Player Discussion Jeremy Swayman: VII - As featured in Episode 3 of Amazon's "FACEOFF: Inside the NHL

[smithformeragent]

One could make the argument that we're beating a dead horse here.

So be it. Discuss, if you so choose. We'll keep all the Swayman talk contained to this thread.

If you have nothing meaningful to contribute to the conversation, move along.

We will not have this devolve into thread hijacking and flaming of other posters.

@Gee Wally

We have numerous deletions and more in here. We know tension and emotions are high.
But you folks must simply stop taking personal shots at each. Stay to topic.

If not we will be left with no choice other than adding thread bans.

Click to read more...

 

[DominicT]

So if he signs for 8/64, then wouldn't the AAV just be $8m the first year?

I'm not following how/why the cap hit goes up every day his pay goes down.

I've explained it in this thread.

Not sure I can explain it any better. @MarchysNoseKnows can try. His English is better than mine.

I thought if he signed for $8m per year, and didn't start playing until 1/4 of the season was gone, he only actually gets paid $6m this year. So even if the cap hit is retroactive to the first day of camp, shouldn't it just be an $8m hit?

Like, how is that an accurate measure of expenses if you pay him less in actual dollars but are charged more than AAV against the cap?

OR, are people saying that if Swayman wants $8m this year and doesn't sign until 1/4 of the season is gone, then he will really be signing for $10m in year 1 so he gets his full $8m.

It's not a one year deal. It's the value of the contract spread over the term. Because it's not a full season the cap is then higher in the first year, which lowers the remaining years

 

[Over the volcano]

2023-24
David Riddich
.921 2.15 3 shutouts
Just signed for 1 mil

Jeremy Swayman
.916 2.33 3 shutouts
Apparently changed his ask to just under 9mil

 

[PlayMakers]

Dammit, I thought I had it figured out. All I can come up with is that the contracts are valued at AAV regardless of actual money paid each year. So while Swayman is getting paid only for playing part of a season, the contract itself is still valued at 8 AAV and thus gets prorated.

View attachment 912734

Right, but $8 is the average annual value so how can you have a cap hit that's more than the average annual value? Especially when the player is actually getting less than annual value.

I've explained it in this thread.

I'll try to find that post.

Edit: Search doesn't work. I can see a list of your posts, but if I click on any of them, to see if that's the post where you describe it, I'm just taken to page 1, post 1 of this thread.

If anyone knows where this was explained, a link would be much appreciated.

 

[Saxon Eric]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1842620869211787513

 

[Dr Hook]

Right, but $8 is the average annual value so how can you have a cap hit that's more than the average annual value? Especially when the player is actually getting less than annual value.

In this case, the contract is not less than AAV because although the cap hit prorated is higher in the first year due to the proration, it is reduced in subsequents years so that it balances out. I guess it is written that way to reduce contract holdouts- something negotiated in the CBA giving teams and players incentive to get deals done prior to season start.

 

[Fingertools]

We do...but he's also being compensated for that in years 1-3 of a potential 8 year deal where he's getting paid more than what he's worth now!

If he performs as well as Saros and Sorokin years 1-3 he would be paid at market value, not underpaid.

 

[Dr Hook]

If he performs as well as Saros and Sorokin years 1-3 he would be paid at market value, not underpaid.

Every contract is a risk. Right now, Swayman is asking the Bruins to share more of that than he is willing to take on himself. *If* he performs as well as Saros and Sorokin years 1-3, the Bruins get decent value and if he is better, then and after, they get very good value. But what *if* he underperforms those guys? What if years 4-8 he declines (and we've all seen it happen)? The higher the contract the worse it is if he is not going to be the franchise goalie that he has given hints of becoming. He wants to be paid like a franchise guy without being that, and that is a lot of risk for the Bruins to take on.

 

[Over the volcano]

2023-24
Varlomov
.918 2.60 3 shutouts
2.75 per year

Jeremy Swayman
.916 2.33 3 shutouts
Insulted by a 4 year 6.5 per offer - deserves 9

 

[Mad-Marcus]

IF he performs.

 

[PlayMakers]

In this case, the contract is not less than AAV because although the cap hit prorated is higher in the first year due to the proration, it is reduced in subsequents years so that it balances out. I guess it is written that way to reduce contract holdouts- something negotiated in the CBA giving teams and players incentive to get deals done prior to season start.

I just found something on Twitter that explained the how...

So for every day Swayman sits out, he loses 1/192nd of his paycheck. I knew that much.

But for some reason unknown to me, the Bruins are penalized 6x that number against the cap. So if Swayman signs for $8m after sitting out 1 day, he loses $6k but the Bruins are charged with an extra $36k against the cap for this season.

Makes no sense to me but I guess it's just a penalty? A concession that was negotiated in the CBA to force a resolution. I understand that the Bruins get that fake money back by lowering the AAV over the remainder of the contract, just seems weird they would make it so punitive. I mean, by those numbers if he holds out for more than 3 weeks the Bruins won't be able to afford him at all, which punishes the player as much as the team.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

I love the laughing emoji here. Any time you make good point you get that because it;s 100% spot on.

Its amazing that Swayman had IMO a good, phenomenal and then good series with ok (2022) to good Boston teams (2024). He won one game against Carolina without McAvoy AND Lindholm. Then another without Lindholm. People make excuses for
Vasi in TB, they need to see the D in front of Swayman on 2 of those wins in 2022.
Then in 2024 he was the reason they beat Toronto and took the SC Champs to 6 with
no Bergeron, McAvoy not playing well and Pastrnak not producing.

Makes so much sense to beat up Swayman, not.

 

[Dr Hook]

I just found something on Twitter that explained the how...

So for every day Swayman sits out, he loses 1/192nd of his paycheck. I knew that much.

But for some reason unknown to me, the Bruins are penalized 6x that number against the cap. So if Swayman signs for $8m after sitting out 1 day, he loses $6k but the Bruins are charged with an extra $36k against the cap for this season.

Makes no sense to me but I guess it's just a penalty? A concession that was negotiated in the CBA. I understand that they get that fake money back by lowering the AAV over the remainder of the contract, just seems weird they would make it so punitive. I get they're trying to force a deal, but by those numbers if he holds out for more than 3 weeks the Bruins won't be able to afford him at all.

I wouldn't put it past the league to negotiate that in as their "brand" or product is not served by contract holdouts, and the PA fas well since it seems to benefit the players by nudging the clubs toward agreement.

 

[PlayMakers]

So really, the drop dead date isn't December 1st. I mean, at the point, even if Swayman signs for $8m per year the cap hit would be over $10m to the Bruins. They couldn't do that even with a 20 man roster.

The cap hit on November 1st would be $9m and even that leaves them no money for the cap, but they could do it with a skeleton crew roster.

And that's assuming Swayman signs for $8m, which he won't.

 

[xStanleyCupsFor]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1842603663111696833

Quite the collection of people that seem to know what his asks are since this all began

 

[UncleRico]

2023-24
Varlomov
.918 2.60 3 shutouts
2.75 per year

Jeremy Swayman
.916 2.33 3 shutouts
Insulted by a 4 year 6.5 per offer - deserves 9

Carey price
0 games
$10.5 per year

Swayman
44 games
Insulted by 4 years $6.5

Sorry I just wanted to continue the stupid comparisons

 

[xStanleyCupsFor]

So, maybe 8.25M gets it done. There is the 68M.

The Bruins shouldn't budge from 8M. That's already way more than fair and generous

 

[Demon Eyes]

2023-24
David Riddich
.921 2.15 3 shutouts
Just signed for 1 mil

Jeremy Swayman
.916 2.33 3 shutouts
Apparently changed his ask to just under 9mil

Dave should have hired a another agent.

 

[Dr Hook]

So really, the drop dead date isn't December 1st. I mean, at the point, even if Swayman signs for $8m per year the cap hit would be over $10m to the Bruins. They couldn't do that even with a 20 man roster.

The cap hit on November 1st would be $9m and even that leaves them no money for the cap, but they could do it with a skeleton crew roster.

And that's assuming Swayman signs for $8m, which he won't.

My guess is the Bruins will not push it even to November 1 bceause that puts them in a terrible spot. Now I am thinking of that rumor we heard that the internal club deadline was opening night, and that might not be far off the truth.

 

[Bruins4Lifer]

So really, the drop dead date isn't December 1st. I mean, at the point, even if Swayman signs for $8m per year the cap hit would be over $10m to the Bruins. They couldn't do that even with a 20 man roster.

The cap hit on November 1st would be $9m and even that leaves them no money for the cap, but they could do it with a skeleton crew roster.

And that's assuming Swayman signs for $8m, which he won't.

I just found something on Twitter that explained the how...

So for every day Swayman sits out, he loses 1/192nd of his paycheck. I knew that much.

But for some reason unknown to me, the Bruins are penalized 6x that number against the cap. So if Swayman signs for $8m after sitting out 1 day, he loses $6k but the Bruins are charged with an extra $36k against the cap for this season.

Makes no sense to me but I guess it's just a penalty? A concession that was negotiated in the CBA to force a resolution. I understand that the Bruins get that fake money back by lowering the AAV over the remainder of the contract, just seems weird they would make it so punitive. I mean, by those numbers if he holds out for more than 3 weeks the Bruins won't be able to afford him at all, which punishes the player as much as the team.

I don't think it should be looked at as a penalty to the Bruins. They are accruing cap space as the season goes along too, based on their average daily cap space. For the same reason that holding an average of $500k in cap space through the year until the the 3/4 mark of the season to bring in a ~$2M cap hit player, the Bruins are also accruing extra cap space with ~$8.6M unused each day. If the Bruins keep $8.6M in average daily cap space until Dec 1, they'd be able to take on just over $12M in a player cap hit on that date.

 

[DKH]

My guess is the Bruins will not push it even to November 1 bceause that puts them in a terrible spot. Now I am thinking of that rumor we heard that the internal club deadline was opening night, and that might not be far off the truth.

Monday at 5 pm

50 hours and ticking

If he’s not signed I believe he’s played his last game as a Bruins

 

[Mad-Marcus]

If he performs as well as Saros and Sorokin years 1-3 he would be paid at market value, not underpaid.

Its amazing that Swayman had IMO a good, phenomenal and then good series with ok (2022) to good Boston teams (2024). He won one game against Carolina without McAvoy AND Lindholm. Then another without Lindholm. People make excuses for
Vasi in TB, they need to see the D in front of Swayman on 2 of those wins in 2022.
Then in 2024 he was the reason they beat Toronto and took the SC Champs to 6 with
no Bergeron, McAvoy not playing well and Pastrnak not producing.

Makes so much sense to beat up Swayman, not.

Now if he did all that after playing 50 RS games, then he'd be worth his price, but he didn't.

I believe in Swayman, I don't believe in paying him on futures. Paying him 7-7.5M/year still a ~125% raise. If he wants 8 years, then he gets less. That's how it has always worked with long term contracts for youngin' on there (basically) bridge deal. The arbitration doesn't count as a bridge deal. NIME.
That's what, once again 7.5x4 30M, then go to UFA. If he's top 3, then the B's will give up the farm for him if he isn't carrying this foolish vendetta around and hell bent on leaving.
He'd be 29YO at FA. Be rich, not richest, prove to the world you're the best.

 

[SwayHeyKid]

2023-24
David Riddich
.921 2.15 3 shutouts
Just signed for 1 mil

Jeremy Swayman
.916 2.33 3 shutouts
Apparently changed his ask to just under 9mil

So do a one for one deal. Boston would prob have to add. An Ullmark Ritch combo would have been a nice regular season tandem. Should use Rittich as a comp in arbitration.

Quite the collection of people that seem to know what his asks are since this all began

Bruins leaking info everywhere.

I just found something on Twitter that explained the how...

So for every day Swayman sits out, he loses 1/192nd of his paycheck. I knew that much.

But for some reason unknown to me, the Bruins are penalized 6x that number against the cap. So if Swayman signs for $8m after sitting out 1 day, he loses $6k but the Bruins are charged with an extra $36k against the cap for this season.

Makes no sense to me but I guess it's just a penalty? A concession that was negotiated in the CBA to force a resolution. I understand that the Bruins get that fake money back by lowering the AAV over the remainder of the contract, just seems weird they would make it so punitive. I mean, by those numbers if he holds out for more than 3 weeks the Bruins won't be able to afford him at all, which punishes the player as much as the team.

I think Dom has explained this a few times already

 

[SwayHeyKid]

2023-24
Varlomov
.918 2.60 3 shutouts
2.75 per year

Jeremy Swayman
.916 2.33 3 shutouts
Insulted by a 4 year 6.5 per offer - deserves 9

Isles should trade Sorokin since they benched him for Varly in the play-offs.

 

[PlayMakers]

I don't think it should be looked at as a penalty to the Bruins. They are accruing cap space as the season goes along too, based on their average daily cap space. For the same reason that holding an average of $500k in cap space through the year until the the 3/4 mark of the season to bring in a ~$2M cap hit player, the Bruins are also accruing extra cap space with ~$8.6M unused each day. If the Bruins keep $8.6M in average daily cap space until Dec 1, they'd be able to take on just over $12M in a player cap hit on that date.

But isn't the adjusted cap hit more than they accrue?

 

[SwayHeyKid]

So if it's true the Bruins went to 8 and Swayman is at 8.7-8.8 the Bruins should just pay the loudmouth president tax, go to 8.5 and get it done by Monday afternoon.

This is finally ending peeps, shame on both if it doesn't happen.