Player Discussion Jeremy Swayman -VI President Cam Speaks: Monty, Donny, & Charlie too!

[Gee Wally]

Mod edit: @smithformeragent

As this situation continues to drag on:

Please keep the conversation pertinent to the topic and avoid making it personal.

Debate about the management of the salary cap and the performance of the general manager fits into the context of the conversation, but we’ll avoid dividing fans into camps like “pro-player” and “team apologist”.

Thanks!

Continue if you must. No flaming!

Click to read more...

 

[SwayHeyKid]

I don’t agree with the sentiment, but the latter is simply basic asset management.

They did give Freddy a deal right to UFA. To me they just want their cake and eat it too in this situation it seems.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

They did give Freddy a deal right to UFA. To me they just want their cake and eat it too in this situation it seems.

Very very different caliber of player/asset. Not even a possible comparison.

 

[SwayHeyKid]

Yeah but if he "proved" himself this year, you still have a year under contract to extend him or trade him.

I don't get it some of the logic with "We can't sign Swayman to a big dollar contract at a long AAV because we don't know if he can be a top flight 55-60 game starting goalie, but we can't sign him to a contract that lets him get to UFA because we think he's going to be a top flight 55-60 game starting goalie."

People are also seemingly forgetting the fact that they tried to peddle Ullmark during the season last year so the Bruins clearly think Swayman can be a 55 plus guy. It's not even a question with them so none of that holds water in these negotiations.... From the Bruins side either they are flexing their "you have two years to UFA" so here is a four year deal since we own you or they are coming up woefully short on AAV for a long deal. If they came in 6.5 long term and Sway was 9 or whatever it would be done by now at 8 or 8 plus but my feeling is the Bruins don't want to go that high. It's possible Sway is sticking to his guns, but generally you don't start with a number and expect it.

Very very different caliber of player/asset. Not even a possible comparison.

It's still not great asset management which is my point unless like you said they view Freddy as ok if here or not here.

 

[Mad-Marcus]

If most of his stubbornness over his value is propagated by the arbitration process, then he needs to grow up. It's part of all professional sports with an CBA that allows for arbitration.
Player's egos get bruised, teams walk away from judgements. It's part of life that us humanoids do not deal with in everyday life.
There is a certain lack of gratitude in that these guys are getting play games for big money. Regardless of bitching over a few million dollars, they are all set for life unless they're completely financially incompetent.
My sympathy only goes so far. Even the crappy, supposed 6.25M X 4, sets him up for life.
If the B's were playing hardball with a 4 time all star, 4 time top 5 Vez vote getter, I could more easily understand the attitude.
The B's has historically not let superstars leave due to lack of being paid. He is not a superstar... yet.

 

[SwayHeyKid]

If most of his stubbornness over his value is propagated by the arbitration process, then he needs to grow up. It's part of all professional sports with an CBA that allows for arbitration.
Player's egos get bruised, teams walk away from judgements. It's part of life that us humanoids do not deal with in everyday life.
There is a certain lack of gratitude in that these guys are getting play games for big money. Regardless of bitching over a few million dollars, they are all set for life unless they're completely financially incompetent.
My sympathy only goes so far. Even the crappy, supposed 6.25M X 4, sets him up for life.
If the B's were playing hardball with a 4 time all star, 4 time top 5 Vez vote getter, I could more easily understand the attitude.
The B's has historically not let superstars leave due to lack of being paid. He is not a superstar... yet.

So you side with ownership over the players. You don't mind a guy who makes tens and tens of millions per year with an asset thats worth in the billions who has made money hand over fist for 49 years, but you have an issue with a player cashing in on his one time to truly cash in. Interesting.

Swyaman is a superstar, well at least everywhere else I read other than this place.

 

[BigGoalBrad]

So you side with ownership over the players. You don't mind a guy who makes tens and tens of millions per year with an asset thats worth in the billions who has made money hand over fist for 49 years, but you have an issue with a player cashing in on his one time to truly cash in. Interesting.

Swyaman is a superstar, well at least everywhere else I read other than this place.

The Ullmark trade removes any good will towards Swayman for most of us. We never trade a Vezina winning 1B if we think this plays out as it has. It’s a free country and Swaymans right to use that as leverage for more money but I’m not sure why any Bruins fan should be cheering that on.

 

[SwayHeyKid]

The Ullmark trade removes any good will towards Swayman for most of us. We never trade a Vezina winning 1B if we think this plays out as it has. It’s a free country and Swaymans right to use that as leverage for more money but I’m not sure why any Bruins fan should be cheering that on.

Bruins fans should be wanting their best players in the lineup not cheering on management to do what they need to do to keep his number down.

 

[lopey]

Bruins fans should be wanting their best players in the lineup not cheering on management to do what they need to do to keep his number down.

I think everyone here wants a fair deal for Swayman and not an overpay. Doesnt mean they are pro management. Sweeney needs to do whats best for the team. I guess you think swaymen should get everything he is asking for ?

 

[Mad-Marcus]

So you side with ownership over the players. You don't mind a guy who makes tens and tens of millions per year with an asset thats worth in the billions who has made money hand over fist for 49 years, but you have an issue with a player cashing in on his one time to truly cash in. Interesting.

Swyaman is a superstar, well at least everywhere else I read other than this place.

He's not a superstar yet. He's won nothing. Jennings was on Linus's back, he helped but wasn't the primary reason.
Just because you read something on the internet doesn't make it true.

Your entire opinion is based on reasonable "futures", not history.

Cart before the horse.

If you've actually read any of my posts, I want to pay him well, just for 4 years 7.5-8M. That is paying him on expectations.
It's gamble for both player and team. If he cracks or gets injured, it is his payday, and not a bad one.

Your argument of the cap going way up is a reasonable conjecture, but it is not etched in stone, especially with another potential strike within the next 3-5 years, which could stunt the cap growth, as greedy owners always make their nut back. Not to mention, no one expected the pandemic and look what that did to the economic for the NHL.

I want the player but both sides need to be reasonable.

 

[nORRis8]

If that is true, I wonder what it actually means? Is it by Oct. 8 we cave to Swayman if they are still far apart? They look to trade him? They give up and try again next summer while Sway sits the year out? It seems kind of weird in light of the report that they are not close to a deal.

Likely the Bruins will negotiate till then, after that it's all up to Swayman's agent to build a bridge.

Or

The season begins and the Bruins turn to the UFA list of goalies and go with someone who can split duties with Korpisalo for the year and let Swayman sit making $0.00.

Or

The Bruins would be seeking a team that has cap space for him and launch him into the other conference with a trade.

 

[4ORRBRUIN]

I think everyone here wants a fair deal for Swayman and not an overpay. Doesnt mean they are pro management. Sweeney needs to do whats best for the team. I guess you think swaymen should get everything he is asking for ?

Never seen anything like this before as a 50 year Bruin fan. Im done with this player, get rid of him if you can.

He has forever put a target on his back and will be mocked for every shit goal he gives up and will be shredded for not being able to carry the team on his back like a 10m goalie should.

The Bruins or their players will not want to deal with that going forward, he's toast in Boston.

 

[Mad-Marcus]

Or look for a goalie that has been stuck in hell like Gibson. (out w/appendix) but he had this ridiculous pedigree coming into the league and played on a crap team his entire career.
This is just an example of one path forward if it does not work out.

Resigning Linus for 7M and trading Swayman for a scoring is looking like positive revisionist history right now.

Linus loved it here and was grateful to be rescued form Buffalo.

 

[Hookslide]

Or look for a goalie that has been stuck in hell like Gibson. (out w/appendix) but he had this ridiculous pedigree coming into the league and played on a crap team his entire career.
This is just an example of one path forward if it does not work out.

What do you move for Gibson when healthy, not that I am endorsing a move for him, but I am curious.

 

[4ORRBRUIN]

So you side with ownership over the players. You don't mind a guy who makes tens and tens of millions per year with an asset thats worth in the billions who has made money hand over fist for 49 years, but you have an issue with a player cashing in on his one time to truly cash in. Interesting.

Swyaman is a superstar, well at least everywhere else I read other than this place.

Who says he's a superstar? Him and his agent, you?

To this point he has been a good goalie and should be paid like a good goalie, when he proves he's a "superstar" then come see us.

I would be happy if he becomes another Ullmark.

 

[EverettMike]

Never seen anything like this before as a 50 year Bruin fan. Im done with this player, get rid of him if you can.

He has forever put a target on his back and will be mocked for every shit goal he gives up and will be shredded for not being able to carry the team on his back like a 10m goalie should.

The Bruins or their players will not want to deal with that going forward, he's toast in Boston.

Only total f***ing assholes will do this.

 

[Dr Hook]

Likely the Bruins will negotiate till then, after that it's all up to Swayman's agent to build a bridge.

Or

The season begins and the Bruins turn to the UFA list of goalies and go with someone who can split duties with Korpisalo for the year and let Swayman sit making $0.00.

Or

The Bruins would be seeking a team that has cap space for him and launch him into the other conference with a trade.

Kind of my point- you listed three possibilities there, and who knows what the Bruins actually have in mind.

Only total f***ing assholes will do this.

And they would have done it anyway.

 

[Mad-Marcus]

What do you move for Gibson when healthy, not that I am endorsing a move for him, but I am curious.

Me either, but as a contingency, he's a goalie I'd look at. He is better than what he has been in ANH. Always talked about as a Team USA goalie. ANH is a rebuild. Do we include Swayman if it comes to that? His 1st 3-4 years when ANH was relevant were pretty good. 6.4M for2 more years, he's 31yo.
He was as awful as the rest of the team the last 2 years, mailing it in maybe?
Desperate times require..............

 

[KrejciMVP]

Never seen anything like this before as a 50 year Bruin fan. Im done with this player, get rid of him if you can.

He has forever put a target on his back and will be mocked for every shit goal he gives up and will be shredded for not being able to carry the team on his back like a 10m goalie should.

The Bruins or their players will not want to deal with that going forward, he's toast in Boston.

I assume it will be the same as Carey Price with all his defenders will say that goal isn't his fault. Narratives are dug in and will be defended no matter what happens, end of the day the Bruins are justified not spending big money on a goalie with a small resume and hasn't handled a #1 goalies workload

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

So what’s fair to you for term and aav?

My original suggestion still seems fair to me, 4 years, $7.5 mil. per.

 

[Mad-Marcus]

My original suggestion still seems fair to me, 4 years, $7.5 mil. per.

Great minds think alike. I've moved a little begrudgingly to an AAV of 8.5 tops, but 7.5 is the right #.
Good money short enough term to see if he can handle being #1 in the NHL, and it leaves him young enough for 1 more, bigger payday if he earns it.

I love that he has such a huge ego, but sooner or later the check needs to be cashed to see if there funds to cover it.
Yes, really, really bad analogy.

 

[SwayHeyKid]

He's not a superstar yet. He's won nothing. Jennings was on Linus's back, he helped but wasn't the primary reason.
Just because you read something on the internet doesn't make it true.

Your entire opinion is based on reasonable "futures", not history.

Cart before the horse.

If you've actually read any of my posts, I want to pay him well, just for 4 years 7.5-8M. That is paying him on expectations.
It's gamble for both player and team. If he cracks or gets injured, it is his payday, and not a bad one.

Your argument of the cap going way up is a reasonable conjecture, but it is not etched in stone, especially with another potential strike within the next 3-5 years, which could stunt the cap growth, as greedy owners always make their nut back. Not to mention, no one expected the pandemic and look what that did to the economic for the NHL.

I want the player but both sides need to be reasonable.

25 year old goalie favorite for the Vezina

year one. All rookie team
year two. Jennings trophy 24-6-4 2.27 .920 4so
year three. Best post season performance since Tuuk in 2013.

79-33-15-2.43 .919 in 132 games

How in blue hell is that not a young superstar goalie?

Cap is 88 mil this year. Bruins can fit him. get it done.

Who says he's a superstar? Him and his agent, you?

To this point he has been a good goalie and should be paid like a good goalie, when he proves he's a "superstar" then come see us.

I would be happy if he becomes another Ullmark.

If he was another Ullmark he would have been pulled before the Toronto series was over and they would have been out round 1.

How does his first three seasons and ten games stack up with goalies in history?

Who are you trading the 25 year old Swayman for? What goalies?

 

[SwayHeyKid]

My original suggestion still seems fair to me, 4 years, $7.5 mil. per.

that would have been fair last summer IMO.... I would even say the AAV should be lower. I don't know many players of his ilk that don't ink longer term deals than 4 when they are 2 years from complete freedom.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

25 year old goalie favorite for the Vezina

year one. All rookie team
year two. Jennings trophy 24-6-4 2.27 .920 4so
year three. Best post season performance since Tuuk in 2013.

79-33-15-2.43 .919 in 132 games

How in blue hell is that not a young superstar goalie?

Cap is 88 mil this year. Bruins can fit him. get it done.


If he was another Ullmark he would have been pulled before the Toronto series was over and they would have been out round 1.

How does his first three seasons and ten games stack up with goalies in history?

Who are you trading the 25 year old Swayman for? What goalies?

By who?

 

[SwayHeyKid]

I think everyone here wants a fair deal for Swayman and not an overpay. Doesnt mean they are pro management. Sweeney needs to do whats best for the team. I guess you think swaymen should get everything he is asking for ?

there are alot of people killing Swayman personally like he stole their significant other.

Swayman does not need to do whats best for the team. He doesn't need to take less because they couldnt find a center for 20 years to replace what they had and paid 4.5 mil in overages last season, meaning they couldn't give him a long term deal. Also not his fault they got a 3 million dollar backup forced upon them.

You must be disgusted with McAvoy and Pasta for not doing whats best for the team.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

By who?

Vegas odds. Swayman and Shesterkin are tied at +550