Player Discussion Jeremy Swayman: VII - As featured in Episode 3 of Amazon's "FACEOFF: Inside the NHL

[smithformeragent]

One could make the argument that we're beating a dead horse here.

So be it. Discuss, if you so choose. We'll keep all the Swayman talk contained to this thread.

If you have nothing meaningful to contribute to the conversation, move along.

We will not have this devolve into thread hijacking and flaming of other posters.

@Gee Wally

We have numerous deletions and more in here. We know tension and emotions are high.
But you folks must simply stop taking personal shots at each. Stay to topic.

If not we will be left with no choice other than adding thread bans.

Click to read more...

 

[LiseL]

Like I’ve pointed out plenty of times here, the cap issues come not from signing your best players to fair market deals, but from extending yourself on overpayments to bottom of the roster players. In this case, Korpisalo, Peeke, and Zadorov jump right to the top of the list.

I’m mean shit, would you rather overpay your starting goalie by a little bit or grossly overpay your bottom pairing dmen and your back up goalie? It’s foolhardy to be arguing over a small amount of money for an impact player when you’re paying your bottom pairing nearly $8 mill a year collectively.

Oops, selected post in error.

 

[Demon Eyes]

It's not over till it's over. Neely held out himself and look at him now, Bruins president.

 

[OConnellsProtege]

After thinking about it for a bit and seeing how all of this has unfolded the past few days... Swayman is giving me Subban vibes. Great at his craft, but his priority appears to be in his name/brand. I could see the goalie hug thing ending up on a cereal box if this was the 90's. I could be wrong and hope I am, but I just can't get that thought out of my head lol.

 

[LiseL]

“Hearing you’re not worthy of what you think you’re worthy of” Wow. Isn’t that what every player hears in arbitration hearings?

It seems he has a big problem when management doesn't agree that he's worth what he thinks he's worth. Seems to be a recurring theme. The first time, he's ignoring the forum/circumstances involved: he wants to be paid more. Bruins want to pay less. As you stated, what did he think would happen? The Bruins would just fold and give him what he wants? If that would've been the case, they would've negotiated the contract before the hearing.

In this circumstance, again, management doesn't agree with what he considers his worth. He doesn't seem to understand that when a team signs a RFA to term, the overall amount will be less that what he might get overall with multiple contracts going forward, but that's because if he doesn't remain healthy or his play declines, they're still on the hook, he still gets paid. Or maybe he "knows" he'll be worth at least $13M by the end of that contract, because you know, he knows what he's worth. Whether he's able to play and/or play well for the entire term, well, that doesn't matter...he's worth it.

For a guy who seems so confident, his self-esteem seems to be easily bruised by contract negotiations that don't go his way.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

It seems he has a big problem when management doesn't agree that he's worth what he thinks he's worth. Seems to be a recurring theme. The first time, he's ignoring the forum/circumstances involved: he wants to be paid more. Bruins want to pay less. As you stated, what did he think would happen? The Bruins would just fold and give him what he wants? If that would've been the case, they would've negotiated the contract before the hearing.

In this circumstance, again, management doesn't agree with what he considers his worth. He doesn't seem to understand that when a team signs a RFA to term, the overall amount will be less that what he might get overall with multiple contracts going forward, but that's because if he doesn't remain healthy or his play declines, they're still on the hook, he still gets paid. Or maybe he "knows" he'll be worth at least $13M by the end of that contract, because you know, he knows what he's worth. Whether he's able to play and/or play well for the entire term, well, that doesn't matter...he's worth it.

For a guy who seems so confident, his self-esteem seems to be easily bruised by contract negotiations that don't go his way.

He’s being a bit of a baby yes. Great goalie. But bit of a baby right now.

 

[LiseL]

A lot of the "Swayman is being a baby" crowd are being seriously dishonest in here.

Stop acting like if you had a salary negotiation with your employer and they turned every possible thing they could into a negative to justify paying you less that in the next negotiation you'd hold no grudge and happily accept whatever they offered you and wouldn't push for all the pay you could.

And no, him being a pro athlete doesnt make it different. At the end of the day its just an employee/employer dispute

Who in the workplace could demand mediation (the equivalent of arbitration) if they didn't agree with the raise being offered?

Why did he want an arbitration? Did he think management would just roll over and he would win? Hadn't anyone explained to him how these things work? One side is trying to get a bigger raise, the other side is trying to get it to the # they want to pay so some things may be said by management to win the judgement. Didn't he know that's why most players try to avoid it?

Also, why is he taking everything they said literally, never considering it was a negotiating tactic? Is he that naive? If yes, was his agent too? Didn't the fact they traded Ullmark tell him they valued him? Didn't the latest contract offer show they were willing to sign him long-term at a fair price, not maximum price, as they would be assuming all of the risk if the contract doesn't age well but he would be guaranteed that money?

Just realized I asked a lots of questions. Feels like a game of Jeopardy but without the answers.

 

[LiseL]

Yes he should get the NHL minimum, maybe 800K instead of 775, but in no way should be be over million. Basically he should be less expensive than Lysell

I don't think they can offer him less that what he made last year unless he accepts it. The Sens had a similar situation this off-season. Brannstrom, a RFA D, was due for a $2.1M qualifying offer. Ottawa didn't qualify him as there weren't prepared to pay him that much. It was the previous GM who gave him the $2M contract the year before. Decent player but not worth that much: too small to defend properly, not talented enough to produce offensively. So he walked as an UFA and signed with the Avs for a little more than league minimum. In this case at least, the player was worth less on the market than he thought. No comparison to Swayman, just pointing out the obvious.

 

[Ben Grimm]

I don't think they can offer him less that what he made last year unless he accepts it. ...

This sentence is so poorly written it contradicts itself and therefore doesn't make sense. I'm an English professor.

 

[LiseL]

My thinking was that if the arbitration numbers were less, then Swayman would have accepted the deal they were offering

But now that I think more about it... that makes sense to do as a GM. So now I'm thinking you are right and it's likely that the arbitration numbers were lower, makes more strategic sense. Either Swayman takes your offer and the case isn't heard... or you get halfway between your low arbitration number and Sway's high arbitration number.

You are right

An earlier poster, many threads ago posted that the Bruins offer before arbitration was in the mid $3M range, Swayman's # was in the $4M range. At arbitration, the Bruins offer now started with a $2, not sure if Swayman's offer started with a 4 or 5. The Bruins original offer was basically most of the cap room they had left so it's evident they wanted the amount to be in the $3s. This wasn't their 1st rodeo so they knew what had to be done to arrive at that #. Lower the offer, present comparables of average goaltenders, then list some of his shortcomings.

I'm not sure if that earlier post was an article or the poster typed it in himself. Too long ago, I don't remember lol.

What I find so astonishing is that Swayman doesn't seem to recognize this was a negotiating tactic, nothing more. They really wanted that final # to start with a 3 to not go over the cap, so they did what they had to do. They certainly showed him how they really feel by trading Ullmark, making him the starter and offering him a fair long-term deal. So why is he still so upset about it?

 

[Saxon Eric]

I made it home safely, goodnight!

 

[LiseL]

Swayman got 3.4m in arbitration. His number was likely in the 4s. The B's was likely in the 2s... which is what Peake makes. So the Bruins thought (for 1year) that Swayman was worth about the same.

That's why one of their comps was Dan Vladar who makes..... in the 2s. That's what it has to do with it.

And everyone knows that arbitrators tend to split the difference, which they did. Just because the Bruins presented the offer/comparables in the 2's doesn't mean that's what they thought of him, it's how arbitration works. If the team was prepared to give Swayman what he wanted, they would have negotiated a contract before the hearing. Obviously, they didn't want to go over their cap limit and deal with cuts or changes to the roster so they provided lower comps and a list of shortcomings on why he wasn't worth more. If the Bruins truly thought that of him, they wouldn't have traded Ullmark, make him the starter and offer him a good long-term deal. It's hard to believe he hasn't figured out that what happened last year was simply negotiating tactics, it wasn't personal. Don't the players keep saying, it's just business when a player gets traded, a coach is changed, etc. Well, this is part of the business too.