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Player Discussion Jeremy Swayman: A return to excellence?

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Bradely said:
I can only say I totally disagree with you.
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Show me the last Vezina finalist on a bad hockey team?

@mar2kbos is 100% correct. Sure, a great goalie can steal you an odd game now and then, but he isn't going to carry a bad team. Henrik Lundqvist is the perfect example. Now, the Rangers are repeating the mistake with Shesterkin. The ONE exception might be Jonathan Quick on that 2012 Kings team.

Any goalie is only gonna play 50-55 games for you anyway, and the difference between a top tier guy making $8+mil, and a middle of the pack guy making $4-5mil is about 1 goal every 5-7 games. That doesn't move the needle enough to justify the salary. You're better off with a mid-tier goalie and using that money to strengthen the lineup in front of him.

Overpaying for so-called elite goaltending is one of the biggest mistakes a club can make. You'd have thought that teams would have learned after Carey Price......nope.
 
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RoccoF14 said:
Show me the last Vezina finalist on a bad hockey team?

@mar2kbos is 100% correct. Sure, a great goalie can steal you an odd game now and then, but he isn't going to carry a bad team. Henrik Lundqvist is the perfect example. Now, the Rangers are repeating the mistake with Shesterkin. The ONE exception might be Jonathan Quick on that 2012 Kings team.

Any goalie is only gonna play 50-55 games for you anyway, and the difference between a top tier guy making $8+mil, and a middle of the pack guy making $4-5mil is about 1 goal every 5-7 games. That doesn't move the needle enough to justify the salary. You're better off with a mid-tier goalie and using that money to strengthen the lineup in front of him.

Overpaying for so-called elite goaltending is one of the biggest mistakes a club can make. You'd have thought that teams would have learned after Carey Price......nope.
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This! Well said.
 
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Dicky113 said:
Insane how we might have the three worst contracts in the nhl on this team right now, all brand new deals. This is going to be a brutal decade for bruins fans
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I think if you clear out the trash they each look better. Move Coyle and you can live with E Lindholm worst case scenario as 3C. Carlo and Zad can't play together if you move the biggest p***y in the NHL as someone accurately called him earlier Zad is ok at the same cap hit.

Been obvious since the first game vs Florida that those two losers took the summer off showed up out of shape and have mailed it in. Sweeney being too much of a loser to trade either needs to go.
 
RoccoF14 said:
Show me the last Vezina finalist on a bad hockey team?

@mar2kbos is 100% correct. Sure, a great goalie can steal you an odd game now and then, but he isn't going to carry a bad team. Henrik Lundqvist is the perfect example. Now, the Rangers are repeating the mistake with Shesterkin. The ONE exception might be Jonathan Quick on that 2012 Kings team.

Any goalie is only gonna play 50-55 games for you anyway, and the difference between a top tier guy making $8+mil, and a middle of the pack guy making $4-5mil is about 1 goal every 5-7 games. That doesn't move the needle enough to justify the salary. You're better off with a mid-tier goalie and using that money to strengthen the lineup in front of him.

Overpaying for so-called elite goaltending is one of the biggest mistakes a club can make. You'd have thought that teams would have learned after Carey Price......nope.
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Those Darryl Sutter coached Kings teams were rock solid defensively along with Quick being a top tier guy.

Does Tampa make 3 straight cup finals with a mid-level guy?

Last year's champ had 14 million tied up in their goalies. Bob made the same 10 million as Carey Price.

I'm still amazed how Lundqvist got that 2013-14 Rangers team to a finals. That wasn't a line-up loaded with stars.

Do you absolutely need to have a top goalie to win? No. But it sure helps. You look at the franchises that had those never-ending rebuilds in the cap era (Buffalo since the mid 2010s, Toronto and Edmonton in the earlier part of the cap era), one consistent factor was they all lacked a top tier goalie. Some would argue they still do.

All sorts of praise here for the Caps locking up Logan Thompson after 20 something games in their crease at 5.85 and shitting on Swayman's deal. 2.4 million in difference on the cap, peanuts really, Bruins usually got that much tied up in buy-outs and retained salary. Peanuts today, even less of an impact with the cap set to jump drastically in the next 3 years. A mere 2% of the cap. What are you getting for that extra 2.4 million with a 113 million cap?
 
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BruinDust said:
Those Darryl Sutter coached Kings teams were rock solid defensively along with Quick being a top tier guy.

Does Tampa make 3 straight cup finals with a mid-level guy?

Last year's champ had 14 million tied up in their goalies. Bob made the same 10 million as Carey Price.

I'm still amazed how Lundqvist got that 2013-14 Rangers team to a finals. That wasn't a line-up loaded with stars.

Do you absolutely need to have a top goalie to win? No. But it sure helps. You look at the franchises that had those never-ending rebuilds in the cap era (Buffalo since the mid 2010s, Toronto and Edmonton in the earlier part of the cap era), one consistent factor was they all lacked a top tier goalie. Some would argue they still do.

All sorts of praise here for the Caps locking up Logan Thompson after 20 something games in their crease at 5.85 and shitting on Swayman's deal. 2.4 million in difference on the cap, peanuts really, Bruins usually got that much tied up in buy-outs and retained salary. Peanuts today, even less of an impact with the cap set to jump drastically in the next 3 years. A mere 2% of the cap. What are you getting for that extra 2.4 million with a 113 million cap?
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Lundqvist channeled Dominik Hasek, just an incredible run. Rags just didn't have enough to get over the line.

As for Swayman that hold out hurt his preparation no question about it. He's been behind the curve all season and as a result I don't expect much from him until next season. He got what he wanted though- the #1 spot and the pay day to go with it. It remains to be seen if he has bitten off more than he can chew.
 
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BigGoalBrad said:
We should have stuck with the tandem and let Swayman sit out. Ullmark could have been moved at the deadline. Or even extended below market value if he loved Boston so much.
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They played the situation all wrong. As soon as they dumped Ullmark they shot themselves in the foot and Swayman and his agent knew he had the leverage instead of the other way around
 
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BB79 said:
They played the situation all wrong. As soon as they dumped Ullmark they shot themselves in the foot and Swayman and his agent knew he had the leverage instead of the other way around
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Absolutely. I don't give a damn about "asset management", those 2 were the best goalie tandem in the NHL. Sweeney should have told Swayman take a bridge deal, you can be #1 when Ullmark becomes UFA otherwise you can pound sand. Nope, the smartest man in the room decided to trade Ullmark instead.
 
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BMC said:
Lundqvist channeled Dominik Hasek, just an incredible run. Rags just didn't have enough to get over the line.

As for Swayman that hold out hurt his preparation no question about it. He's been behind the curve all season and as a result I don't expect much from him until next season. He got what he wanted though- the #1 spot and the pay day to go with it. It remains to be seen if he has bitten off more than he can chew.
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Swayman, holdout hurt his preparation, self inflicted, his holdout hurt his team, and I hope his preparation is somewhere else next year, move him before his NTC kicks in.
 
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Probably a good joke to be written about presidents and goalies attending the same business school if anyone wants to invest a few infraction points

Ps see you in a couple days
 
RoccoF14 said:
Show me the last Vezina finalist on a bad hockey team?

@mar2kbos is 100% correct. Sure, a great goalie can steal you an odd game now and then, but he isn't going to carry a bad team. Henrik Lundqvist is the perfect example. Now, the Rangers are repeating the mistake with Shesterkin. The ONE exception might be Jonathan Quick on that 2012 Kings team.

Any goalie is only gonna play 50-55 games for you anyway, and the difference between a top tier guy making $8+mil, and a middle of the pack guy making $4-5mil is about 1 goal every 5-7 games. That doesn't move the needle enough to justify the salary. You're better off with a mid-tier goalie and using that money to strengthen the lineup in front of him.

Overpaying for so-called elite goaltending is one of the biggest mistakes a club can make. You'd have thought that teams would have learned after Carey Price......nope.
Click to expand...
We were so spoiled lately with Thomas, Rask and Ullmark/Swayman tandem that we did forget what it is like to have average and bad goaltending.

Do you believe a rebuild can be effective without top goaltending? You consider that a top goaltender or tandem will not be important in the success of a team? Last year Boston was a consequence in my opinion of the excellence of the goalkeepers. The impact on a group with great goaltending can also be mental IMO! Flyers had been struggling with bad goaltending for years.... I ask the question, would Boston still have beaten Toronto through their last confrontation if the goalkeepers had been swapped!!!!

Winning teams Examples are Tampa, Boston, LA, Chicago to name those since 2011 (SC). Last year president winner Ranger! Hellebuyck and the Jets. Price as you brought it in the discussion still brought a more than ordinary team to the SC final. And Price did maintain a not so good team above the water level and was a great Mtl ticket seller. Price was a star!

Concerning the salary, I always considered risky to pay any player on length and high amount (minus a few exception). In Sway case, IMO nothing was proved to negotiate this year contract and I was all on a brigde deal. I did not beleive by definition that Sway had proven anything. He was part of a great tandem, but playing alone number One is a different animal. We will see how it will age and before screaming Sweeny is dumb, I will wait how it ages Maybe at the end of this deal, some will say finally he was a genius. Also, players negotiation are useably based on past numbers and expectation future potentiel. It is risky especially in the case of goaltending to project in the futur! But it is how it works.

You can refer to the chicken or egg that comes first as you wish but I maintain my pov, a winning team needs at least one good top Keeper, one good top center and one good top defensemen performance. Boston this year don't have any players playing at a top level with consistency (Pasta being the exception for some stretch).

My response was to a poster pretending that keepers can not win w/o a supporting group. But that is right for everyone/players in hockey, that is why it is a TEAM sport. NO best players in the world CAN win without a minimum supporting group (Oilers Drai and McDavid up to now, Mathews and Marner and Tavares and and and in Leafs case current example) if the only évaluation is based on winning the SC. Pretending this is only applicable to goalkeepers related to bad contracts is IMO dumb and I disagree with that opinion.

If their is one position IMO that can be a difference maker on a specific game, or PO series and on PO run, it is in net!
 
Hookslide said:
You are right, and Bradley is wrong.......move Sway, Columbus being rumored for Petterson, if you are going to pay all that money for Petterson, you are in need of a goalie. Philadelphia are you listening.
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How is moving or not Swayman correlated to what I wrote.
 
Eddie Munson said:
He’s already started 37 this year. His max ever played in a full season (reg & post) is 56. With 29 games left, even with just an even split, he’d end the year with 51 games. Fatigue is definitely a possible factor here.
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It’s almost like it’s not the best idea to throw both $$ and term at a guy that is promising but has never carried a full #1 goalie load, or something.

Who would have thunk it?
 
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