Player Discussion Jeremy Swayman -V - all still silent

[SwayHeyKid]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1838570706415559073

Still time for a deal but Sweeney and co have done a really bad job so far.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Contracts aside, what goalies would you rather have over Swayman?

I asked this question about 10 pages ago and haven't gotten a response (maybe people don't like me). I'd love to see this list. Put it out there people. All the goalies playing in the NHL right now, who do you want most for 2024-2030?

Go ahead and name them, and then forget you ever listed any of them above Swayman once he signs and you like him again.

 

[Jorgolyte]

I just can't believe we're in a place where 8/8 for Jeremy Swayman is a great deal. Why do we think he's a top notch goalie long term and why do we think having a top notch goalie is essential to winning? He may be marginally better than Korp or they may be pretty much the same. It's remarkable that people get hung up on short term goalie success when they play for sound defensive teams. To me they traded the wrong goalie-- the cheaper one who's just as good. They can still trade him and I hope they do if good value can be had. But not a lot of teams are going to line up to give up real assets in order to pay JS a ton with big term

 

[PaulD]

Contract and age aside, I'd take Vasilevskiy, Hellebuyck, Shesterkin. To me those are your elite, top end guys who are work horses and perennial Vezina candidates.

The next tier which I think Swayman is in but all these guys are interchangeable to me (again, age and contract aside): Bobrovsky, Oettinger, Demko, Saros, Sorokin, Markstrom, Ullmark.

So in terms of just skill, I would take the top group over Swayman and the bottom group as a comparable alternative. Anyone else in the league I'd consider a downgrade.

Now that second group, there's guys in there probably in the top-5 annually for Vezina votes but Ullmark and Swayman are the only two I wouldn't currently consider work horses.

Agree with all but Vassy. He hasnt looked like the elite Vassy since the 2022 play offs. Absolutely stunk against leafs in round one 2023. Followed that up with Injury shortened mediocre season and poor play off performance against Panthers in another first round elimination.

 

[Pia8988]

I asked this question about 10 pages ago and haven't gotten a response (maybe people don't like me). I'd love to see this list. Put it out there people. All the goalies playing in the NHL right now, who do you want most for 2024-2030?

Go ahead and name them, and then forget you ever listed any of them above Swayman once he signs and you like him again.

When you factor in age and contract. Oettinger.

Shestrykin wants to back up the truck, Demko has some scary injury history.
Saros possibly as well. but the list is short

 

[PaulD]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1838570706415559073

Still time for a deal but Sweeney and co have done a really bad job so far.

If not wanting to over pay for a goaltender is a "really bad job" ................... just look at some other teams who just opened the vault on their tough negotiations. Leafs being primo example.

 

[Eddie Munson]

So if the B's decide to sign Tyler Johnson, do you think they should offer him 3 or 4 million based on his proven performance? Or should they recognize that paying someone for past achievements instead of what you think they will do in the future may be a bad idea? Or is it really "It depends on which way results in a player getting less $ so that management 'win'?"

Of course you don't JUST look at what a player has done. You take into account they're growth and potential. That said, and I'll speak for myself, but my argument isn't about his stats today versus what they could be tomorrow. He's been relatively consistent stats wise. My concern is games played and I'm so tired of people saying "it's a disingenuous argument." Sorry, but it's an actual concern. He has enough body of work to know he's a top-10 goalie in the game while in a platoon. There's no evidence that when he starts playing 50-65 games a season that he'll be able to continue to put up those numbers, hell he even seemed to slow a bit after Christmas last year. Maybe just the ebb and flow of the season, maybe an injury, maybe fatigue? And it's not like we can look at his stats elsewhere, he's never started more than 44 games in a regular season. Not in college, not in the AHL. If you could look at a full season in Providence, or the OHL and see that he managed a workload that's required for a full-time starter, then I'd feel better at handing him the payday he's looking for today. However, devoid of any evidence of this, I'm far more wary of paying him top dollar on a long term deal.

 

[ON3M4N]

Whatever the Bruins would pursue would be a step backwards.
Yes I want Swayman to be a Bruin just like everyone else. He knows the system , he knows the defence etc.
Anyone else would have to start from square one.
Right now Korpisalo is looking more and more to be our starter. Fine. He has decent numbers on crappy teams. See what happens.
The guy I did want the Bruins to purse but just got signed by the Canucks was Lankinen.

Other than that anyone else who I say would be trashed by the Jeremy Swayman Hero Squad Fan Club.

That doesn't answer the question. If you had your choice of any goalie in the NHL, which goalies would you rather have than Swayman?

 

[Pia8988]

Of course you don't JUST look at what a player has done. You take into account they're growth and potential. That said, and I'll speak for myself, but my argument isn't about his stats today versus what they could be tomorrow. He's been relatively consistent stats wise. My concern is games played and I'm so tired of people saying "it's a disingenuous argument." Sorry, but it's an actual concern. He has enough body of work to know he's a top-10 goalie in the game while in a platoon. There's no evidence that when he starts playing 50-65 games a season that he'll be able to continue to put up those numbers, hell he even seemed to slow a bit after Christmas last year. Maybe just the ebb and flow of the season, maybe an injury, maybe fatigue? And it's not like we can look at his stats elsewhere, he's never started more than 44 games in a regular season. Not in college, not in the AHL. If you could look at a full season in Providence, or the OHL and see that he managed a workload that's required for a full-time starter, then I'd feel better at handing him the payday he's looking for today. However, devoid of any evidence of this, I'm far more wary of paying him top dollar on a long term deal.

50-55 is 10 more games. No one plays 65 anymore.

 

[SwayHeyKid]

If not wanting to over pay for a goaltender is a "really bad job" ................... just look at some other teams who just opened the vault on their tough negotiations. Leafs being primo example.

I mean they had a 5 million dollar goalie here as well they traded for 1.3 mil of net cap space, a future prospect, bad goalie and 4th liner. It’s not just about not having a contract with Swayman it’s how they got here as well.

Wouldn’t shock me if the Bruins want something like 4/32 and Swayman wants 6-8 years same money. They are about a year late w the bridge deal offer IMO

 

[Fingertools]

Exactly. He is a top 10 goalie. He might be closer to 4 than 10, but it's splitting hairs. Him getting paid at the 6th best goalie for 4 years and then a chance to break into that upper tier if he proves it just seems like an obvious win win here.

Except that during those 4 years, after Shesterkin, Oettinger, Demko and maybe more get paid he'll be closer to 10th.

 

[UncleRico]

What is the weird obsession with the management of this team? Is there a more pro management fanbase in hockey? Sports?

Haha idk but nothing like posting something saying “take this with a grain of salt” then getting blasted with a bunch of questions like I am the source of the rumors.

 

[Eddie Munson]

50-55 is 10 more games. No one plays 65 anymore.

just two years ago Saros played 67 and Hellebuyck 66. Multiple have hit 64 games the last two years.

10 more doesn't seem like a lot but it's legit 25% of what he's used to playing. That's a big increase.

 

[Pia8988]

just two years ago Saros played 67 and Hellebuyck 66. Multiple have hit 64 games the last two years.

10 more doesn't seem like a lot but it's legit 25% of what he's used to playing. That's a big increase.

It's essentially one game every two weeks. Not a concern. Some have, but it isn't the norm and shouldn't be the barometer. It's normally an indictment of the back up and a team being desperate down the stretch.

If that was an actual concern of the Bruins, they should have you know, played him more. This just looks like a scummy negotiation tactic. Bruins had 100% control of Swayman's ice time.

"We don't know how you would look if we made you our #1, we're going to do it, but not pay you for it"

 

[Kate08]

just two years ago Saros played 67 and Hellebuyck 66. Multiple have hit 64 games the last two years.

10 more doesn't seem like a lot but it's legit 25% of what he's used to playing. That's a big increase.

In addition to that, he's used to having Ullmark there. If he hit a skid or needed to rotate out, there was a level of confidence he and the team had in that 1B guy. Not the case anymore.

 

[Fingertools]

Of course you don't JUST look at what a player has done. You take into account they're growth and potential. That said, and I'll speak for myself, but my argument isn't about his stats today versus what they could be tomorrow. He's been relatively consistent stats wise. My concern is games played and I'm so tired of people saying "it's a disingenuous argument." Sorry, but it's an actual concern. He has enough body of work to know he's a top-10 goalie in the game while in a platoon. There's no evidence that when he starts playing 50-65 games a season that he'll be able to continue to put up those numbers, hell he even seemed to slow a bit after Christmas last year. Maybe just the ebb and flow of the season, maybe an injury, maybe fatigue? And it's not like we can look at his stats elsewhere, he's never started more than 44 games in a regular season. Not in college, not in the AHL. If you could look at a full season in Providence, or the OHL and see that he managed a workload that's required for a full-time starter, then I'd feel better at handing him the payday he's looking for today. However, devoid of any evidence of this, I'm far more wary of paying him top dollar on a long term deal.

Swayman played his best hockey from game 45 - 56 of his starts last year (last 12 in playoffs). So he has played enough to prove he can handle it.

 

[UncleRico]

Exactly. He is a top 10 goalie. He might be closer to 4 than 10, but it's splitting hairs. Him getting paid at the 6th best goalie for 4 years and then a chance to break into that upper tier if he proves it just seems like an obvious win win here.

so what is 6th goalie money for 4 years?

If you give him 6th best for 2024-2025, then next summer he will be 8th after shesterkin and Oettinger get paid. So he’s only be a top 6 goalie for 1 year.

Bruins would probably have to give him top 4 or 5 money for this year in order for him to average the 6th best goalie pay in the league for the life of his contract.

 

[Eddie Munson]

It's essentially one game every two weeks. Not a concern. Some have, but it isn't the norm and shouldn't be the barometer. It's normally an indictment of the back up and a team being desperate down the stretch.

If that was an actual concern of the Bruins, they should have you know, played him more. This just looks like a scummy negotiation tactic. Bruins had 100% control of Swayman's ice time.

"We don't know how you would look if we made you our #1, we're going to do it, but not pay you for it"

Regardless of it being 1 game every two weeks, it's a question mark. My primary reason for having issues with the Ullmark signing back in the day was his inability to take on a starters workload and to remain healthy. His wheelhouse seems to be 35-45 games a year but the moment the playoffs start he just wilts. Again, maybe he's not a playoff goalie, maybe it's fatigue, one year his body just broke down. So 10games may not seem like a lot but certain guys take on work loads differently.

You're quote at the bottom is legit how negotiations work. You don't pay the new CEO with limited experience what the old CEO of 20 years of experience had regardless of the fact he's the current CEO. You base if off what you know and what you don't know about said candidate based on their body of work and their potential.

 

[Hazelwig]

Regardless of it being 1 game every two weeks, it's a question mark. My primary reason for having issues with the Ullmark signing back in the day was his inability to take on a starters workload and to remain healthy. His wheelhouse seems to be 35-45 games a year but the moment the playoffs start he just wilts. Again, maybe he's not a playoff goalie, maybe it's fatigue, one year his body just broke down. So 10games may not seem like a lot but certain guys take on work loads differently.

You're quote at the bottom is legit how negotiations work. You don't pay the new CEO with limited experience what the old CEO of 20 years of experience had regardless of the fact he's the current CEO. You base if off what you know and what you don't know about said candidate based on their body of work and their potential.

Maybe this has been mentioned somewhere, but is there a world where the Bruins and Goalie Bob are dedicated to a fairly even load for their two goalies and that's what's been holding up the negotiation? As in Sweeney expressing that per start he's paying Swayman the same as some of these peers he comparing himself to? I realize it wont be 50/50 like it was with Ullmark, but even 55/45 is a lighter load than those horses we've mentioned. Once again, I'm confused by the Ullmark trade if this was always going to be a problem, but any thoughts on this being a critical aspect of the delay here?

 

[Hazelwig]

Maybe this has been mentioned somewhere, but is there a world where the Bruins and Goalie Bob are dedicated to a fairly even load for their two goalies and that's what's been holding up the negotiation? As in Sweeney expressing that per start he's paying Swayman the same as some of these peers he comparing himself to? I realize it wont be 50/50 like it was with Ullmark, but even 55/45 is a lighter load than those horses we've mentioned. Once again, I'm confused by the Ullmark trade if this was always going to be a problem, but any thoughts on this being a critical aspect of the delay here?

Replying to myself here: Ullmark was traded so we could get a 1st round pick. That was the beginning and end of the math on that decision.

 

[Eddie Munson]

Swayman played his best hockey from game 45 - 56 of his starts last year (last 12 in playoffs). So he has played enough to prove he can handle it.

Now how does he do from game 56-67 next year when he needs to start 50-55 games as a starter versus 40-45? Again, this is the question that I'm sure is hanging up the contract talks.

I don't think anyone is arguing his ability or potential. He just has never played more than 44 regular season games so how will it impact his playoffs or the end of the season when he's playing 10-15 more games before the playoffs?

To me, if the plan was to give him this role, and this is the question they're hung up on, then maybe they should have pushed more to have it answered before this point. That's 100% on management. Add in how upset he was with arbitration and the current comps and the fact now they sit with Korpo/Bussi, I see them needing to come up on their offer. That said, if Swayman is over 8.5m, then he's just being completely unrealistic.

Again, just my $0.02.

I also hate paying big money for goalies... And this is from a former goalie. How's that for setting the market .

 

[PaulD]

I mean they had a 5 million dollar goalie here as well they traded for 1.3 mil of net cap space, a future prospect, bad goalie and 4th liner. It’s not just about not having a contract with Swayman it’s how they got here as well.

Wouldn’t shock me if the Bruins want something like 4/32 and Swayman wants 6-8 years same money. They are about a year late w the bridge deal offer IMO

Swaymans agent would have little to interest in entertaining bridge contract a year ago.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

When you factor in age and contract. Oettinger.

Huh? He and Swayman are the same age and Oettinger has only 1 year left on his deal

 

[SwayHeyKid]

Swaymans agent would have little to interest in entertaining bridge contract a year ago.

What else did he tell you?

 

[Mad-Marcus]

That doesn't answer the question. If you had your choice of any goalie in the NHL, which goalies would you rather have than Swayman?

Helleybuck and Shesterkin, for sure. Workhorses and elite. Soroykin possibly, I believe he would be even better on a team like Boston.