Post-Game Talk: Jets 2 - Wild 1 in OT

[Whileee]

Fleury has been fine as a 3LD, but nothing special. Miller is also fine on 3RD. But I think Heinola could offer a bit more on offense than Fleury. Ultimately, I think the Jets need a better 2RD, and Salomonsson fits that role. It'll be interesting to see where Pionk ends up. My guess is that the Jets will re-sign him at a lower cap hit to play 3RD next season and beyond. I'd prefer Miller in that role, but the Jets seem to really like Pionk.

 

[voyageur]

Fleury has been fine as a 3LD, but nothing special. Miller is also fine on 3RD. But I think Heinola could offer a bit more on offense than Fleury. Ultimately, I think the Jets need a better 2RD, and Salomonsson fits that role. It'll be interesting to see where Pionk ends up. My guess is that the Jets will re-sign him at a lower cap hit to play 3RD next season and beyond. I'd prefer Miller in that role, but the Jets seem to really like Pionk.

I think the rule of thumb is you replace a PKer with a PKer. Fleury's replacement would be Stanley. Which is a negative tradeoff in speed. Miller's replacement on the PP would be Heinola, positive tradeoff in speed. It's possible Miller could take Fleury's PK minutes, but he'd likely be on his offside. Morrissey could start killing penalties more often, but I think he's #5, the replacement on that depth chart. Not regularly expending energy in the defensive end.

I'm interested to see if Lundmark and Salomonsson become the eventual replacements for Stanley or Heinola. A case of 2nd round picks developing past the point of 1st round picks. I'd say that Heinola is a player who has to prove something at this point to get in the lineup or stay in the lineup. The potential has got him to this point, but the results will dictate whether he sticks or becomes a tradeable asset.

If Samberg and Pionk have a strong year good chance both get re-signed long term. That might leave Salomonsson the 3rd pairing to grow into with the first being his ceiling.

Happy Thanksgiving

 

[Jets]

Fleury has been fine as a 3LD, but nothing special. Miller is also fine on 3RD. But I think Heinola could offer a bit more on offense than Fleury. Ultimately, I think the Jets need a better 2RD, and Salomonsson fits that role. It'll be interesting to see where Pionk ends up. My guess is that the Jets will re-sign him at a lower cap hit to play 3RD next season and beyond. I'd prefer Miller in that role, but the Jets seem to really like Pionk.

The sad part is there are now 4 LHD (Morrissey, Samberg, Heinola, Fleury) better than Logan Stanley on our team and yet as soon as he's healthy he'll be drawing back in.

 

[GeorgeJETson]

Plus I look better in yoga pants than either Stumbly or Sipowicz.

But likely not better than George - he knows how to work it!

 

[GeorgeJETson]

I completely forgot about the game, but at least I have it on PVR. Will try to watch it just as soon as I can get the remote back from Mrs. Jetson.

 

[gojetsgo]

The sad part is there are now 4 LHD (Morrissey, Samberg, Heinola, Fleury) better than Logan Stanley on our team and yet as soon as he's healthy he'll be drawing back in.

I don't get how you came to that conclusion... but go ahead and make yourself upset over something that hasn't happened...

 

[LowLefty]

The sad part is there are now 4 LHD (Morrissey, Samberg, Heinola, Fleury) better than Logan Stanley on our team and yet as soon as he's healthy he'll be drawing back in.

I've liked what I have seen from Fleury - whether he can keep it up is still to be determined
Ville as a better option over Stan is TBD - he'll need to get into the lineup at some point to prove it.
regardless, it's nice to have options - and at some point, they'll need to decide what the bottom pairing will be
Or they'll play the hot hand or shuffle based on the competition - I can see them going with 8 D until they sort it out.

 

[Jets 31]

Fleury has been fine as a 3LD, but nothing special. Miller is also fine on 3RD. But I think Heinola could offer a bit more on offense than Fleury. Ultimately, I think the Jets need a better 2RD, and Salomonsson fits that role. It'll be interesting to see where Pionk ends up. My guess is that the Jets will re-sign him at a lower cap hit to play 3RD next season and beyond. I'd prefer Miller in that role, but the Jets seem to really like Pionk.

Honestly the best thing for the Jets defense would be to have a good 2nd defenseman and be able to put DeMelo down to the 2nd or 3rd pairing. I like DeMelo but i don't think he's a top pairing defenseman.

 

[Jets 31]

I've liked what I have seen from Fleury - whether he can keep it up is still to be determined
Ville as a better option over Stan is TBD - he'll need to get into the lineup at some point to prove it.
regardless, it's nice to have options - and at some point, they'll need to decide what the bottom pairing will be
Or they'll play the hot hand or shuffle based on the competition - I can see them going with 8 D until they sort it out.

I didn't realize how big of a dude Fleury was until that interview with him between periods yesterday. Always good to have a little size and strength on defense.

 

[TS Quint]

I think the reason the "stats crew" hasn't changed their opinion on the Scheif - Connor pairing is that that pairing just hasn't performed well for six years in a row 5 on 5. That's a long time man. Should we really be acting like some frustrations aren't warranted?

All this about there being some crew that "hates" Scheif Connor and "loves" Ehlers is maybe people reading their own fandom into how other people operate, and kind of poisoning the well around here I think. If Scheif Connor pull their weight 5 on 5 I'm sure pretty much everyone will be happy, because they're obviously together regardless of what happens, so that would obviously be best for the team. But I just don't see how anyone can blame people for having doubts about it, or for having faith that Ehlers will come good, after everything we've seen for six seasons.

Maybe if you think things like goal % and shot share are some kind of voodoo then critics of our top line look more like they have some kind of personal vendetta, idk.

This is a team game, not a " I want my favorite player to get everything he needs to be the best player on the team" game.

When the Jets finish 4th in goal differential the Ehlers, Perfetti, Heionla fan clubs can all take a seat in the back because the TEAM is all that matters.

 

[scelaton]

I think the reason the "stats crew" hasn't changed their opinion on the Scheif - Connor pairing is that that pairing just hasn't performed well for six years in a row 5 on 5. That's a long time man. Should we really be acting like some frustrations aren't warranted?
All this about there being some crew that "hates" Scheif Connor and "loves" Ehlers is maybe people reading their own fandom into how other people operate, and kind of poisoning the well around here I think. If Scheif Connor pull their weight 5 on 5 I'm sure pretty much everyone will be happy, because they're obviously together regardless of what happens, so that would obviously be best for the team. But I just don't see how anyone can blame people for having doubts about it, or for having faith that Ehlers will come good, after everything we've seen for six seasons.

Maybe if you think things like goal % and shot share are some kind of voodoo then critics of our top line look more like they have some kind of personal vendetta, idk.

Agree with all of this--calling fans with stats-informed views 'nerds' and presuming they haven't watched or played enough hockey is just silly. It feels a bit like being back in the playground at recess, in grade school, after getting too high a mark in math. Ah, how I long for those good old days...

I haven't had a chance to watch much hockey this year, but it seems as if most of Scheifele and Connor's points have been on the PP, 3vs3 and 6vs5. If so, they should definitely continue to play together in those situations. And giving them another month to see if they can reverse their poor 5v5 record is not the worst idea. But, given the struggles of the second line, giving Connor a chance to give them a spark at at 5v5 makes sense. And it could be either Ehlers or Perfetti who switches with him (I'd prefer Perfetti).

'If it ain't broke don't fix it', is not a great way to approach professional anything. You always have to be looking under the surface for problems and at the numbers for insights that aren't visible to the naked eye(sorry anti-statsers).

I'm much less worried about Arniel in this area, as I suspect he would mostly agree with with this approach. The season is young, so we will see...

 

[Jack7222]

This is a team game, not a " I want my favorite player to get everything he needs to be the best player on the team" game.

When the Jets finish 4th in goal differential the Ehlers, Perfetti, Heionla fan clubs can all take a seat in the back because the TEAM is all that matters.

I mean that's kind of my point. We should be doing things to make the team better, like playing the best players more in proven combinations, regardless of any ruffled feathers it may cause.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I'd swap Names and Kupari before I did that.

And there hasn't been all that much criticism directed at the first line but they have the same number of goals at even strength as the ENP line. So swap Ehlers and Vilardi before that. Maybe kick start both lines. Easiest thing to try is just swapping Ehlers and Perfetti.

But the number of posts and crossbars the first line means they are much more likely to break out.
Second line seems toothless.

The sad part is there are now 4 LHD (Morrissey, Samberg, Heinola, Fleury) better than Logan Stanley on our team and yet as soon as he's healthy he'll be drawing back in.

Can we really say Heinola is better than anyone when he’s played less than10 games?

I mean that's kind of my point. We should be doing things to make the team better, like playing the best players more in proven combinations, regardless of any ruffled feathers it may cause.

Aren’t we doing that by giving Connor more minutes?

 

[KingBogo]

The sad part is there are now 4 LHD (Morrissey, Samberg, Heinola, Fleury) better than Logan Stanley on our team and yet as soon as he's healthy he'll be drawing back in.

Stanley was mostly a healthy scratch as the 7/8 last season, playing only 25 games. I think the team is comfortable with him as the PB guy.

 

[johnnyonthspot]

Agreed.

I wonder what happens when Stan and Heinola come back?

Fleury is probably the odd man out.

Heinola gets in.

Stanley plays pressbox 7D.

and Miller stays?

I agree that Fleury is the odd man out. I cannot see where Heinola fits in anymore but has no real trade value. Big Stan is a 5/6 guy but really an AhL'er put for being Chevy's project.
Miller is solid an upgrade over Schmidt

 

[DRW204]

Dylan C. and Fleury are both on 1x775k deals. Similar to Miller, don't think the Jets signed Stanley for 2x1.25m with the intent to sit in the PB. And then consider Stanley was used toward the tail end of last year and PO's.

 

[KingBogo]

Agree with all of this--calling fans with stats-informed views 'nerds' and presuming they haven't watched or played enough hockey is just silly. It feels a bit like being back in the playground at recess, in grade school, after getting too high a mark in math. Ah, how I long for those good old days...

I haven't had a chance to watch much hockey this year, but it seems as if most of Scheifele and Connor's points have been on the PP, 3vs3 and 6vs5. If so, they should definitely continue to play together in those situations. And giving them another month to see if they can reverse their poor 5v5 record is not the worst idea. But, given the struggles of the second line, giving Connor a chance to give them a spark at at 5v5 makes sense. And it could be either Ehlers or Perfetti who switches with him (I'd prefer Perfetti).

'If it ain't broke don't fix it', is not a great way to approach professional anything. You always have to be looking under the surface for problems and at the numbers for insights that aren't visible to the naked eye(sorry anti-statsers).

I'm much less worried about Arniel in this area, as I suspect he would mostly agree with with this approach. The season is young, so we will see...

My take, is it is a push back against those we don't seem to appreciate the pure visual enjoyment of elite offensive players. Scheifele and Connor basically just won us 2 hockey games with pure offensive skill, but for some that isn't good enough because those goals weren't 5-5. They have however scored 3 times at even strength, but that doesn't meet the test as it has to be 5-5. I was out at the lake for the weekend so I wasn't around here much, but more casual fans were buzzing about how exciting the wins were and talking about what great players Scheifele and Connor are. That is what will bring out fans. Winning hockey games with highlight reel goals.

 

[LowLefty]

Stanley was mostly a healthy scratch as the 7/8 last season, playing only 25 games. I think the team is comfortable with him as the PB guy.

Not so much later in the season - I think it's still up in the air

 

[LowLefty]

My take, is it is a push back against those we don't seem to appreciate the pure visual enjoyment of elite offensive players. Scheifele and Connor basically just won us 2 hockey games with pure offensive skill, but for some that isn't good enough because those goals weren't 5-5. They have however scored 3 times at even strength, but that doesn't meet the test as it has to be 5-5. I was out at the lake for the weekend so I wasn't around here much, but more casual fans were buzzing about how exciting the wins were and talking about what great players Scheifele and Connor are. That is what will bring out fans. Winning hockey games with highlight reel goals.

All true - they will dazzle at times and that's what brings me back.
But I also want to see the effort - without it, I get my fur up a bit.
I don't get into the 5v5 conversations - they've been covered at length many, many times

 

[KingBogo]

Not so much later in the season - I think it's still up in the air

Agreed. A lot will depend on how Heinola looks. He has had the longest roll out of any player I can remember. Fleury does seem to be a nice UFA signing by Chevy. Big steady guy that can move the puck and plays a nice safe game. And he sure doesn't mind blocking the odd shot.

All true - they will dazzle at times and that's what brings me back.
But I also want to see the effort - without it, I get my fur up a bit.
I don't get into the 5v5 conversations - they've been covered at length many, many times

So far this season I'd argue you are seeing the effort.

 

[Buffdog]

I mean that's kind of my point. We should be doing things to make the team better, like playing the best players more in proven combinations, regardless of any ruffled feathers it may cause.

Yeah, let's make our already undesirable market worse by refusing to let our stars play with each other

Maybe we can drive them out of town altogether. That would solve the "ruffled feathers" problem

Not sure what the past 3 games would have looked like without Schief and Helle

 

[Jets 31]

My take, is it is a push back against those we don't seem to appreciate the pure visual enjoyment of elite offensive players. Scheifele and Connor basically just won us 2 hockey games with pure offensive skill, but for some that isn't good enough because those goals weren't 5-5. They have however scored 3 times at even strength, but that doesn't meet the test as it has to be 5-5. I was out at the lake for the weekend so I wasn't around here much, but more casual fans were buzzing about how exciting the wins were and talking about what great players Scheifele and Connor are. That is what will bring out fans. Winning hockey games with highlight reel goals.

Great post, if we were 0 and 3 or getting totally outplayed sure change it up but right now we are playing pretty good and pretty much rolling 4 lines in the process. Honestly this season couldn't start much better, just need the 2nd line to start going but that's about it.

 

[LowLefty]

Agreed. A lot will depend on how Heinola looks. He has had the longest roll out of any player I can remember. Fleury does seem to be a nice UFA signing by Chevy. Big steady guy that can move the puck and plays a nice safe game. And he sure doesn't mind blocking the odd shot.


So far this season I'd argue you are seeing the effort.

I'd agree with the effort (for the most part) - or to put it another way, I won't complain too much.
Both Kyle and Mark can do more than dazzle if they want to - so far, it's been decent (and better than it has in the past).

More importantly, I think Arniel is OK with the effort up to this point - and he sees them for what they are - hi octane offense first players.
He continues to preach team defense which is the right thing to do with this team - but I don't think he will have the same standards for all players - which is fine because you won't get the same level of D from all of them. But they need to show they are supporting the system - at least to an extent. So far, so good.

 

[KingBogo]

Yeah, let's make our already undesirable market worse by refusing to let our stars play with each other

Maybe we can drive them out of town altogether. That would solve the "ruffled feathers" problem

Not sure what the past 3 games would have looked like without Schief and Helle

I think top players will always lobby who the want to play with. I remember Buff never being shy about saying who he wanted to play with. We are 1-2 with out Schiefele and Helly. They are our 2 of our 4 biggest stars along with Morrissey and Connor and these guys will all get the coach's ear.

 

[Buffdog]

I think top players will always lobby who the want to play with. I remember Buff never being shy about saying who he wanted to play with. We are 1-2 with out Schiefele and Helly. They are our 2 of our 4 biggest stars along with Morrissey and Connor and these guys will all get the coach's ear.

Anyone who has ever run a business and has had a rockstar employee with make certain concessions to make sure they don't lose them