts that long?

 

[ERYX]

So a 5 game sample size is too small to draw conclusions from at the start of a season but big enough to draw conclusions from in the playoffs?

I'd love to see the mental gymnastics you performed to be OK with that contradiction

How is me saying that I'm "being cautious" and not getting my hopes up drawing conclusions. I've been saying the exact opposite of that, I'm not drawing any conclusions -- to spell it out more clearly, I'm saying 5 games doesn't tell me whether they will win a round of the playoffs finally or if they'll flame out again as in the last two seasons (arguable a 10-game sample size).

Why are you assuming that me saying I don't know how they'll do in the playoffs means I think they'll do badly?

Why are you so angry, amigo? It's early in the season, Jets are 5-0 ... nothing to be angry about. I think people are allowed to either plan the parade or not plan the parade as they prefer. Just personally I prefer nowadays to expect nothing and be happy if good happens rather than be disappointed if it doesn't.

 

[Buffdog]

Haha, good debating point. But we all know the PO are the real season and we all know that early season is different. Some teams/players always start a little slowly.

We make more out of this than we probably should. I think it speaks well of the coaching staff getting them ready for the start. But being undefeated has a nice ring to it. Would we be as excited for a 5 game win streak in mid-season? 4 of the games at home, mostly weaker competition?

For me, the main reason I'm loving the 5-0 is because of the lack of love the media was giving the Jets prior to the season

All those assholes swooning over the Oilers and Leafs and picking us to miss the playoffs, only to have to put us at the top of the first power rankings

 

[ERYX]

Excellent, thanks for sharing. I was hoping there would be some Rutger/Yager chants.

 

[Buffdog]

How is me saying that I'm "being cautious" and not getting my hopes up drawing conclusions. I've been saying the exact opposite of that, I'm not drawing any conclusions -- to spell it out more clearly, I'm saying 5 games doesn't tell me whether they will win a round of the playoffs finally or if they'll flame out again as in the last two seasons (arguable a 10-game sample size).

Why are you assuming that me saying I don't know how they'll do in the playoffs means I think they'll do badly?

Why are you so angry, amigo? It's early in the season, Jets are 5-0 ... nothing to be angry about. I think people are allowed to either plan the parade or not plan the parade as they prefer. Just personally I prefer nowadays to expect nothing and be happy if good happens rather than be disappointed if it doesn't.

I'm not angry.... I must have misunderstood your post