Player Discussion Jesse Puljujärvi 4th Overall 2016 Draft.

[Mr Positive]

Yes. He goes to the AHL. He must. And if he tears it up there, then bring him up. Then and only then. No presumption of NHL-readiness. No "well he ripped it up in TC."

This is going to be a real test of the organization/new regime and whether or not they changed their spots. I get that Puljujarvi *might* be an exceptional player, on the level of a Hall or some other 1st overalls. But there's no need to presume it, no need to rely on 18 year olds burning a year of their ELC playing over their heads, no worry that he'll be embarrassed or ripped-off by being sent down.

Especially because he has AHL eligibility.

If he starts the year in the NHL, it's an organizational mistake. If he's up by November because he's destroying it with the Condors, fine. But anything before that is a mistake, no matter what he shows in TC.

well, it goes both ways. Not only can we call him up from the AHL at any time with no issue, but we can send him down with no issue either. If he tears it up in TC and then struggles in the NHL then we can send him down, no problem. With CHL prospects if you send them down you can't call them up after that game limit.

I also think there is a certain agreement that all players at training camp are part of. It is a competition, and it would be a waste of their time and a bit insulting otherwise. Puljujarvi should get a chance to play for the Oilers based on how he does, and so should other prospects like Yakimov, Laleggia, Khaira, etc.. I think most teams have examples of players like that.

 

[Raoul Duke]

If Puli had obvious skating issues, was being expected to be the #2C, had Eakins as a coach, had a bottom six that couldn't score worth a damn, top 6 forwards who can't back heck worth a damn...then I would totally agree. Start him off in the AHL 100%. Wonder if the Oilers would send some game tape of Drai as a rookie to the Jets to make sure they don't ice the best possible team and also chose to send their 18 year old Finn to the AHL based off Drai's struggles. :sarcasm

I said they were different players with different skill sets. There's nothing wrong with starting him in the AHL. There's nothing wrong with people thinking that would be a good plan.
Didn't even say that I agreed with it. Just that it's a legitimate viewpoint.
That's it.
If you believe anyone who thinks some games in the AHL would be good for him lacks hockey knowledge, have at it.

 

[Raoul Duke]

well, it goes both ways. Not only can we call him up from the AHL at any time with no issue, but we can send him down with no issue either. If he tears it up in TC and then struggles in the NHL then we can send him down, no problem. With CHL prospects if you send them down you can't call them up after that game limit.

I also think there is a certain agreement that all players at training camp are part of. It is a competition, and it would be a waste of their time and a bit insulting otherwise. Puljujarvi should get a chance to play for the Oilers based on how he does, and so should other prospects like Yakimov, Laleggia, Khaira, etc.. I think most teams have examples of players like that.

Definitely a good option to have.

 

[nabob]

I said they were different players with different skill sets. There's nothing wrong with starting him in the AHL. There's nothing wrong with people thinking that would be a good plan.
Didn't even say that I agreed with it. Just that it's a legitimate viewpoint.
That's it.
If you believe anyone who thinks some games in the AHL would be good for him lacks hockey knowledge, have at it.

Hahaha well I can obviously tell that you have zero intention of saying anything truthful because I never said such a thing. You continually misquote me as I have said multiple times that I have no issue with him being in the AHL, but I do have issue with it if it is done based off of Drai's rookie struggles and not Puli's own play/abilities (a viewpoint you said you support and feel it is "justified") so I will cease this discussion as your intentions are obvious. Cheers.

 

[Raoul Duke]

Hahaha well I can obviously tell that you have zero intention of saying anything truthful because I never said such a thing. You continually misquote me as I have said multiple times that I have no issue with him being in the AHL, but I do have issue with it if it is done based off of Drai's rookie struggles and not Puli's own play/abilities (a viewpoint you said you support and feel it is "justified") so I will cease this discussion as your intentions are obvious. Cheers.

No intentions. (I mean, what would they be?)
Don't think I've told any lies.
Definitely didn't say I supported the viewpoint your describing. In fact I said more than once it wasn't my view.
Clearly we're not on the same page.
Cheers back atcha!

 

[kelsier]

I don't know what's the obsession of sending this guy into the AHL even without giving him the usual 9 game stint to showcase himself. Puljujärvi is no Draisaitl, he doesn't need another gear to be able to stay up with the pace in the NHL. Someone with that amount of skill, added with huge size and elite skating should be just fine. Most scouts have openly stated that this guy is NHL ready. If he isn't, send him down and let him marinate, nothing lost. Lets not pass the verdict before he has played a few games atleast. Puljujärvi will be landing in a perfect situation in a team that basically has three top line centers, while the two of them are either a) borderline good first line center b) future "1b" type of a center, who needs a bit more experience.

That's an excellent starting point. One of the reasons I was so happy to see JP being drafted by the Oilers. Lets remember Puljujärvi could have gone first in some other draft years, maybe not half or even third of them but still.

 

[tinfish]

I don't know what's the obsession of sending this guy into the AHL even without giving him the usual 9 game stint to showcase himself. Puljujärvi is no Draisaitl, he doesn't need another gear to be able to stay up with the pace in the NHL. Someone with that amount of skill, added with huge size and elite skating should be just fine. Most scouts have openly stated that this guy is NHL ready. If he isn't, send him down and let him marinate, nothing lost. Lets not pass the verdict before he has played a few games atleast. Puljujärvi will be landing in a perfect situation in a team that basically has three top line centers, while the two of them are either a) borderline good first line center b) future "1b" type of a center, who needs a bit more experience.

That's an excellent starting point. One of the reasons I was so happy to see JP being drafted by the Oilers. Lets remember Puljujärvi could have gone first in some other draft years, maybe not half or even third of them but still.

This is the reality of the situation. Unfortunately if everyone agreed to this there'd be nothing to talk about.

He'll get his 9 games. No question about it. If he looks better than Yakupov, or Kassian in those games he'll be with the Oilers all year. I'd say he's got a pretty good chance.

 

[kelsier]

This is the reality of the situation. Unfortunately if everyone agreed to this there'd be nothing to talk about.

He'll get his 9 games. No question about it. If he looks better than Yakupov, or Kassian in those games he'll be with the Oilers all year. I'd say he's got a pretty good chance.

Indeed, and when you look at the RW depth the Oilers basically have Eberle as an accomplished and proven top six winger while the other two.. lets just say I would guess this being the last year of Yakupov to really start showing up? Kassian doesn't seem to belong to top six. I think Puljujärvi now is better than Yakupov, so I would honestly be surprised if he didn't end up wearing the Oilers jersey. Also if we take in count the simple fact of JP being a winger, he has less responsibility compared to playing down the middle. It's not a similar situation which Draisaitl was pushed into. I don't see his development destroyed by having played in the league at his first year. I have a lot of faith in Puljujärvi and he should fit right in.

The off-season talk is often no more than speculation which is rather meaningless. What else there is to do for diehard hockey fans though, ha.

 

[Fourier]

Yes. He goes to the AHL. He must. And if he tears it up there, then bring him up. Then and only then. No presumption of NHL-readiness. No "well he ripped it up in TC."

This is going to be a real test of the organization/new regime and whether or not they changed their spots. I get that Puljujarvi *might* be an exceptional player, on the level of a Hall or some other 1st overalls. But there's no need to presume it, no need to rely on 18 year olds burning a year of their ELC playing over their heads, no worry that he'll be embarrassed or ripped-off by being sent down.

Especially because he has AHL eligibility.

If he starts the year in the NHL, it's an organizational mistake. If he's up by November because he's destroying it with the Condors, fine. But anything before that is a mistake, no matter what he shows in TC.

Personally I think the whole "burning a year off the ELC thing" is too often over stated. Aside from the very unusual circumstances surrounding the expansion draft one could easily make the case that there are advantages in having Draisaitl's contract expire this year rather than in 2018. For top end players it is very similar to the "bridge" or "not to bridge" argument.

As others have said the option to send him down is always there so if all signs do end up pointing to him being ready why not see if that is really the case. If the belif is that all 18 year olds would be better off in the AHL, then that would mean that had he been eligible McDavid would also have been better off in the AHL. I don't believe this to be the case. So it really just becomes an individual decision.

 

[Raoul Duke]

Personally I think the whole "burning a year off the ELC thing" is too often over stated. Aside from the very unusual circumstances surrounding the expansion draft one could easily make the case that there are advantages in having Draisaitl's contract expire this year rather than in 2018. For top end players it is very similar to the "bridge" or "not to bridge" argument.

As others have said the option to send him down is always there so if all signs do end up pointing to him being ready why not see if that is really the case. If the belif is that all 18 year olds would be better off in the AHL, then that would mean that had he been eligible McDavid would also have been better off in the AHL. I don't believe this to be the case. So it really just becomes an individual decision.

Definitely an individual discussion, and if he looks great in preseason, I'm sure he'll get games.
Having the AHL as an option is great though.

 

[Bangers]

Personally I think the whole "burning a year off the ELC thing" is too often over stated. Aside from the very unusual circumstances surrounding the expansion draft one could easily make the case that there are advantages in having Draisaitl's contract expire this year rather than in 2018. For top end players it is very similar to the "bridge" or "not to bridge" argument.

As others have said the option to send him down is always there so if all signs do end up pointing to him being ready why not see if that is really the case. If the belif is that all 18 year olds would be better off in the AHL, then that would mean that had he been eligible McDavid would also have been better off in the AHL. I don't believe this to be the case. So it really just becomes an individual decision.

If a player is good enough to stick, then using a year of the their ELC doesn't really matter, but the way the Oilers threw Draisaitl in when he clearly wasn't ready and kept him around too long for the price of 1 year of cap control was a pretty bad trade off.

You can argue that it worked out ok in the end (because you don't really want to have to re-up Draisaitl and McDavid at the same time), but what if the team never won the golden ticket? The team would essentially be paying Leon more a year on, which would possibly have limited their ability to bring in someone that could have improved the team. Not even mentioning expansion draft protection (which could happen again another year or two down the road).

For Pulju, if he comes into camp and he's ready, give him 9 games. If he proves he's ready in those 9 games, keep him up. If he has trouble adjusting, it's better to keep that extra year of his ELC than force him through it.

 

[nabob]

Does he burn a year of his ELC if he spends the entire season in the AHL?

 

[McFlyingV]

Does he burn a year of his ELC if he spends the entire season in the AHL?

Not unless he plays 10 NHL games.

 

[Oilception]

Not unless he plays 10 NHL games.

He would still burn a year of his ELC even if we plays the whole year in the AHL no??

 

[Raoul Duke]

He would still burn a year of his ELC even if we plays the whole year in the AHL no??

Yes.

 

[BB88]

He would still burn a year of his ELC even if we plays the whole year in the AHL no??

Rantanen has 3 years left on his ELC.

 

[Draiskull]

http://oilers.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8479344

Oilers list him as 6'4. (And Niemeläinen is listed as 6'5.)
He has grown during the season and still may half an inch/inch.

I am really looking forward which kind of a player Jesse will be when he is in his prime. If he really is going to be 6'4/6'4.5 215-220 PWF he is something what Finland has never produced. Oh my... I think that he might be somewhere around 208-210 when he comes over, if his strenght training goes as planned. He really has long offseason to gain more power and muscle.

Patrik Laine
Right Wing -- shoots R
Born Apr 19 1998 -- Tampere, Finland
[18 yrs. ago]
Height 6.04 -- Weight 206 [193 cm/93 kg]

 

[McFlyingV]

He would still burn a year of his ELC even if we plays the whole year in the AHL no??

Yes.

No he wouldn't. 18 and 19 year olds contracts slide in the AHL.

See: Julius Honka

 

[McFlyingV]

Patrik Laine
Right Wing -- shoots R
Born Apr 19 1998 -- Tampere, Finland
[18 yrs. ago]
Height 6.04 -- Weight 206 [193 cm/93 kg]

I'd prefer Puljujarvi's speed on a power forward over Laine's if thats the style of play Pulju ends up playing.

 

[BB88]

I'd prefer Puljujarvi's speed on a power forward over Laine's if thats the style of play Pulju ends up playing.

I saw on the Lucic thread someone wondering of what Lucic could do to Puljus game.

I hope he starts mentoring him like he did with Pasta, he had a huge impact on Pasta and Lucic is the best powerforward there is to learn from.
Damm if he develops his physical side more his ceiling would be crazy high.
My fear with that though is that Lucic is too in love with the idea of playing with McDavid that he doesn't notice Pulju

Waiting for Lucic-McDavid-Pulju line to see ice.

 

[KMart27]

Whether he starts in the NHL or the AHL I would be shocked if he plays less than 10 games in the NHL this season. Less than 40 games maybe but less than 10 is very unlikely.

 

[Raoul Duke]

No he wouldn't. 18 and 19 year olds contracts slide in the AHL.

See: Julius Honka

Didn't realize that. Spoke too soon.
Thanks.

 

[nabob]

No he wouldn't. 18 and 19 year olds contracts slide in the AHL.

See: Julius Honka

So are people really suggesting that we keep him in the AHL to save a year on his ELC and not dress the best possible NHL roster?

Are we going to waste a year of McDavid and Drai's ELC by having a AHL player like Pak, Pitlick or Hamilton in the NHL instead of an extremely talented player who would have gone #1 overall in RNH, Yak, and possibly Hall's draft? Please say that mentality doesn't still exist here.

 

[nabob]

Didn't realize that. Spoke too soon.
Thanks.

I'm guessing at least half of us didn't. Myself included lol.

 

[Fourier]

If a player is good enough to stick, then using a year of the their ELC doesn't really matter, but the way the Oilers threw Draisaitl in when he clearly wasn't ready and kept him around too long for the price of 1 year of cap control was a pretty bad trade off.

You can argue that it worked out ok in the end (because you don't really want to have to re-up Draisaitl and McDavid at the same time), but what if the team never won the golden ticket? The team would essentially be paying Leon more a year on, which would possibly have limited their ability to bring in someone that could have improved the team. Not even mentioning expansion draft protection (which could happen again another year or two down the road).

For Pulju, if he comes into camp and he's ready, give him 9 games. If he proves he's ready in those 9 games, keep him up. If he has trouble adjusting, it's better to keep that extra year of his ELC than force him through it.

The Oilers getting McDavid is irrelevant to my comment. The point is that no one has a crystal ball to see how things will play out three years down the road. WRT the ELC, there are scenarios where it works to your advantage and scenarios where it does not. My guess is that it is probably 50-50 either way. In a away the bigger issue is losing a year towards free agency. But no one ever talks about that. However your point about a future expansion draft is relevant. Unfortunately, it is unlikely that even the teams know when that might happen since I would doubt it would occur within the next three years. Unless the Canadian dollar recovers substantially Quebec is unlikely and at this point no other city is even on the radar. So it would be at least two more years before the bid process could likely take place.