Player Discussion Jeremy Swayman -VI President Cam Speaks: Monty, Donny, & Charlie too!

[Gee Wally]

Mod edit: @smithformeragent

As this situation continues to drag on:

Please keep the conversation pertinent to the topic and avoid making it personal.

Debate about the management of the salary cap and the performance of the general manager fits into the context of the conversation, but we’ll avoid dividing fans into camps like “pro-player” and “team apologist”.

Thanks!

Continue if you must. No flaming!

Click to read more...

 

[Mad-Marcus]

So here's the rub with the anti-pay-Sway crowd ... let's say he gets a $7.5 4 yr deal, shows he can be a #1 with no workload restrictions, goes deep in every playoff etc. Now it's 4 yrs later, and he's ready as a UFA to cash in to the HIGHEST BIDDER. Are you guys ok with losing him? Cause if he gets $10M, or $11M or more from someone and you match it's not going to help fill the rest of the roster anymore than it will today giving him $9.5M for 8 yrs - will it? And you STILL can lose him. Ready to take that chance?

As I posted previously, you would know going into the 3rd year if you want to aggressively extend him for big $$. If he wants to leave, that his prerogative, then he gets traded in year 4. If he wants to be here, then it shouldn't be a problem. 7.5M per is not an insult
Look at what the B's paid Pasta and Mac, they won't have a problem paying him if he has removed all doubt.

In no way am I anti-pay Sway. He just isn't up for an 8-year top money contract yet.
You can't have term and top $ with a limited resume. It doesn't work like that. You need a body of work that shows you can hold up. He has established he has top end talent, he needs to establish, at the NHL level that he can handle a Helleybuck/Shestrkin workload

 

[Mad-Marcus]

If Korpi is as bad as some of you think, Sway man will need to play 55-65 games of the regular season. Has he ever played that much?..............................NO!

Considering his play took a dive after the AS game, there should be concern.

 

[TD Charlie]

There are multi-level bridge deals throughout a professional life cycle. Last year, Swayman bridged from an ELC to a next level deal following a very good 37 game showing in 2022-23. I don't see that as THE bridge deal.

Now the guy is presumably looking for top 5 goalie money with just 132 games of NHL experience, trying to get what guys with 500+ NHL games, cups and Vezinas are getting paid. No way.

If I'm Sweeney, I offer him a 1-year 2nd level bridge deal for $7M this season and tell him, "sustain your performance in the regular season with ~ 55 games and a solid playoff and we'll make the necessary cap moves to give you top 5 money + term next season". With the top 6 d-corps the B's will have out there this season, I gladly accept that gamble if I'm Swayman.

I want Swayman on this team ASAP and people are bitching about Sweeney this, Sweeney that but the reality is no one could have foresaw his demands, nor should they pay Swayman for unproven, future performance. I've always defended salary squabbles with guys like Bourque, Neely, Allison, etc. during the frugal years but even though the Bruins are continuously spending to the cap limit, no way I give Swayman a long-term deal with top 5 type goalie AAV deal without 1 full season as a 55+ game starter.

And if I’m Swayman, I tell Don Sweeney in no uncertain terms that I really don’t trust anything he says at this point. Show me the money, or don’t.

 

[Pia8988]

What facts did you state exactly after saying let's get to actual facts?

Every single good bruin rfa took till after training camp to get a good deal is a fantasy not a fact.

Facts are you said they decided to move on from ullmark after the deadline and they should have tested swayman to see if he could carry the workload. Fact is his numbers after the deadline were terrible and he proved at that point he couldn’t. Yet the bruins still gave him the playoffs to prove it and he played great.

When exactly did you want them to let him carry the workload? All season and bench the vezina winner?

How do you know exactly when they decided to move on from ullmark? Do you think it was at the start of the season? If thats the case i want everyone fired because swayman had what 60-70 games in his career at that point. If you decided that benching a vezina winner to see how a guy with less then a season’s worth of games as experience can do you should have nothing to do with running an NHL team.

What if it Was decided At the deadline? I posted swaymans numbers after the deadline and he kinda sucked. Down that stretch he didnt earn an AHL contract nevermind the highest paid NHL contract.


Again i like swayman, i feel he has great potential and i want him to be a bruin. but he has not earned being the top paid goalie in the league at this point.

You obviously feel different and that is fine but i have seen zero facts to back up your point. You list some RFA holdouts which you can do for every team and say every good bruins has to hold out to get a contract. what about
Bergeron
Kreici
Lucic
Marchand
Or are they not as good as your list? My list of good bruins that never held out will be a lot longer than yours that did. So saying “Every” good player is again not even close to an actual fact.

There are countless articles about RFA holdouts and in a lot the bruins are not even mentioned because its not a bruins management thing its an nhl thing


This is not a case of the bruins suck at management and always have holdouts. This is an NHL standard based on the current rules for Restricted Free Agents.

But we are getting off topic.

Topic is has swaymen earned the right to be paid as the top two goaltenders in the nhl? I say no and will back that up with actual stats and comparisons to other players and his performance to date. You say yes with no actual facts and comparisons to support your argument other than to rant on how bruins management sucks.

Agree to disagree

You state that Swayman was given the opportunity to run with being a starter. That was never the case at any point in the entire season. Monty and Boston decided from day 1 the goalies were going to alternate starts regardless of results. They even planned on doing it in the playoffs until Swayman won game 3 after Ullmark losing game 2. The only chance Swayman got to be the starter he did actually run with it and played some of his best hockey to date.

 

[Scotto74]

As I posted previously, you would know going into the 3rd year if you want to aggressively extend him for big $$. If he wants to leave, that his prerogative, then he gets traded in year 4. If he wants to be here, then it shouldn't be a problem. 7.5M per is not an insult
Look at what the B's paid Pasta and Mac, they won't have a problem paying him if he has removed all doubt.

In no way am I anti-pay Sway. He just isn't up for an 8-year top money contract yet.
You can't have term and top $ with a limited resume. It doesn't work like that. You need a body of work that shows you can hold up. He has established he has top end talent, he needs to establish, at the NHL level that he can handle a Helleybuck/Shestrkin workload

Totally agree with this post. By year three he would have proven he is or is not a top two goalie in the league. He he does you make the call to pay him or not. If he doesn’t you make the call to sign him for less or move on to the next rising “superstar” goalie…rinse and repeat

 

[SwayHeyKid]

So here's the rub with the anti-pay-Sway crowd ... let's say he gets a $7.5 4 yr deal, shows he can be a #1 with no workload restrictions, goes deep in every playoff etc. Now it's 4 yrs later, and he's ready as a UFA to cash in to the HIGHEST BIDDER. Are you guys ok with losing him? Cause if he gets $10M, or $11M or more from someone and you match it's not going to help fill the rest of the roster anymore than it will today giving him $9.5M for 8 yrs - will it? And you STILL can lose him. Ready to take that chance?

They would be fine, he's not a team guy, selfish and a loser

the allure of an 8 year deal now for me is you don't have to pay him 35-39, deal ends at 33. It's quite perfect.

 

[Scotto74]

You state that Swayman was given the opportunity to run with being a starter. That was never the case at any point in the entire season. Monty and Boston decided from day 1 the goalies were going to alternate starts regardless of results. They even planned on doing it in the playoffs until Swayman won game 3 after Ullmark losing game 2. The only chance Swayman got to be the starter he did actually run with it and played some of his best hockey to date.

I never said he was given a chance to be the starter i said he didn’t take the starter role away from ullmark two very different things.

Teams should always be trying to win now. Every year is a try to win year. The bruins had the vezina winner and a guy who was still pretty green but showed potential. Green guy didn’t play well heading into the playoffs but still got the opportunity and then was basically given the starting role when ullmark was traded. But if he really wants to be the top paid goalie in the NHL he can go pound sand he hasn’t earned it.

your argument is the bruins new they were going to move on from ullmark so they should have given swayman the load if starts. I ask you again when do you think that point was?

 

[Pia8988]

I never said he was given a chance to be the starter i said he didn’t take the starter role away from ullmark two very different things.

Teams should always be trying to win now. Every year is a try to win year. The bruins had the vezina winner and a guy who was still pretty green but showed potential. Green guy didn’t play well heading into the playoffs but still got the opportunity and then was basically given the starting role when ullmark was traded. But if he really wants to be the top paid goalie in the NHL he can go pound sand he hasn’t earned it.

your argument is the bruins new they were going to move in from swayman. I ask you again when do you think that point was?

I'm saying the day to day results didn't matter and never did. To earn the starter role and saying he didn't is bullshit when the coach said all year the goalies were going to rotate starts.

They knew Ullmark was a dead man walking for the Bruins. If they had questions about Swayman's workload ability, they should have taken steps to figure it the f*** out. So there are two explanations for their actions. They intentionally limited Swayman's starts knowing negotiations were coming. Or they kept playing Ullmark to keep him happy knowing they were missing info on Swayman. Hence incompetence. Saying Swayman didn't outplay Ullmark the post deadline doesn't matter when it was never a criteria for the front office.

You can't just retroactively say, well this was your trial period and failed! It was never the case.

You've concocted a scenario in your head the flies in the face of everything this team has said to justify them not actually finding out if Swayman can hack it or not before trying to lock him up long term.

As for picking the deadline as the date. They didn't wake up trade deadline morning and decide Ullmark wasn't the future.

 

[SwayHeyKid]

If Korpi is as bad as some of you think, Sway man will need to play 55-65 games of the regular season. Has he ever played that much?..............................NO!

Considering his play took a dive after the AS game, there should be concern.

How many times did Rask play that many games before his big deal?

Dive after the AS game? How was his play-offs?

I'm saying the day to day results didn't matter and never did. To earn the starter role and saying he didn't is bullshit when the coach said all year the goalies were going to rotate starts.

add to the fact they wanted to trade Ullmark last season and he shot it down,

 

[Scotto74]

I'm saying the day to day results didn't matter and never did. To earn the starter role and saying he didn't is bullshit when the coach said all year the goalies were going to rotate starts.

They knew Ullmark was a dead man walking for the Bruins. If they had questions about Swayman's workload ability, they should have taken steps to figure it the f*** out. So there are two explanations for their actions. They intentionally limited Swayman's starts knowing negotiations were coming. Or they kept playing Ullmark to keep him happy knowing they were missing info on Swayman. Hence incompetence. Saying Swayman didn't outplay Ullmark the post deadline doesn't matter when it was never a criteria for the front office.

You can't just retroactively say, well this was your trial period and failed! It was never the case.

This is total BS.

Ok so if they knew ullmark was a dead man and should have “ given” all the starts to swayman.

What are we doing this year about marchand? Older, last year of his contract so clearly not in the long term plans of the bruins. Which green guy should they “give” his ice time to? Lysell maybe some are high in him and his contract is up next year. How will we know what he is worth if they don’t “give” him the opportunity.


This is the highest level of hockey nothing should be given the guys need to earn and take it.

Sway never earned ullmaks spot. Lysell has not earned marchands spot.

Swayman needs to grow up and earn the pay and ice time not have it “given” to him

7.5 is more then fair for he has proven so far

 

[ON3M4N]

He can want two years all he wants he’s not going to get it.

Right now no one is getting anything. If I'm Swayman though, either let's work out an 8yr deal or give me a 2-3yr deal and let me hit FA while I'm in my prime.

 

[Pia8988]

This is total BS.

Ok so if they knew ullmark was a dead man and should have “ given” all the starts to swayman.

What are we doing this year about marchand? Older, last year of his contract so clearly not in the long term plans of the bruins. Which green guy should they “give” his ice time to? Lysell maybe some are high in him and his contract is up next year. How will we know what he is worth if they don’t “give” him the opportunity.


This is the highest level of hockey nothing should be given the guys need to earn and take it.

Not all, but if you have concerns he can't play 55 games and last. Then yes, you f***ing try it and see the results. This entire saga has been filled with bullshit like, 'Swayman has never carried the load'. However could they have found that information out. It's the stupidest god damn excuse. You pick a stretch, you play it out, you see the results. It's even better last year when you have Ullmark as a safety net in case Swayman does falter.

It boils down to simple f***ing scientific theory.

"Can Swayman play 55 games and not fall apart"
" Test the scenario"

God the audacity. Instead we get this bullshit. Well it's a risk to lock him up long term. Well they had a Vezina goalie who they knew they wanted the trade anyway.

That's literally the job of the front office to not just plan for 1 year and think down the road.

 

[Scotto74]

Not all, but if you have concerns he can't play 55 games and last. Then yes, you f***ing try it and see the results. This entire saga has been filled with bullshit like, 'Swayman has never carried the load'. However could they have found that information out. It's the stupidest god damn excuse. You pick a stretch, you play it out, you see the results. It's even better last year when you have Ullmark as a safety net in case Swayman does falter.

It boils down to simple f***ing scientific theory.

"Can Swayman play 55 games and not fall apart"
" Test the scenario"

God the audacity. Instead we get this bullshit. Well it's a risk to lock him up long term. Well they had a Vezina goalie who they knew they wanted the trade anyway.

That's literally the job of the front office to not just plan for 1 year and think down the road.

There is nothing scientific about it. Fact is he has not carried the load why should he be Paid like he has proven he could?

Facts go into contract negotiations.

Fact - sway was 11th in gaa last year
Fact - sway was 7th in save % last year
Fact - sway has never played more then 44 games
Fact - swy struggled after the trade last year
Fact - sway finally stole the job during the leafs series and played great over a small sample size
Fact - bruin’s clearly have faith he can be the starter by trading ullmark
Fact - sway has won - 1 playoff series


None of that adds up to lets pay him more then any other goalie in the NHL. The argument of he didn’t get a chance to play enough games is not an argument for a pay increase.

Not sure what i am missing that says he should be the highest paid goalie in the league other than I have a feeling he will be worth it.

 

[Pia8988]

There is nothing scientific about it. Fact is he has not carried the load why should ge be laid like he has proven he could?

Facts go into contract negotiations.

Fact - sway was 11th in gaa last year
Fact - sway was 7th in save % last year
Fact - sway has never played more then 44 games
Fact - swy struggled after the traid deadline last year
Fact - sway finally stole the job during the leafs series and played great over a small sample size
Fact - bruin’s clearly have faith he can be the starter by trading ullmark
Fact - sway has won - 1 playoff series


None of that adds up to lets pay him more then any other goalie in the NHL. The argument of he didn’t get a chance to play enough games is not an argument for a pay increase.

Not sure what i am missing that says he should be the highest paid goalie in the league other them. I have a feeling he will be worth it.

Because you want him to do that. You're trying to lock up his prime years and want to punish him for something you decided as an organization. Of course he isn't going to be down for that. Now you're essentially going down the path they intentionally limited his playing time to get a better contract.

So fine. 2 x 7. Swayman can play the starter load and then can figure it out. Then when that deal is up they can try to 8 x 10+ after shetyrkin resets the goalie market and his contemporaries also get paid.

Honestly, this fan base deserves Korpisalo/Bussi

 

[Scotto74]

Because you want him to do that. You're trying to lock up his prime years and want to punish him for something you decided as an organization. Of course he isn't going to be down for that. Now you're essentially going down the path they intentionally limited his playing time to get a better contract.

So fine. 2 x 7. Swayman can play the starter load and then can figure it out. Then when that deal is up they can try to 8 x 10+ after shetyrkin resets the goalie market and his contemporaries also get paid.

Honestly, this fan base deserves Korpisalo/Bussi

Man your really fired up. I am a facts guy you a gut feelings guy. I judge player 80% on what they have proven and 20% on my gut feelings.

Maybe you judge 80% on gut feelings and emotions and 20% on facts.

Its all cool neither of us are the gm and i am sure we both want the bruins to win the cup every single year we just have different opinions on what swayman has proven he is worth.

This fan base deserves Korpisalo/Bussi because we don’t feel swayman has proven he should be the highest paid goalie in the NHL is a bit overreacting no?

 

[Absurdity]

Right now no one is getting anything. If I'm Swayman though, either let's work out an 8yr deal or give me a 2-3yr deal and let me hit FA while I'm in my prime.

Agreed, according to LeBrun it's status quo with both sides not budging. Swayman wants to stay here, and the Bruins want him here. A short-term deal is good for Swayman because he gets a raise, can build his resume, gets to prove he's a #1, and he will be able to cash in at the end of his next deal either with the Bruins or in free agency.

From a Bruins' perspective, Swayman makes you a better team in the next 2-3 years. There's the risk that Swayman may leave, but if the Bruins want to keep him, they can tell Swayman, "hey, let's get a short-term deal done because we want you here. You can improve your resume, show us you are a #1 goaltender, and with the cap increasing in the next couple of years, we'll sign you to a long-term deal at a higher cap hit." If the Bruins try to extend him in the last year of his deal and contract talks are still bad, they can trade him.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

So here's the rub with the anti-pay-Sway crowd ... let's say he gets a $7.5 4 yr deal, shows he can be a #1 with no workload restrictions, goes deep in every playoff etc. Now it's 4 yrs later, and he's ready as a UFA to cash in to the HIGHEST BIDDER. Are you guys ok with losing him? Cause if he gets $10M, or $11M or more from someone and you match it's not going to help fill the rest of the roster anymore than it will today giving him $9.5M for 8 yrs - will it? And you STILL can lose him. Ready to take that chance?

After two seasons you could extend him two years at $12 mil. if he was that good.

 

[badbrewin]

And if I’m Swayman, I tell Don Sweeney in no uncertain terms that I really don’t trust anything he says at this point. Show me the money, or don’t.

Offering a guy a 70% raise and setting him up for life is not a reason to distrust someone. Looking to gouge your team with demands because you have them by balls is why we are here. Please don't tell us he is worth top 5 league goalie money based on a 132 game sampling.

The guys who are top 5 paid their dues first.

 

[Pia8988]

Man your really fired up. I am a facts guy you a gut feelings guy. I judge player 80% on what they have proven and 20% on my gut feelings.

Maybe you judge 80% on gut feelings and emotions and 20% on facts.

Its all cool neither of us are the gm and i am sure we both want the bruins to win the cup every single year we just have different opinions on what swayman has proven he is worth.

This fan base deserves Korpisalo/Bussi because we don’t feel swayman has proven he should be the highest paid goalie in the NHL is a bit overreacting no?

Except he isn't trying to be the highest paid goalie ever.

You say facts, but you ignore context. So we both agree. 2 x 7. Then you can evaluate.

With an 8 year deal you have to adjust value pver the entire term and not just think year 1

 

[EverettMike]

1 year for 8 million

Who says no and why?

 

[Gee Wally]

1 year for 8 million

Who says no and why?

Me.
Because youre in exact same position next year.

 

[EverettMike]

Me.
Because youre in exact same position next year.

Hmm.....don't know how much Don Sweeney cares about HF mods.

I am sure Jeremy Swayman does.

 

[DKH]

Give him 2/13 and he can sign with LA and go to Stanford.

Get Ullmark back at deadline

Red Line Sept issue best goalie crop in dozen years

 

[JAD]

Because you want him to do that. You're trying to lock up his prime years and want to punish him for something you decided as an organization. Of course he isn't going to be down for that. Now you're essentially going down the path they intentionally limited his playing time to get a better contract.

So fine. 2 x 7. Swayman can play the starter load and then can figure it out. Then when that deal is up they can try to 8 x 10+ after shetyrkin resets the goalie market and his contemporaries also get paid.

Honestly, this fan base deserves Korpisalo/Bussi

First off I want to preface this by saying, I hope this negotiation get resolved and Swayman is signed to a contract keeping him in Boston for several years and that Swayman becomes everything we hope he will be and more so that everyone is happy.

Hypothetical scenario here:
Let's assume Boston began negotiations with an offer of 6.4m per yr. Let's assume that is the opening offer and let's also assume Boston has a line drawn as a cap figure per yr they will not cross with Swayman.

Let's also assume that Swayman's camp began negotiations with a request of 9 or 10 mil per yr ... wanting to take into consideration unrealized player potential, escalating league cap structure, and a desire to be paid as one of the top goalies in the league.

At 6.4 Boston's offer would place Swayman at 5th or 6th highest paid active goalies currently. Swayman camp wants more. Boston obviously can not pay Swayman 9 or 10 mil without drastically altering the the depth, structure, and possibly core of the team.

In such a scenario something has to give.
Swayman most likely is going to want to earn an income this year. Boston is going to want to have stable depth at goalie this year and going forward.
Boston will have to raise their offer, Swayman's camp will have to reduce their demands - compromise.

Hypothetically, let's say Boston's max offer is 8.4 mil per for 8 years. Swayman should take it because NHL contracts are basically guaranteed money even if he falls flat on his face. The vanity aspect of wanting to be paid as one of the highest paid goalies in the league should survive through out the eight years even with the cap going up. At least two of the active goalies now making more than that amount will retire during that time frame. And then there is the question of how many goalies in the league are currently qualified or in a position to make more during that time frame? Not very many ... maybe 2 possibly 3?

Swayman with such an offer is not being punished, he is being rewarded for a promise of what might be all while being paid amongst the highest paid goalies in the league. Swayman stats look good, but in reality he has accomplished nothing out of the ordinary that many other goalies have also accomplished. There is a real possibility that this last spring's playoff performance might be the best that Swayman ever plays as a player in the NHL. There is also the risk Boston would be taking that Swayman doesn't turn into Raycroft when traded to Toronto or become like many other goalies who once looked promising but flamed out. If Boston were to offer that much he should take the money and run. Lastly, at the end of the 8 yrs if he plays well he would still be in a position to cash in again.

Otherwise, there is possibly a local car dealership that could use a salesman or a local grocery that needs a bagger. Hell, I wish I was offered 6.4 mil for 8 yrs to play a game I love.

 

[Lobster57]

Give him 2/13 and he can sign with LA and go to Stanford.

Get Ullmark back at deadline

Red Line Sept issue best goalie crop in dozen years

bit of a commute from LA to Stanford.