Player Discussion Jeremy Swayman -V - all still silent

[EverettMike]

The Bruins only winning one Cup between 2009 and 2023 (when Bergeron and Krejci both retired hence me using that as a cutoff) is incredibly disappointing.

They had a couple of historic drafts coupled with an all-time free agent class at a time where it turned out they had two Hall of Fame goalies in the system. Then they got an amazing deal for Kessel that set them up to have a true dynastic run. And even then in the middle they had a chance to extend the whole thing via the draft but f***ed it up.

Stars taking hometown discounts did nothing to improve their chances at winning more Cups (the only thing that should count during the era of the Bruins) because the team never actually took advantage of those hometown discounts. The general managers left the team with major holes almost every season and a lot of warts got covered up by the goaltending.

Swayman doing the Bruins a "favor" won't matter in the slightest. If anything it might stop Don Sweeney from giving out yet another outrageous deal to a third pairing defenseman he'll inevitably have to buyout while the team carries dead cap space. Or I guess he can give away more draft picks that then hurt their chances of filling the roster with good players on rookie contracts.

 

[BTO]

How many threads do we think this is going before he signs/gets traded/sits the year?

Dec. 1 is a long way away.

 

[ranold26]

They had championship level high end talent on amazing deals....yet still always has major obvious holes! That's the type of problem hometown discounts are supposed to help with, but THEY NEVER DID.

There are ALWAYS guys on the roster that are overpaid, that eat up cap room. The Bruins need to be quicker to clean that up.... Gryz, Backes, Beleskey and others. The problem is that dead-cap space is worse than bad cap space in many cases.

 

[BTO]

For the record, I think that 7 is too low and 9 is too high, and 6.2 is ridiculous and 9.5-10 is absurd. If only there were a number somewhere between 7 and 9 they could settle on.

 

[BTO]

I’m confused about all the talk of trading him (although I’ve read so many DKH posts that I’m no longer able to distinguish between seriousness and irony). How can we “trade” him? He’s not under contract. Can’t we only trade his rights? Or what’s the deal?

 

[ranold26]

I’m confused about all the talk of trading him (although I’ve read so many DKH posts that I’m no longer able to distinguish between seriousness and irony). How can we “trade” him? He’s not under contract. Can’t we only trade his rights? Or what’s the deal?

RFAs need to be qualified to retain their rights. We did that.
Now we need to come to a contract agreement. We haven't done that yet.
If we can't agree to a contract, we can trade those rights, if need be. We're not at that point yet.

 

[BTO]

RFAs need to be qualified to retain their rights. We did that.
Now we need to come to a contract agreement. We haven't done that yet.
If we can't agree to a contract, we can trade those rights, if need be. We're not at that point yet.

Right, so we can’t “trade Swayman”, we can only trade his rights. Not that I want to. For the record.

 

[JOKER 192]

The craziest argument I read in every thread when a player is negotiating his next contract is " are you gonna haggle with your star player over a million , just get it done".

So 1M extra for Mac
1M for Pasta
Now we're talking at least 1M if not 2 for Sway.

Seems Sway wants the Mac contract.


This is the problem with this line if thinking.

Swayman, as good as he is doesn't have the credentials. He just doesn't.

His closest comparison is Sarros, he should consider himself lucky to get that contract. Sarros has proven more.

So the BS argument that he's looking out for the future goalies doesn't hold water. If that was true every goalie should be headhunting Sarros.

 

[Nothingbutglass]

The craziest argument I read in every thread when a player is negotiating his next contract is " are you gonna haggle with your star player over a million , just get it done".

So 1M extra for Mac
1M for Pasta
Now we're talking at least 1M if not 2 for Sway.

Seems Sway wants the Mac contract.


This is the problem with this line if thinking.

Swayman, as good as he is doesn't have the credentials. He just doesn't.

His closest comparison is Sarros, he should consider himself lucky to get that contract. Sarros has proven more.

So the BS argument that he's looking out for the future goalies doesn't hold water. If that was true every goalie should be headhunting Sarros.

Its called Leafing it. Its how you end up with 2 11 million dollar wingers and zero playoff success.

 

[NDiesel]

Because Swayman hasn't even had a bridge deal yet. He took a 1yr ARB deal.
Pasta and McAvoy had bridge deals, with Pasta taking a criminally undervalued bridge deal and deservedly getting a top long-term 3rd contract.
I see can both sides in the Swayman issue, but Swayman is trying to bank a year or two early. imo

I don't really think agents or players care what deal other guys got their big payday on. If you are a key piece of the core moving forward frankly it shouldn't really matter if this is your 1st 2nd or 8th deal.

It's very similar to the Toronto situation if you ask me. Not a chance Matthews or Marner were going to take a lot less than JT just because he was a UFA cashing in and they are RFAs. Sway looks at the guys who are core pieces here and sees that they got their piece, not that they got their piece on deal 3.

 

[BamBamCam]

What a weird position.

A very, very important position, but a weird one.

Andrew Raycroft wins the Calder trophy, and holds out so they bring Tim Thomas back over from Europe.

Eventually, Raycroft gets dealt for Tuukka Rask.

Great goal tending does not guarantee playoff success, but bad goaltending will certainly torpedo your chances at winning a Cup.

I honestly don’t know what either side does in this scenario. The timing is really awkward in terms of Swayman being restricted, but also looking to cash in.

Both sides are clearly playing a public Croatians game.

The Bruins’ flagship radio station is using the term “holdout” in its hourly update despite this, not technically being a holdout situation.

Feels like a game of chicken.

Imagine this place in a post game thread if Swayman isn’t signed come November and they lose because Korpisalo lets in a softie?

When did Raycroft ever hold out??

 

[smithformeragent]

When did Raycroft ever hold out??

Coming out of the lockout.

O’Connell brought Thomas back as leverage and Raycroft signed.

 

[BamBamCam]

Coming out of the lockout.

O’Connell brought Thomas back as leverage and Raycroft signed.

Due to the 2004–05 NHL lockout, Raycroft signed with Djurgårdens IF of the Swedish Elitserien on November 6, 2004.[1] However, he did not play any games for the team and signed with Tappara Tampere of the Finnish SM-liiga several months later on January 17, 2005.[1] When NHL play resumed, he struggled with the Bruins in the 2005–06 season, managing only eight wins while being a healthy scratch for the majority of the season. He was demoted to the Bruins' third-string position to starter Tim Thomas and rookie backup Hannu Toivonen.

 

[smithformeragent]

Due to the 2004–05 NHL lockout, Raycroft signed with Djurgårdens IF of the Swedish Elitserien on November 6, 2004.[1] However, he did not play any games for the team and signed with Tappara Tampere of the Finnish SM-liiga several months later on January 17, 2005.[1] When NHL play resumed, he struggled with the Bruins in the 2005–06 season, managing only eight wins while being a healthy scratch for the majority of the season. He was demoted to the Bruins' third-string position to starter Tim Thomas and rookie backup Hannu Toivonen.

B's open camp without Raycroft, Boynton

Andrew Raycroft and Nick Boynton held out in contract disputes at the opening of training camp.

www.espn.com

Obviously they end up dealing him for Rask.

Kind of crazy that he ended up working for NESN considering how things went down.

 

[RI.B FAN]

They had championship level high end talent on amazing deals....yet still always has major obvious holes! That's the type of problem hometown discounts are supposed to help with, but THEY NEVER DID.

Every team has holes, some bigger than others! I'll let you all have fun with this one

 

[SwayHeyKid]

Its called Leafing it. Its how you end up with 2 11 million dollar wingers and zero playoff success.

To be fair and the same amount of first round wins the past three seasons as our beloved. Honestly thank God for the Leafs because without them this Bruins run would not be as good as it was without getting to beat them all those times.

 

[SwayHeyKid]

The craziest argument I read in every thread when a player is negotiating his next contract is " are you gonna haggle with your star player over a million , just get it done".

So 1M extra for Mac
1M for Pasta
Now we're talking at least 1M if not 2 for Sway.

Seems Sway wants the Mac contract.


This is the problem with this line if thinking.

Swayman, as good as he is doesn't have the credentials. He just doesn't.

His closest comparison is Sarros, he should consider himself lucky to get that contract. Sarros has proven more.

So the BS argument that he's looking out for the future goalies doesn't hold water. If that was true every goalie should be headhunting Sarros.

You do know the next play-off round Saros wins will be his first right? I do realize however that at some point this place has evolved into a regular season success fanbase.

 

[Bruins4Lifer]

You do know the next play-off round Saros wins will be his first right? I do realize however that at some point this place has evolved into a regular season success fanbase.

Rest easy then. Korpisalo has the same career playoff sv% as Swayman, and playoff series wins (against the Leafs too, to boot!

 

[GordonHowe]

 

[ON3M4N]

All three already had their ELC and a 2nd bridge undervalued contract before getting their big lengthy 3rd contract.

Your comment was Swayman would be in camp if he wanted to be there. No player is going to camp without a contract (unless their a PTO talent).

 

[ON3M4N]

Because Swayman hasn't even had a bridge deal yet. He took a 1yr ARB deal.
Pasta and McAvoy had bridge deals, with Pasta taking a criminally undervalued bridge deal and deservedly getting a top long-term 3rd contract.
I see can both sides in the Swayman issue, but Swayman is trying to bank a year or two early. imo

Pastrnak's "bridge deal" was a 6yr deal that took him right to UFA status. He had a single 30 goal season under his belt. His deal in today's NHL would be a $7.8 million cap hit. Not sure I'd say it was criminally undervalued when he signed the deal.

McAvoy bridge deal came after having just 117 regular season games played over 2 seasons.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

What did that get any of them? Zero cups. No one on the 2011 team had taken a hometown discount. Some guys were underpaid, but no one specifically signed for less than that could have like some stars did after 2011.

The new era of Bruins likely saw how little it mattered in the end as Sweeney was never able to leverage it into a Cup win (or more). Cannot blame either core of players.

 

[BlackFrancis]

His deal in today's NHL would be a $7.8 million cap hit.

Given the bushel of recent, young offensive players signing for around $8m right out of their ELCs, and given what David has evolved into, that was a bargain and a half.

 

[Dr Quincy]

The craziest argument I read in every thread when a player is negotiating his next contract is " are you gonna haggle with your star player over a million , just get it done".

So 1M extra for Mac
1M for Pasta
Now we're talking at least 1M if not 2 for Sway.

Seems Sway wants the Mac contract.


This is the problem with this line if thinking.

Swayman, as good as he is doesn't have the credentials. He just doesn't.

His closest comparison is Sarros, he should consider himself lucky to get that contract. Sarros has proven more.

So the BS argument that he's looking out for the future goalies doesn't hold water. If that was true every goalie should be headhunting Sarros.

The "credentials" argument is never going to be resolved here. There are 2 different philosophies about paying players:

1)Pay players for what they've done thus far in their careers- The rationale for this is you are paying a player for their actual demonstrated (and possible sustained) level of performance. The downside/risk is that you are paying a player for performance already gone and not necessarily for what they are going to do while under that new contract.

2) Pay players for what you think they are going to do under that new contract- The rationale is that you don't want to pay a player for what they've done in the past, but rather what they'll be. Locking a young player long term while "overpaying" in the first couple years is that you trust this player is going to outperform their contract and you won't have to worry about the UFA years when the price would be even higher. The risk is the player doesn't turn out to be what you think he is.

Teams in the past have typically gone for #1. This means you usually "win" on most of your contracts on young players and RFAs, but lose on older players and UFAs, because they are either no longer worth the $ as soon as they sign that contract and almost never going forward.

Many teams are now moving towards #2. See the recent contracts of Dylan Guenther and Seth Jarvis. Teams are betting on guys they've identified as cornerstone pieces and locking them up. It means they might be overpaying for the 1st couple years but will potentially have bargains as they get to what would have been the 3rd contract.

There's lots of issues I have with the people arguing for the #1 type philosophy but there's one main issue I have with it in regards to Swayman, and it's this:
The huge majority of people now saying Swayman hasn't proven anything and doesn't "deserve" to be paid like a top 5 goalie are the same people who all during the season were talking about Swayman being a top 5 goalie and an untouchable player on the team. They were all for trading a vezina winning Ullmark in order to clear the way for Sway. There was almost no talk of "Well maybe we shouldn't... maybe Sway can't handle a 60 game load.

I'd just like to imagine this scenario- All goalies in the NHL are miraculously made UFAs. Name all of the goalies you'd take ahead of Swayman to be your goalie for the next 8 years.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Rest easy then. Korpisalo has the same career playoff sv% as Swayman, and playoff series wins (against the Leafs too, to boot!

The bulk of Korpisalo's playoff success was in the weird bubble covid playoffs. It counts, but I don't think it counts quite as much as normal years.

Even in that playoff, when faced with elimination he had a sv% of .800 and gave up 5 goals to get his team eliminated.
In his 2nd playoff run (a normal season in which his playoff numbers in general were bad) when faced with elimination he also let in 5 goals with a sv% of .808

This year Swayman faced elimination in 3 games. His save pcts: 968, 966 and 923. And gave up a total of 4 goals in those games.