Player Discussion Jeremy Swayman: VII - As featured in Episode 3 of Amazon's "FACEOFF: Inside the NHL

[smithformeragent]

One could make the argument that we're beating a dead horse here.

So be it. Discuss, if you so choose. We'll keep all the Swayman talk contained to this thread.

If you have nothing meaningful to contribute to the conversation, move along.

We will not have this devolve into thread hijacking and flaming of other posters.

@Gee Wally

We have numerous deletions and more in here. We know tension and emotions are high.
But you folks must simply stop taking personal shots at each. Stay to topic.

If not we will be left with no choice other than adding thread bans.

Click to read more...

 

[jgatie]

thanks. i knew the highest paid players what i am looking for is what is the absolute most i can pay a single player this year. is there a limit? i thought there was a % of the total cap they couldn't go over but i can find anything on it. I believe max term is 8 years but can't find anything at all on if there is a hard cap for a single player.

I don't believe there is a cap on individual salaries. Just a cap on the total for a team.

 

[BamBamCam]

So it has been roughly 96 hrs since the Bruins verbally offered 64 million. When are we going to here something? I believe if there isn't something done by Monday, it will come to a bitter end that both side will regret.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

I don't believe there is a cap on individual salaries. Just a cap on the total for a team.

Actually it’s 20% of the cap. So $17.6M this year or thereabouts

 

[LSCII]

I mean the season hasn't started so it's tracking pretty well I guess lol, but that he wasn't going to reach 20 isn't what you said, you said his one season was a anamoly which he repeated and proved you wrong

Takes quite the person to double down on being wrong, but hey you do you and keep on bragging about how you're usually right every once and a while

No, I said his one season at that point in time was anomalous when you compared it to the rest of his career and that it would be until he did it again. I then said he wasn’t likely to repeat that year based on his shooting percentage because it was significantly higher than it had ever been, which was also an anomaly. To give him full credit, which I also did last year after the season, he did beat it.

To bring this back to Swayman, since the framework of the Freddy argument was also his last extension, the difference is that Sway has been very consistent with his production year over year, while Freddy hadn’t been. He was bad, then had a good season out of nowhere, so the question was can he do it again. And he did. So now the question is can he break 20. I think he can and probably will but it’s fun to give you shit over it either way.

I think it’s a far bigger lock that sway improves than Freddy too. So if you want to say I said something, at least get it right. Lol

 

[BamBamCam]

I am actually looking around and can't find it. what is the max contract amount this year? Anybody know?

The CBA states that no player can earn more than 20% of the total salary cap. So that would make it 17.6 Million.

 

[GordonHowe]

Chiclets is entertaining but their "scoops" should be taken with a grain of salt. They are tapped in with players, but it leads to extremely biased leaks and commentary. Their commentary around Swayman has been completely ridiculous.

If you feel like a, see the full post, below.

 

[JAD]

I’ve already covered this straw man argument in this very thread. You don’t get into cap jail overpaying your top of the roster guys like Pasta, McAvoy, or Sway because those are longer term deals that end up saving you money later.

Where you get into cap issues is by taking on shitty contracts via trade like Peeke, or Korpisalo, and by overpaying bottom pairing defensemen like Zadorov.

That’s how you f*** your cap up.

I'm in agreement lock your core players up long term because their deals will look and fit better as time passes.
My concern was the Bruins have limited cap space This year.
8mil per yr , this year they could make it work. It would be tight but workable.
The higher the cap hit This year the less room they have to maneuver to fit their needs this year.
Go too high on the cap hit and they won't be able to do anything except ride with what they have and may or may not be able to add what they would like at the trade deadline.
Go even higher and the roster needs to change.
It's not next year I'm concerned about it's this year. They need to maintain a level of cap space to meet in season needs this year.

 

[Scotto74]

It’s around $17M

I am curious if there is anyone who is would be willing to go to that amount in the give him what he feels he deserves crowd.

we have heard rumors of what he is asking for but hypothetically what if he was asking for a max contract. Is there anyone who will still be saying pay him what he feels he deserves?

just curious. because if not then we all have a limit we all feel the same way we just all feel the same way once the dollars hit a different height.

I don't believe there is a cap on individual salaries. Just a cap on the total for a team.

really? wow thats nuts. i really thought there was a max % of the total team salary you could not go over for a single player. which is why people use the term "max contract" sometimes.

Maybe i missremember.

edit: others have chimed in and said it is 20% of the total team cap. so about 17.6M this year. so i am curious to my question above.

 

[EverettMike]

I would very much like for the Bruins to make their final best offer and/or for Jeremy Swayman to ask for a trade so we can move on.

 

[AngryMilkcrates]

 

[whatsbruin]

I'm with you here, just get it done, what's an extra 250-500k when it comes to making a core guy happy?

The problem is, then the next goalie (goalie A) uses Swaymans salary as a comparable , and has the $250,000 extra in the comp. Now goalie A gets an extra $250,000. Now Goalie B comes along, and uses Goalie A as a comp, and has 1/2 million "extra" to use as his comp. spiraling salaries.

 

[NDiesel]

No, I said his one season at that point in time was anomalous when you compared it to the rest of his career and that it would be until he did it again. I then said he wasn’t likely to repeat that year based on his shooting percentage because it was significantly higher than it had ever been, which was also an anomaly. To give him full credit, which I also did last year after the season, he did beat it.

To bring this back to Swayman, since the framework of the Freddy argument was also his last extension, the difference is that Sway has been very consistent with his production year over year, while Freddy hadn’t been. He was bad, then had a good season out of nowhere, so the question was can he do it again. And he did. So now the question is can he break 20. I think he can and probably will but it’s fun to give you shit over it either way.

I think it’s a far bigger lock that sway improves than Freddy too. So if you want to say I said something, at least get it right. Lol

Re: the bolded right back at you haha

In fairness to me getting what you said wrong, I usually can't even get what I said right on most days, I'm sure my takes on here contradict each other on a monthly basis lol

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

I'm in agreement lock your core players up long term because their deals will look and fit better as time passes.
My concern was the Bruins have limited cap space This year.
8mil per yr , this year they could make it work. It would be tight but workable.
The higher the cap hit This year the less room they have to maneuver to fit their needs this year.
Go too high on the cap hit and they won't be able to do anything except ride with what they have and may or may not be able to add what they would like at the trade deadline.
Go even higher and the roster needs to change.
It's not next year I'm concerned about it's this year. They need to maintain a level of cap space to meet in season needs this year.

maybe they should've thought of that before giving 7m to Lindholm, 5m to Zadorov and taking back Korpisalo's 3m in the Ullmark deal

 

[NDiesel]

The problem is, then the next goalie (goalie A) uses Swaymans salary as a comparable , and has the $250,000 extra in the comp. Now goalie A gets an extra $250,000. Now Goalie B comes along, and uses Goalie A as a comp, and has 1/2 million "extra" to use as his comp. spiraling salaries.

Sounds like another team's problem, we'll have our guy for 8 years

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

The problem is, then the next goalie (goalie A) uses Swaymans salary as a comparable , and has the $250,000 extra in the comp. Now goalie A gets an extra $250,000. Now Goalie B comes along, and uses Goalie A as a comp, and has 1/2 million "extra" to use as his comp. spiraling salaries.

average salary goes up over time? shocking development there

 

[Bruins4Lifer]

I don't think they need to, so "best course of action" is too strong. I think 8x8 or 8x7.8m is more than fair. I would bump it a little bit higher and give a hard deadline to try to get this done, despite my reservations. My justification here is the $250,000-$500,000 increase per year is not going to kill us given the salary cap increases that are expected over the next 5 years. At this point, we are already overpaying him if he signs 8x8, which it sounds like he's not going to do.

I have some doubts that giving an increased offer of 8.25 or 8.5 right now and imposing any kind of deadline with it that is earlier than Dec 1 is going to get a deal done, unless the offer is the $9.5M Swayman wants right now.

Maybe that changes next week as the season starts and there's still no deal, but I keep thinking of how Gross took the Leafs all the way to the Dec 1 deadline with Nylander, and think he and Swayman are pretty content with doing that again here.

 

[Lobster57]

I just hope Letorneau is worth all this and isn't Joe Colbourne 2.0

 

[Over the volcano]

More than fair offer on the table - the rest is up to Swayman.

 

[EverettMike]

Think the next couple hours could be very telling. Prime real estate to announce a trade demand.

 

[nORRis8]

In fairness he did have a very good playoff since this article came out

He did.
I cannot help to imagine what he'd be wanting if we'd won the the SC and Swayman won the Conn Smythe
14 million?

 

[Scotto74]

I’ve already covered this straw man argument in this very thread. You don’t get into cap jail overpaying your top of the roster guys like Pasta, McAvoy, or Sway because those are longer term deals that end up saving you money later.

Where you get into cap issues is by taking on shitty contracts via trade like Peeke, or Korpisalo, and by overpaying bottom pairing defensemen like Zadorov.

That’s how you f*** your cap up.

some truth to that but not always the case.

1. 2022 the flames signed Johathan Huberdeau to 8 years 10.5M cap hit per year. 5 years leading up to the contract had goals of 27, 30, 23, 20 (Covid), 30. he then signed and the last two years has goal totals of 15 in 2022 and 12 in 2023. if his production stays on this trend they have a 10.5M cap hit until 2031 for locking up a core player to a long term deal.

That trend will not end up saving them money later for locking up a core player long term.

2. 2022 Oilers sign goalie Jack Campbell to a 5 year $25M contract. was supposed to be their long term goalie fix. Played 4 seasons with LA and TO before signing with the oilers. Had about 133 of NHL games exp.
year games SV%
2018 31 .928
2019 26 .904
2020 22 .921
2021 49 .914

boy those number of games and good save % reminds me of another young goalie i know.

after signing with the oil he played 36 games in 2022 with a save % of .888 then in 2023 5 games .873 was then bought out in 2023 and is now dead cap space of 1.5M or more through 2030.

That didn't end up saving them money later for locking up a core player long term.

3. Capitals Tom Wilson signed 7 years 45.5M or $6.5M hit a year can't get 20 gaols anymore and is a -13 and -19 last two years singed though 2031-2032 will be 37.

That has not and will not end up saving them money later for locking up a core player long term.

4. Sean Couturier Philly signed 8 years 62M in 2021 $7.75 cap hit until 2030-2031
after two years of 30+ goals then another 22 goals and 18 now had 6 and 11 in the last two years with a -10, -6 and -4 rating.

That has not and will not end up saving them money later for locking up a core player long term.

5. zach parise signed 13 year 98M will MIN $7.5 cap hit. 9 years later bought out 2021. dead cap space by year
2021-2022 - $2.4M
2022-2023 - $6.4M
2023-2024 - $7.4M
2024-2025 - $7.4M

similar for suter in min. Both thought to be the core locked up long term both caused Cap hell and did not save the team money later.

for every long term deal that works out to save the team money there is an example of one that didn't and cost the team long term dead cap space.

just because you feel a guy is core and will stay playing at the same level for 8+ years does not mean it will always work out that way. I hope Pasta & Mac stay at the level although to be honest Mac has me a bit nervous after his playoffs last year.

How many long term contracts are you willing to gamble on at the same time?

what if like Min two of them drop totally off at the same time and your only option is to buy them out and pay dead cap space for the next 10 years. You can't ASSume it will always save the team cap space long term unless your batting 1000 on every long term deal you give out.

 

[CrownofThornton]

I love Swayman, but he’s not bigger than the Bruins.

 

[JAD]

We are no where close to Swayman's asking price

 

[Mainehockey33]

some truth to that but not always the case.

1. 2022 the flames signed Johathan Huberdeau to 8 years 10.5M cap hit per year. 5 years leading up to the contract had goals of 27, 30, 23, 20 (Covid), 30. he then signed and the last two years has goal totals of 15 in 2022 and 12 in 2023. if his production stays on this trend they have a 10.5M cap hit until 2031 for locking up a core player to a long term deal.

That trend will not end up saving them money later for locking up a core player long term.

2. 2022 Oilers sign goalie Jack Campbell to a 5 year $25M contract. was supposed to be their long term goalie fix. Played 4 seasons with LA and TO before signing with the oilers. Had about 133 of NHL games exp.
year games SV%
2018 31 .928
2019 26 .904
2020 22 .921
2021 49 .914

boy those number of games and good save % reminds me of another young goalie i know.

after signing with the oil he played 36 games in 2022 with a save % of .888 then in 2023 5 games .873 was then bought out in 2023 and is now dead cap space of 1.5M or more through 2030.

That didn't end up saving them money later for locking up a core player long term.

3. Capitals Tom Wilson signed 7 years 45.5M or $6.5M hit a year can't get 20 gaols anymore and is a -13 and -19 last two years singed though 2031-2032 will be 37.

That has not and will not end up saving them money later for locking up a core player long term.

4. Sean Couturier Philly signed 8 years 62M in 2021 $7.75 cap hit until 2030-2031
after two years of 30+ goals then another 22 goals and 18 now had 6 and 11 in the last two years with a -10, -6 and -4 rating.

That has not and will not end up saving them money later for locking up a core player long term.

5. zach parise signed 13 year 98M will MIN $7.5 cap hit. 9 years later bought out 2021. dead cap space by year
2021-2022 - $2.4M
2022-2023 - $6.4M
2023-2024 - $7.4M
2024-2025 - $7.4M

similar for suter in min. Both thought to be the core locked up long term both caused Cap hell and did not save the team money later.

for every long term deal that works out to save the team money there is an example of one that didn't and cost the team long term dead cap space.

just because you feel a guy is core and will stay playing at the same level for 8+ years does not mean it will always work out that way. I hope Pasta & Mac stay at the level although to be honest Mac has me a bit nervous after his playoffs last year.

How many long term contracts are you willing to gamble on at the same time?

what if like Min two of them drop totally off at the same time and your only option is to buy them out and pay dead cap space for the next 10 years. You can't ASSume it will always save the team cap space long term unless you’re batting 1000 on every long term deal you give out.

In my view with his resume you either take less for the security of 8 years or take a shorter term contract to bet on yourself and possibly take advantage of the rising cap.

 

[Over the volcano]

We are no where close to Swayman's asking price

I heard he thought that meme was a slap in the face- totally unfair to Gross as well.