Player Discussion Jeremy Swayman -VI President Cam Speaks: Monty, Donny, & Charlie too!

[Gee Wally]

Mod edit: @smithformeragent

As this situation continues to drag on:

Please keep the conversation pertinent to the topic and avoid making it personal.

Debate about the management of the salary cap and the performance of the general manager fits into the context of the conversation, but we’ll avoid dividing fans into camps like “pro-player” and “team apologist”.

Thanks!

Continue if you must. No flaming!

Click to read more...

 

[JAD]

Never said he wasn't.

Just not $9 mil good.

Not $9 mil - yet. The truth is , we just don't know. Too small of a sample size.
Hence , why I think negotiations are dragging out.
Swayman's camp want him to be paid for what they believe he will be. Boston's camp wants to error on the side of caution, because there is no sustained proof that he should be paid that much and they don't want to be burned if he flames out.

 

[JoeIsAStud]

Yep Again it’s the bruins mismanagement of the cap that has led to this. Guessing Swayman would have been more up for a 4 year extension last summer before the arbitration hearing and stellar first round. Oh and also before they traded their insurance policy

Yeah Sway probably would have been happy to sign a 4 year 5 mil per season bridge contract last year. Obviously the Bruins Couldn't do this, but what does that matter

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

Yeah Sway probably would have been happy to sign a 4 year 5 mil per season bridge contract last year. Obviously the Bruins Couldn't do this, but what does that matter

There’s absolutely nothing to indicate that he would have wanted to sign that last year.

 

[BigGoalBrad]

There’s absolutely nothing to indicate that he would have wanted to sign that last year.

Yeah greedy punk that fancies himself as a businessman.

I want a short deal I don’t trust this dude. He’s been acting like a rat since the Ullmark trade.

 

[analyser]

Those days are done. long time ago with a dead cap. I'll argue a 25 year old Swayman and a 26 year old Rask thank you. No way on earth he should be signing a 4 year deal when all these young forwards and defensemen who have accomplished much less are all cashing lottery tickets. Goalies are now due. Hellebuyck was 6/6plus a long time ago. I'll take 8/8+ with the cap going straight up

He is not worth it. Just because the cap is going up does not mean you have to spend a large portion on a player with a very limited resume.

Give him 6.5 max or realize he is not going to sign what is still a lucrative contract.

DS do what you have to do and concentrate on the team you already have in place.

 

[JoeIsAStud]

There’s absolutely nothing to indicate that he would have wanted to sign that last year.

He might not have. Who know it would have been a very fair bridge offer, and would have left him as a UFA at age 28. That would have been a very good deal for him, but given his agent, he still might have pushed him into arbitration instead

My point is it is kind or irrelevant as the bruins couldn't make that type of deal unless they were willing to pay someone a #1 to take a player off their roster. Maybe Sway would have wanted more, I doubt it would have been less, either way it wasn't a realistic option for Boston

 

[Scotto74]

All this is absolutely false. They said all years they were going to rotate that goalies every game regardless of results and planned to do that in the playoffs as well until Ullmark lost and they realized how stupid that was.

The fact is they knew Ullmark was never playing a game for them and kept up the rotation. If he was so good why didn't he start more games? Why didn't he start game 1?

They were comfortably in the playoffs. You commit to Swayman as the future. You try to deal Ullmark. So why are you not using this time to see if Swayman can play 2 more game and increase his work?

Incompetence is why.

So i post actual stats and your response is this is all false. How about backing that up with some facts? Or does your opinion mean more then actual stats: i love a good debate but when I bring actual facts and you bring nothing but opinion the conversation is over before it even started.

Again the team wants to win every year. Even if swayman is considered the future he was not playing well after the trade deadline and that is back up by stats and facts. If you feel differently show me the facts to back that opinion.

Bottom line is swayman has not proven he can carry the workload yet wants to be top two paid goalie in the league. I like him and want him signed but he has not earned top two pay and not a single stat i have seen supports him being top 2.

Bring some facts to support your argument or let’s just call it your unsupported opinion and move on.

Team has to do their best to win every single year. If they think a player will be traded in the offseason and stop playing them that is ridiculous. So basically what your saying is every team that has a UFA at the end of the season should sit them and see what their rookies can do because that are the future of the team. That is the craziest take I have ever heard

 

[Pia8988]

So i post actual stats and your response is this is all false. How about backing that uo with some facts? Or does your opinion mean more then actual stats: i love a good debate but when I bring actual facts and you bring nothing but opinion the conversation is over before it even started.

No. You posted stats thinking they mattered. There was no 'be the starter' option for Swayman. They limited his starts by design. I'm saying that was asinine if they're trying to pull the 'we don't know if he can handle it' horseshit. They controlled that. They knew negotiations were coming, so why didn't they see if they could. Did they intentionally limit Swayman's starts to tank his value in a contract year? Just as believable as Swayman is a greedy punk angle. Donny and crew manipulated his playing time to sign him to a lesser deal

Now let's get into actual facts

Why does every single f***ing good Bruin RFA take till after training came to get a deal?

List of Bruin RFA's that missed camp to get a deal done. Krug and Smith were forced into 1 year bridge deals just like Swayman because the Bruin's mismanged the Cap. Now Chia was the GM for Krug and Smith. But Donny and Cam were both key players in the front office and the Bruins operate the same way they did then. Can't blame Gross for all these, I'm sure some will just blame all agents.

Pastrnak
McAvoy
Carlo
Smith
Krug
Swayman

Another stance is how ass backwards the NHL treats UFAs vs RFAs. Sure UFAs have leverage, people over pay. But UFA contracts constantly come back to haunt teams while star RFAs overperform their deals. You're seeing a shift where young RFAs are putting up with that and teams are investing in them, and honestly good. Quit throwing bad money at players that are going to be on the downswing.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

Why does every single f***ing good Bruin RFA have to hold out

This is batshit. It’s some alternate reality.

 

[SwayHeyKid]

There’s absolutely nothing to indicate that he would have wanted to sign that last year.

Well he did ask for a little less than 5 in arbitration. Makes no sense why he would have turned something like that down at that point in time.

Maybe we can have a Swayman battery night and fans can let him know what we think of him.

Going to be a rough eight years for you when he does sign.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

Well he did ask for a little less than 5 in arbitration. Makes no sense why he would have turned something like that down at that point in time.


Going to be a rough eight years for you when he does sign.

Right. A two year deal at most. With two years left of RFA. Absolutely a great tell on what he would have committed to long term. And no way he was getting four years and buying out one UFA year on a bridge.

 

[SwayHeyKid]

No. You posted stats thinking they mattered. There was no 'be the starter' option for Swayman. They limited his starts by design. I'm saying that was asinine if they're trying to pull the 'we don't know if he can handle it' horseshit. They controlled that. They knew negotiations were coming, so why didn't they see if they could. Did they intentionally limit Swayman's starts to tank his value in a contract year? Just as believable as Swayman is a greedy punk angle. Donny and crew manipulated his playing time to sign him to a lesser deal

Now let's get into actual facts

Why does every single f***ing good Bruin RFA take till after training came to get a deal?

List of Bruin RFA's that missed camp to get a deal done. Krug and Smith were forced into 1 year bridge deals just like Swayman because the Bruin's mismanged the Cap. Now Chia was the GM for Krug and Smith. But Donny and Cam were both key players in the front office and the Bruins operate the same way they did then. Can't blame Gross for all these, I'm sure some will just blame all agents.

Pastrnak
McAvoy
Carlo
Smith
Krug
Swayman

Another stance is how ass backwards the NHL treats UFAs vs RFAs. Sure UFAs have leverage, people over pay. But UFA contracts constantly come back to haunt teams while star RFAs overperform their deals. You're seeing a shift where young RFAs are putting up with that and teams are investing in them, and honestly good. Quit throwing bad money at players that are going to be on the downswing.

Right. A two year deal at most. With two years left of RFA. Absolutely a great tell on what he would have committed to long term. And no way he was getting four years and buying out one UFA year on a bridge.

Why not? Ullmark was coming off a Vezina and he didn’t have his great playoffs yet? Four year deal made a lot of sense for both teams last summer. He would have traded one year of UFA for 15 mil over his three remaining RFA deals

 

[Dellstrom]

Not $9 mil - yet. The truth is , we just don't know. Too small of a sample size.
Hence , why I think negotiations are dragging out.
Swayman's camp want him to be paid for what they believe he will be. Boston's camp wants to error on the side of caution, because there is no sustained proof that he should be paid that much and they don't want to be burned if he flames out.

I really do get both sides. Likely, if the deal is 8 years, anything (within reason) will be a good deal for both sides as long as he continues to produce at an elite level. His potential needs to be factored into a deal when he's had several elite seasons at just 25 years old, which is incredibly young for a goalie.

But, he hasn't yet proven he can do it on his own, and he's had a Vezina winner at his side for his entire tenure here. Also needs to be taken into consideration because it is a risk. A risk I'm happy taking, and one the front office almost certainly is as well.

Sweeney and Swayman's agent are doing their jobs. Worst case scenario for both sides is that he misses significant time. They're very likely close and I'm pretty confident this will be over by opening night.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Well he did ask for a little less than 5 in arbitration. Makes no sense why he would have turned something like that down at that point in time.


Going to be a rough eight years for you when he does sign.

Don't worry, everyone ragging on Sway will pretend like this never happened. We've always been at war with Eastasia.

 

[UncleRico]

We just disagree how important that is. At that point in their contract cycle an arbitration award is just walking them to UFA. Right now Swayman is faced with making zero dollars. That sounds worse.

Well swayman would also be signed right now if the bruins elected for arbitration.

But I guess that’s not important somehow.

Yea swayman is faced with making zero dollars if he doesn’t play. Sweeney is faced with losing his job as GM if swayman doesn’t play and they miss the playoffs.

What’s more important to which person?

 

[Nothingbutglass]

Well swayman would also be signed right now if the bruins elected for arbitration.

But I guess that’s not important somehow.

And Swayman could have elected 2 years if the Bruins did, walking him to UFA. But I guess you dont get that somehow.

 

[UncleRico]

And Swayman could have elected 2 years if the Bruins did, walking him to UFA. But I guess you dont get that somehow.

Oh no I get it.

The issue is all the people wanting a bridge deal can’t grasp that last year was his bridge deal.

Since the bruins didn’t have the cap to give him one, the 1 year arbitration deal was his bridge deal you are asking for.

So yes swayman runs the risk of missing a year. Sweeney runs the risk of losing his job.

I doubt either push it that far but there’s risks on both sides. But he already got his bridge deal last year.

 

[EverettMike]

Yeah greedy punk that fancies himself as a businessman.

I want a short deal I don’t trust this dude. He’s been acting like a rat since the Ullmark trade.

Going to be a rough eight years for you when he does sign.

Something tells me it's going to be a rough 8 years for him no matter what happens with Swayman.

 

[Mad-Marcus]

Arbitration is not a bridge deal. No one on either side looks at it that way. A bridge deal is not determined by a 3rd party.
Pasta and Mac had exceptional years for their age prior to signing their 2nd full, no arbitrated contracts.
Swayman want to jump the line, in the name of martyring for future young goalies. He and his agent are intent on resetting how much of a % a young potential star's salary takes up of the cap.
Swayman is a star in the making. 1 All Star game, and a fade off, 2 rounds of PO's and a 1 7th place Vezina finish does not make a star.
The B's run a business and with Jacobs being a NHL Governor, I doubt this is the team to reset the standard % a young goalie gets, with a great, but limited resume.

The B's risk alienating a core, home grown talent. Swayman risks going down a road that many don't recover from. Lost years, lost wages, a reputation of being difficult to deal with over $$. I remember Dafoe holding out and getting hurt when he came back. He was never the same. I also remember quite a few premature Boston big contracts across all 4 major sports, that killed building a full roster.(B's included)

These are all truths. That being said, he is a fantastic talent that still has little more to prove. A 4 year deal with the expectation that a hefty extension will be negotiated in Year 3.

Or a 6 year deal with salaries of 6.5M x 2, 8.5M x 2, and 10.5M x 2. The only year the cap should hurt us from adding is this year.

 

[badbrewin]

Oh no I get it.

The issue is all the people wanting a bridge deal can’t grasp that last year was his bridge deal.

Since the bruins didn’t have the cap to give him one, the 1 year arbitration deal was his bridge deal you are asking for.

So yes swayman runs the risk of missing a year. Sweeney runs the risk of losing his job.

I doubt either push it that far but there’s risks on both sides. But he already got his bridge deal last year.

There are multi-level bridge deals throughout a professional life cycle. Last year, Swayman bridged from an ELC to a next level deal following a very good 37 game showing in 2022-23. I don't see that as THE bridge deal.

Now the guy is presumably looking for top 5 goalie money with just 132 games of NHL experience, trying to get what guys with 500+ NHL games, cups and Vezinas are getting paid. No way.

If I'm Sweeney, I offer him a 1-year 2nd level bridge deal for $7M this season and tell him, "sustain your performance in the regular season with ~ 55 games and a solid playoff and we'll make the necessary cap moves to give you top 5 money + term next season". With the top 6 d-corps the B's will have out there this season, I gladly accept that gamble if I'm Swayman.

I want Swayman on this team ASAP and people are bitching about Sweeney this, Sweeney that but the reality is no one could have foresaw his demands, nor should they pay Swayman for unproven, future performance. I've always defended salary squabbles with guys like Bourque, Neely, Allison, etc. during the frugal years but even though the Bruins are continuously spending to the cap limit, no way I give Swayman a long-term deal with top 5 type goalie AAV deal without 1 full season as a 55+ game starter.

 

[Dr Quincy]

And Swayman could have elected 2 years if the Bruins did, walking him to UFA. But I guess you dont get that somehow.

Yeah but if he "proved" himself this year, you still have a year under contract to extend him or trade him.

I don't get it some of the logic with "We can't sign Swayman to a big dollar contract at a long AAV because we don't know if he can be a top flight 55-60 game starting goalie, but we can't sign him to a contract that lets him get to UFA because we think he's going to be a top flight 55-60 game starting goalie."

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

Yeah but if he "proved" himself this year, you still have a year under contract to extend him or trade him.

I don't get it some of the logic with "We can't sign Swayman to a big dollar contract at a long AAV because we don't know if he can be a top flight 55-60 game starting goalie, but we can't sign him to a contract that lets him get to UFA because we think he's going to be a top flight 55-60 game starting goalie."

I don’t agree with the sentiment, but the latter is simply basic asset management.

 

[Hookslide]

Yeah Sway probably would have been happy to sign a 4 year 5 mil per season bridge contract last year. Obviously the Bruins Couldn't do this, but what does that matter

They could not do that because of the cap space was very limited, unless they moved out a contract. Sway what teammate do you suggest that they should move out so you and your agent can declare victory and have your press conference, and you can all smile and take photos as your ex-teammate is packing and your present teammates wonder what the hell is going on with you.

 

[SwayHeyKid]

And Swayman could have elected 2 years if the Bruins did, walking him to UFA. But I guess you dont get that somehow.

If hes only worth a bridge deal then who cares?

This place is strange....want a bridge deal "to see if he can be a number one" or "I like him long term but not anything that starts with an 8"....but then you suggest they should have filed for arbitration or just give him two years and take him to UFA "OMGGGGGG think of the children, he would leave then"
Which is it?

 

[Scotto74]

No. You posted stats thinking they mattered. There was no 'be the starter' option for Swayman. They limited his starts by design. I'm saying that was asinine if they're trying to pull the 'we don't know if he can handle it' horseshit. They controlled that. They knew negotiations were coming, so why didn't they see if they could. Did they intentionally limit Swayman's starts to tank his value in a contract year? Just as believable as Swayman is a greedy punk angle. Donny and crew manipulated his playing time to sign him to a lesser deal

Now let's get into actual facts

Why does every single f***ing good Bruin RFA take till after training came to get a deal?

List of Bruin RFA's that missed camp to get a deal done. Krug and Smith were forced into 1 year bridge deals just like Swayman because the Bruin's mismanged the Cap. Now Chia was the GM for Krug and Smith. But Donny and Cam were both key players in the front office and the Bruins operate the same way they did then. Can't blame Gross for all these, I'm sure some will just blame all agents.

Pastrnak
McAvoy
Carlo
Smith
Krug
Swayman

Another stance is how ass backwards the NHL treats UFAs vs RFAs. Sure UFAs have leverage, people over pay. But UFA contracts constantly come back to haunt teams while star RFAs overperform their deals. You're seeing a shift where young RFAs are putting up with that and teams are investing in them, and honestly good. Quit throwing bad money at players that are going to be on the downswing.

What facts did you state exactly after saying let's get to actual facts?

Every single good bruin rfa took till after training camp to get a good deal is a fantasy not a fact.

Facts are you said they decided to move on from ullmark after the deadline and they should have tested swayman to see if he could carry the workload. Fact is his numbers after the deadline were terrible and he proved at that point he couldn’t. Yet the bruins still gave him the playoffs to prove it and he played great.

When exactly did you want them to let him carry the workload? All season and bench the vezina winner?

How do you know exactly when they decided to move on from ullmark? Do you think it was at the start of the season? If thats the case i want everyone fired because swayman had what 60-70 games in his career at that point. If you decided that benching a vezina winner to see how a guy with less then a season’s worth of games as experience can do you should have nothing to do with running an NHL team.

What if it Was decided At the deadline? I posted swaymans numbers after the deadline and he kinda sucked. Down that stretch he didnt earn an AHL contract nevermind the highest paid NHL contract.


Again i like swayman, i feel he has great potential and i want him to be a bruin. but he has not earned being the top paid goalie in the league at this point.

You obviously feel different and that is fine but i have seen zero facts to back up your point. You list some RFA holdouts which you can do for every team and say every good bruins has to hold out to get a contract. what about
Bergeron
Kreici
Lucic
Marchand
Or are they not as good as your list? My list of good bruins that never held out will be a lot longer than yours that did. So saying “Every” good player is again not even close to an actual fact.

There are countless articles about RFA holdouts and in a lot the bruins are not even mentioned because its not a bruins management thing its an nhl thing


This is not a case of the bruins suck at management and always have holdouts. This is an NHL standard based on the current rules for Restricted Free Agents.

But we are getting off topic.

Topic is has swaymen earned the right to be paid as the top two goaltenders in the nhl? I say no and will back that up with actual stats and comparisons to other players and his performance to date. You say yes with no actual facts and comparisons to support your argument other than to rant on how bruins management sucks.

Agree to disagree