Post-Game Talk: Jets 6 - Devils 1

[Jets 31]

Keep posting them man, it’s informative for whoever wants to read them. Just ignore Guffman, he doesn’t speak for the forum as a whole. His ignorance towards analytical models is well documented.
Total dick move to personally attack you as well. Come on mods.

While we are at it how about no tank talk in a race to the playoffs thread , just saying.

 

[Guffman]

I used to post those WPGChief postgame stats takes as a matter of course in the PGTs until I had a number of folks object on the basis of not wanting to read the words of "some random internet poster."

I'll never forget when he posted his Corsi analysis after one game and said which lines/players did well/poorly even after he admitted that he didn't actually watch the game.

Until excel spreadsheets evolve so far as to discount what we actually see, making conclusions without actually watching a game is redonkulous.

 

[Eyeseeing]

While we are at it how about no tank talk in a race to the playoffs thread , just saying.

Shut out

 

[Guffman]

While we are at it how about no tank talk in a race to the playoffs thread , just saying.

Y'know that I'm all in for the Jets making the playoffs. My "tank" playoff race tracking posts are tongue-in-cheek meant to make a jest at people who wanted the Jets to fail so they can play some of our Moose players or think it will expedite a rebuild.

 

[WaveRaven]

What a bi-polar team. They played much better last night and were actually going to the net.

I for one love guffs tank posts they make me smile everytime. We should never be too serious in here.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yup, the win o meter is pure garbage in my opinion. It does not at all account for the score effects during the game.

and obviously a few other things as well.

 

[LowLefty]

Seems so strange that we scored 6 goals in the 5 games prior to Detroit, and then we score 12 in the last 2 games.

Doesn't seem that strange to me based on the way we played.

The guys were winning puck battles, gave the opposition very little room to get much of anything going, and added a lot more speed to their game.
I noticed all of those things and how they impacted the game.

We didn't approach the ozone like we were avoiding land mines, they battles hard for possession and won many key battles, they were disruption on the back check and made it hard for them to get much going off the rush, and we stuck to a fairly basic offensive game plan - enter the zone with speed, attack through the middle ice, and get to the net.

Those are all the things they struggled with earlier - and they are all the things Bones has been barking about.
It's not hard to realize that in this league, you need to work hard and fight for the hard ice to be successful - even if you have talent on the roster.

The challenge will be maintaining that game style regardless of who we play leading up to the PO's - this needs to be the template that work under in every game. And that has been the challenge with these Jets - sticking to the plan. Last 2 games were very encouraging.

Side note: I didn't recognize Wheels out there - he was battling and winning. He's the perfect example of a Jet player that can significantly ramp up his game when he wants to. I personally didn't see that coming - and that is especially encouraging.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

They have played the whole 3rd period in the Ducks zone, it will be a miracle if they win, best chance might be to take it to OT

Flames have a VERY soft sched the rest of the way. We will have to keep on winning.

 

[scelaton]

I am sorry you feel this way, But I thought WPGChief analysis was very informative and at no point did I claimed them as mine own views or opinions. I will stop posting them if it upset you or anyone else on this forum.

Just wanted to add my encouragement to you to continue reposting data that you think many here would find interesting.

The debate about analytics is so polarizing that I'll try to be more restrained than I otherwise would be. Suffice to say that people who best understand the limits of stats still welcome them and critique them carefully. Science is built on data and critical review. Some ultimately make the cut and some do not, but it's all grist for the mill. Bring it on.

As for Guffman decrying a poster for bringing useful information, I say this, in the words of kanadalainen: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

 

[Hobble]

It must be summer of 2020, because this team has miraculously found a Switch.

 

[R Zardo]

I'll never forget when he posted his Corsi analysis

I honestly believe some people would be happier if the Jets never came back.

 

[sipowicz]

What a bi-polar team. They played much better last night and were actually going to the net.

I for one love guffs tank posts they make me smile everytime. We should never be too serious in here.

You just know when the team wants to play better it does.

Question is when they don't, why?

 

[Buffdog]

and obviously a few other things as well.

Maybe they should weigh shot attempts less as a team falls farther behind and more for team as they create a bigger lead?

 

[Jets 31]

Flames have a VERY soft sched the rest of the way. We will have to keep on winning.

I don't know, some playoff bound teams might be resting players too so we might be better off playing a Colorado team.

 

[UFO]

Just in time to dry up in the next two games Jets have an uncanny ability of making an average or below average goalie (Markstrom) look like a Vezina candidate.

Let's hope we keep it up. Imagine all our stars finding their mojo right before the play offs. Add Vezina Hellboy to the mix. If that's the case, no one would want to face us.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I am sorry you feel this way, But I thought WPGChief analysis was very informative and at no point did I claimed them as mine own views or opinions. I will stop posting them if it upset you or anyone else on this forum.

No problem here. Keep it up.

 

[kanadalainen]

As for Guffman decrying a poster for bringing useful information, I say this, in the words of kanadalainen: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

Far too much. Far be it for any one of us to censor another member *when that member* is simply acting in good faith. This gives rise to the larger theme of the connection between the moral legitimacy of any one of "us" and the health of this board as a whole. In every example I can dream up, the collective places first wrt priority.

@Fatdrunk please keep Chief's tweets flowing, they definitely add to the discussion.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Maybe they should weigh shot attempts less as a team falls farther behind and more for team as they create a bigger lead?

and shots that go in should be worth more too. The result proved they were high danger shots.

I don't know, some playoff bound teams might be resting players too so we might be better off playing a Colorado team.

True. But on paper Flames sched looks VERY soft the rest of the way.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

I don't know, some playoff bound teams might be resting players too so we might be better off playing a Colorado team.

The thing about our schedule that hurts is that 4 out of our 5 remaining games are against teams either fighting to get into the post season, or fighting for home ice advantage during the playoffs. None of those 4 teams will be coasting. The other team, SJS, has our number. So a tough road to the post season for us.

 

[Jets 31]

You just know when the team wants to play better it does.

Question is when they don't, why?

Because Sip hasn't given them enough shit. Now they are feeling the wrath of Sip and playing better.

 

[Ducky10]

Player Discussion: - Winnipeg Jets Defense

Instead, we are going to rely on Beaulieu flopping around, making bad reads, not moving the puck well, etc. The Jets don't have a D good enough for a contender. At the very least, it's hard to imagine the young D won't outperform at least Beaulieu, and perhaps Poolman. What's the downside to...

forums.hfboards.com

<Poster name remove> was gushing over Petan and Dano. Sorry, that was ridiculous.

I remember the era when people would live and die on Corsi. Again, it was an incredibly ridiculous foundation to base wide sweeping conclusions on. What did Guffman say at the time? I like stats, even so-called advanced stats, but they are still at a primitive level at tracking what is going on on the ice and shouldn’t be relied on so heavily.

We have people spouting their stats and graphs, pretending that their opinions are well validated and often, it turns out to be pretty garbo in hindsight.

Player Discussion: - Winnipeg Jets Defense

Corsi was never the whole picture, just part of the picture... But it is definitely an important part of the picture for success: It's just not even disputed anywhere except on places like HFboards lol

forums.hfboards.com

What did Maurice say last month?

You’ll do your deep dives and your analytics and boy do they do a horseshit job of telling you what five guys do.

I never dismissed analytics. I dismiss the overreaching conclusions many of you make based on the primitive publicly available analytics. Big difference.

Look, you guys can preach about Petan or Dano being budding superstars, or how important Corsi is but when those guys fail, and when the top Corsi team doesn’t even make the playoffs, maybe you should reconsider how much stock you should be putting into these primitive analytics.

Maurice calls it horseshit. Hockey nerd Schiefele is dismissive of it. I guess I am the dinosaur by not selling out my opinions based on “horseshit” analytics.

Before those stats evolved, so many of you were preaching like Corsi was some super stat, quoting it after every game, crying that "woe be the Jets in the future because their Corsi will catch up to them". It was silly and yet, so many of you defended it at the time.

Cool, glad that simple stat is getting tweaked. It will still be viewed as a primitive stat years from now when more metrics are being tracked.



Nice cop out.

Carry on.

Cop out? Huh? It’s as if people don’t realize NHL teams use and value analytics in their decision making. You can dismiss it and mischaracterize it all you like, it’s a growing and evolving aspect of running a successful NHL franchise. People used to say the same things about baseball and now it guides just about everything a team does, right down to on the field. It’s taken a long time to get to that point but by constantly improving their process, gathering the data and learning what to interpret and how, they have a very useful tool. The same thing is happening in hockey whether you accept it or dismiss it or not.
People have always been afraid or rejected things they don’t understand. It shakes their belief in what they think they know, might not actually be the case. Personally I call that learning and growth. Analytics in hockey and baseball have given me a far broader understanding of what happens in a game and the value in it. It’s changed a lot of my inherent bias and given me a different perspective on what actually matters and what doesn’t.

 

[Eyeseeing]

The thing about our schedule that hurts is that 4 out of our 5 remaining games are against teams either fighting to get into the post season, or fighting for home ice advantage during the playoffs. None of those 4 teams will be coasting. The other team, SJS, has our number. So a tough road to the post season for us.

If this team had been a bit luckier on shooting percentage of late and playing better early in this slump we wouldn’t be talking about the remaining schedule.
The team had played well the last while but was very poor from mid December until Late January.
Now they have to find the resilience and resolve to push through these last games.
I hope they succeed.
Regardless of how it all shakes out we still need a new beginning next season with changes.
If we make the postseason I prefer to meet f*** Vegas over the Wild

 

[DRW204]

If this team had been a bit luckier on shooting percentage of late and playing better early in this slump we wouldn’t be talking about the remaining schedule.
The team had played well the last while but was very poor from mid December until Late January.
Now they have to find the resilience and resolve to push through these last games.
I hope they succeed.
Regardless of how it all shakes out we still need a new beginning next season with changes.
If we make the postseason I prefer to meet f*** Vegas over the Wild

add a 3rd string goalie with detroit too.

it's been a good 2 games to get some mojo for their goal scoring for sure, and ultimately get some team-confidence going forward. however, to me at least, the recent bigger sample of games imo still is to much to just completely change my mind that their recent goal scoring uptick is still here to stay.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Every post-game thread, he just links WPG Chief’s tweets and nothing else. Like I said before, if WPG Chief doesn’t want to post here, don’t bring his tweets here. Since he’s consistently ignored that, I have dealt with that and just put him on ignore. Moving on.

As for my supposed “ignorance towards analytical models”, yeah… I sure received an earful a few years ago when most of you were Corsi zealots. We sure don’t hear about Corsi anymore.

Clinging to simplistic mathematical models doesn’t make posters more informed. It makes you say silly things like… oh, I dunno… ”Perfetti is playing like a fourth liner” or “Petan has better goal scoring metrics than Laine” or “Marko Dano deserves top 6 position based on his advanced stat metrics”.

You don't need to like the analytics. You don't need to like WPG Chief, or his tweets. You don't need to like @Fatdrunk posting them here. You also don't need to put him on ignore either. That tends to mess up the thread. Just pass over the posts one by one. No need to comment on them. Just pass over and move on.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

No but it is very important. We are 2 points up and each of us have 5 games left. If we lose we still have the tie breaker.

but lose it and we have lost our cushion, except that we will have 1 game in hand by then. If Flames have already won Tues they will be ahead with an easier sched the rest of the way.

So it is not "win and we're in", it is not lose and we're out, but it is damn close to both.

Lets just call it a must win game, the real test.