Player Discussion Jeremy Swayman -V - all still silent

[EverettMike]

Maybe it's my own tendency to overthink, but I saw you mention above "in a vacuum." If that's what you are really asking, I have to say I don't know what that means in this case. Are you meaning purely based on their technical skill sets compared to their peers in their respective positions? Because if so, I can't argue with Zadorov being worth a 1/3 of Swayman. But then I can't help but think of something like Paul Coffey vs Chris Pronger. How would you do that because all the skill sets are relative to context. Or that isn't what you are asking at all, and I am just engaging in work-avoidant behavior because this is more enjoyable?



Genuine question because I am not a part of the pissing match going on here: what number do you believe the Bruins should have started with for Swayman to consider it a "fair offer," and vice-versa?

I am trying to keep specific numbers out of it because that's not what I'm interested in with this. (We've all discussed specific numbers to death.)

I'm asking purely in terms of the value they bring to the Boston Bruins as players. That's very different than what the Bruins pay them/will pay them.

You can do it with any other two players if it helps you think it through. If Charlie McAvoy is worth X, is Brandon Carlo worth half of X? 75% of X? 25%?

 

[SwayHeyKid]

Maybe it's my own tendency to overthink, but I saw you mention above "in a vacuum." If that's what you are really asking, I have to say I don't know what that means in this case. Are you meaning purely based on their technical skill sets compared to their peers in their respective positions? Because if so, I can't argue with Zadorov being worth a 1/3 of Swayman. But then I can't help but think of something like Paul Coffey vs Chris Pronger. How would you do that because all the skill sets are relative to context. Or that isn't what you are asking at all, and I am just engaging in work-avoidant behavior because this is more enjoyable?



Genuine question because I am not a part of the pissing match going on here: what number do you believe the Bruins should have started with for Swayman to consider it a "fair offer," and vice-versa?

To me the original offer should have started with a 7 easily. The Swayman 9.5 thing was predictable as well. The deal should be done already 8/64-8/68. He's 25, you don't have to worry about ages 34-38 like all these other teams, you have the room, you have the space. He's your future.

 

[Pia8988]

Quoted because this needs to be repeated.

Doesn't make it any more factual

 

[Dr Hook]

I am trying to keep specific numbers out of it because that's not what I'm interested in with this. (We've all discussed specific numbers to death.)

I'm asking purely in terms of the value they bring to the Boston Bruins as players. That's very different than what the Bruins pay them/will pay them.

You can do it with any other two players if it helps you think it through. If Charlie McAvoy is worth X, is Brandon Carlo worth half of X? 75% of X? 25%?

Alrighty, cool. I see what you are asking now. I would put Zado at ~60% of Swayman in value (pending a decent sample size of Zado actually playing for the Bruins).

 

[nORRis8]

Yeah…because winning a Vezina is easy to do.

Yeesh

It is now. Years ago not as much.

 

[Dr Hook]

To me the original offer should have started with a 7 easily. The Swayman 9.5 thing was predictable as well. The deal should be done already 8/64-8/68. He's 25, you don't have to worry about ages 34-38 like all these other teams, you have the room, you have the space. He's your future.

That's fair, and where I probably would gone with him as well were I the GM. For all we know, the starting offer was ~$7m. I suppose that is what is frustrating about the bulk of the thread: there are lot of assumptions being treated as facts and people digging in on either side of them. They might even be close on dollars and/or term, but are hung up on an issue like trade protection or lockout protection.

 

[nORRis8]

Is this a bit?

If you need it to be

 

[NeelyDan]

This is all gonna end with some number we half expected anyway, it’s just a dick-swinging contest

 

[EverettMike]

If you need it to be

No, not at all. I would just like to know how seriously you are saying these things.

 

[nORRis8]

No, not at all. I would just like to know how seriously you are saying these things.

I wonder the same of you.

 

[TD Charlie]

This is all gonna end with some number we half expected anyway, it’s just a dick-swinging contest

The weird thing is that there aren't many outcomes that would surprise me here. A signed offer sheet would be out of left field, but anything else, sure...it could happen.

 

[SwayHeyKid]

That's fair, and where I probably would gone with him as well were I the GM. For all we know, the starting offer was ~$7m. I suppose that is what is frustrating about the bulk of the thread: there are lot of assumptions being treated as facts and people digging in on either side of them. They might even be close on dollars and/or term, but are hung up on an issue like trade protection or lockout protection.

I'm a bit blustery but the only thing that irritates me about the thread is the swipes at Swayman's character.

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

It is now. Years ago not as much.

El wrongo

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

I am trying to keep specific numbers out of it because that's not what I'm interested in with this. (We've all discussed specific numbers to death.)

I'm asking purely in terms of the value they bring to the Boston Bruins as players. That's very different than what the Bruins pay them/will pay them.

You can do it with any other two players if it helps you think it through. If Charlie McAvoy is worth X, is Brandon Carlo worth half of X? 75% of X? 25%?

There are analytics that measure this - like WAR. Or Dom’s model at the Athletic.

 

[Pia8988]

There are analytics that measure this - like WAR. Or Dom’s model at the Athletic.

Not good models

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

Not good models

Right. So much worse than gut feel in a vacuum models.

 

[EverettMike]

Right. So much worse than gut feel in a vacuum models.

If you don't want to engage in the conversation all you have to do is ignore it. No one is forcing you to respond. No one is forcing you to participate in what I very clearly said was a thought exercise. If I wanted to know what advanced stats say I would look them up. I was more curious what fans of the team think about relative value.

 

[Dr Hook]

I'm a bit blustery but the only thing that irritates me about the thread is the swipes at Swayman's character.

I'm with you, and I am also on the same wavelength when it comes to Sweeney on this, as there's been a bit of mudslinging about him as well.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

If you don't want to engage in the conversation all you have to do is ignore it. No one is forcing you to respond. No one is forcing you to participate in what I very clearly said was a thought exercise. If I wanted to know what advanced stats say I would look them up. I was more curious what fans of the team think about relative value.

And you don’t need to scold me for a pretty basic and simple answer. I didn’t attack you for how impossible it is to do your “thought exercise” - just said that these things have been quantified by others. Pulling some “3 times the value” out of a hat towards a conclusion you’ve already reached is pretty funny.

 

[EverettMike]

And you don’t need to scold me for a pretty basic and simple answer. I didn’t attack you for how impossible it is to do your “thought exercise” - just said that these things have been quantified by others. Pulling some “3 times the value” out of a hat towards a conclusion you’ve already reached is pretty funny.

"So much worse than gut feel in a vacuum models."

Guy, this was pretty clearly you shitting on what I asked. Which is fine, you can think it's dumb as shit. But if you do you can simply not get involved. But no, you said "they have stats for that," even though that's not what I was asking in any way.

And not that you deserve anything more than that, but I was curious how OTHERS think about this topic. I only shared my thoughts when someone asked for clarification.

 

[bruinsfan1968]

I'm with you, and I am also on the same wavelength when it comes to Sweeney on this, as there's been a bit of mudslinging about him as well.

Opinions and swipes have come both ways, but in the end, I am sure everyone wants Swayman to sign. Whatever he signs for everyone needs to just deal with it!.
There are bigger things to deal with on the horizon, that could affect us all!.

 

[Dr Hook]

Opinions and swipes have come both ways, but in the end, I am sure everyone wants Swayman to sign. Whatever he signs for everyone needs to just deal with it!.
There are bigger things to deal with on the horizon, that could affect us all!.

Yup. We all have opinion on what we think Swayman should sign for, and ideas about what it means for the team at whatever number, but in the end, I want him in our net and hope it can be resolved. Whatever it is, it is. Once the puck drops I pretty much stop caring about the salaries anyway.

 

[ranold26]

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/the-talking-point-who-has-more-leverage-swayman-or-the-bruins~2999868

Craig Button with some analysis of who has the leverage.

 

[Pia8988]

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/the-talking-point-who-has-more-leverage-swayman-or-the-bruins~2999868

Craig Button with some analysis of who has the leverage.

He's not wrong. The Ottawa is trash defensively is a bit of a myth. Same as Bruins were elite defensively

 

[OldScool]

I really have to question the front office at this point. Can they not proper evaluate goaltending talent and tell that Swagman is an elite goalie? The kid only played a limited amount of games because the organization limited his playing time. I am sure he wanted additional starts but the Bruins had a Vezina goalie and wanted to ride them both - that's fine but then you can't hold him accountable for not having enough of track record. Swayman was a stud in college, stud in Providence and a stud at the NHL level...theres the track record. Cut the stupid &&^(&*%^# and pay the man. 8 years at $8mill per and get on with it.