Jeremy Roenick, Shea Weber and Pavel Datsyuk inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame

[Sentinel]

Big miss on Weber.

Everyone is forgetting the many years Weber was considered a top 5 dman in the league. There were even years he was considered the best or second best.

He’s not much different than a Keith or Doughty who are both locks for the HOF. Weber played for a mediocre team though.

Keith and Doughty actually won the Norris.

Weber suffered from the Brad Park syndrome, being second best defensemen in Norris voting while Lidstrom/Chara/Keith/Doughty won it in given years.

Park was second to Orr and Potvin. Except Lidstrom, all of Weber's competition is not quite up there.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

I'm surprised that so many people are questioning Weber's induction. It shows the flaw in counting trophies as a binary (yes or no) outcome. Weber was consistently one of the best defensemen in the league for close to a decade.

There's a big difference between someone who repeatedly comes close to winning a trophy, and someone who was never close at all (ie Kevin Lowe, Leo Boivin). There are plenty of great defensemen who never won a Norris but at least came close on multiple occasions (Brad Park, Borje Salming, Scott Stevens, Tim Horton, etc). There's plenty of precedent for Weber being inducted.

The simplest argument? Weber placed in the top five for the Norris trophy 5 times in his career. 24 other defensemen in NHL history have done that. Every single one that's eligible is in the Hall of Fame. (The only "exceptions" are Erik Karlsson and Victor Hedman, who are still active, and who will obviously be inducted in the future).

From 2009 to 2017 (a span of nine seasons), Weber finished 3rd in the NHL in votes for the Norris trophy (normalized so each year is worth the same number of votes) - behind Karlsson and Chara, but ahead of some big names like Doughty and Keith. During his peak (2011 to 2015 - five season), even though he didn't win the Norris, he was easily the leader in votes during that period (ahead of Chara, Karlsson, Subban and Keith).

 

[Sentinel]

If you wanna take some of those guys (though no way on Francis, also not at all Modano or Sakic at that time) over Roenick as second to Lemieux be my guest, I don't even necessarily disagree, but don't pretend that he wasn't up there, and that isn't flattering to him to be up there with those guys given how good they themselves were.

Hockey Digest used to do player rankings and they got not only media people but coaches/scouts to give input, Roenick looks real good in the early nineties:

• after 1991-1992, rated second best center after Lemieux
• after 1992-1993, rated third best center after Lemieux and LaFontaine

Gretzky and Lemieux are easily #1 and #2. Yzerman and Fedorov were clearly #3 and 4. The rest are still comfortably above Roenick. And I even forgot Lafontaine.

 

[Soundgarden]

Keith and Doughty actually won the Norris.


Park was second to Orr and Potvin. Except Lidstrom, all of Weber's competition is not quite up there.

Weber is on par with Keith and Doughty despite not winning a Norris, he's came within 20 something votes of winning two and he was clearly the better player the year Keith won his 2nd.

 

[MessierThanThou]

I'm surprised that so many people are questioning Weber's induction. It shows the flaw in counting trophies as a binary (yes or no) outcome. Weber was consistently one of the best defensemen in the league for close to a decade.

There's a big difference between someone who repeatedly comes close to winning a trophy, and someone who was never close at all (ie Kevin Lowe, Leo Boivin). There are plenty of great defensemen who never won a Norris but at least came close on multiple occasions (Brad Park, Borje Salming, Scott Stevens, Tim Horton, etc). There's plenty of precedent for Weber being inducted.

The simplest argument? Weber placed in the top five for the Norris trophy 5 times in his career. 24 other defensemen in NHL history have done that. Every single one that's eligible is in the Hall of Fame. (The only "exceptions" are Erik Karlsson and Victor Hedman, who are still active, and who will obviously be inducted in the future).

From 2009 to 2017 (a span of nine seasons), Weber finished 3rd in the NHL in votes for the Norris trophy (normalized so each year is worth the same number of votes) - behind Karlsson and Chara, but ahead of some big names like Doughty and Keith. During his peak (2011 to 2015 - five season), even though he didn't win the Norris, he was easily the leader in votes during that period (ahead of Chara, Karlsson, Subban and Keith).

Your argument is pretty conclusive for Weber's induction. Five seasons where he was considered one of the best at his position is definitely HOF-worthy. Two seasons where Hockey Digest voted Roenick the second-best center in the league but no All-Star nods or individual hardware? Yeah...no.

Datsyuk is a no-brainer, Weber makes sense. Mogilny was snubbed. And even Elias was a better pick than Roenick. Zetterberg is borderline despite the Smythe due to the shorter career.

 

[sensfan4lifee]

Scot Wheeler is wrong 100%

Lars-Erik Sjoberg was the first Euro Captain in the NHL

This is exactly the kind of thing I’m talking about. The committee is eventually going to buckle and let Mogilny in because we’ve got people like Wheeler out there giving him objectively incorrect credentials, or subjectively incorrect credentials like throwing around “triple gold club” devoid of context.

It’s wild that every year, these people complain about the low standards of the HHOF while actively contributing to making them even lower.

I agree that Mogilny is a hofer but so are Weber and Roenick

 

[Duffy13]

Big year next year in the Brad Richards, Gary Suter, Eric Stall households

Suck it Mogilny, you wait another year!!!

 

[voyageur]

Moginy not in again?

Of the 7 inducted today.....Moginy is as deserving as 3 ......and far more deserving than 4.

Theo Fleury should be in before Mogilny...PPG regular season and playoffs...1 Stanley Cup. Gold Medal 2002. 1000 pt. player as well, unlike the new crop of "legends."

 

[Armourboy]

Lots of people forgetting this is the Hockey Hall of Fame, not the NHL hall of fame. Weber may not have the awards ( which was BS) or cup in the NHL, but his record in international competition has to be included. The NHL plays its part, but it isn't the only place hockey is played.

 

[MessierThanThou]

Theo Fleury should be in before Mogilny...PPG regular season and playoffs...1 Stanley Cup. Gold Medal 2002. 1000 pt. player as well, unlike the new crop of "legends."

He lacks Mogilny's peak play and all-star nods but for consistency, maybe! He was kind of a passenger for his Cup win much like Mogilny was in Jersey, so I feel like that's more a luck of the draw accolade. Either way, Theo's definitely more deserving than Roenick, Leo Boivin, Lowe, or Clark Gilles.

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

Where is RBA. Where is Eliáš. Where is T. Fleury. Where is Mogilny.

Suck my dick league.

I actually don’t mind Weber. He was an absolute terror whenever I saw him dressed in Team Canada jersey.

 

[DapperCam]

Unlike the postgame show after the Chicago Blackhawks won the Stanley Cup, the HHOF induction ceremony will be an appropriate place for Roenick to cry and make everything about himself.

 

[InfinityIggy]

He’s a bit of a goober but it’s nice to see Roenick finally get in.

 

[Jumptheshark]

got no problem with the list

 

[Aladyyn]

Roenick over Mogilny is a complete joke

Seems like people have already forgotten about the travesty that was the 2011 Norris voting. Weber has a Norris in my book, easy HoF lock.

 

[Felidae]

Weber over Mogilny is a joke.

Shea Weber over Mogilny is a choice.

Weber is the induction that's being questioned?

He was Norris finalist 3 times, 2 of which he was a runner up. He also finished just outside of being a Norris finalist twice. That's 5 seasons where he was considered a top 2-5 defenseman.

He absolutely deserves it over Mogilny if we're basing it strictly off on ice play.


If anything, the induction that's head scratching is Jeremy Roenick. His peak was just as short as Mogilny's, without the significance of being the first Russian player to defect from the Soviet Union.

 

[Dr Pepper]

My guess is that you are going to be saying this forever.

Weber and Dats were easy choices and I loved Jeremy with the Black Hawks but injuries and he still managed to get in glad for him.

Seems like it; he's overlooked every year and no one can figure out why.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Datsyuk should have made it earlier.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

I'm amazed in the poll here Weber was only at 20 votes as of this morning. He seemed clear as day a lock to get in 1st year, he was well praised his total career.

The Mogliny obsession online is weird. Yes, he deserves to get in, but what has changed? Roenick has desvered to be in for over a decade too. Where was the passion for him?

Elias was a better hockey player than JR, had international success and won two Stanley Cups. Weber got in because he was Canadian and played for Montreal.

Datsyuk should have made it earlier.

Agreed, europeans and defensive impact are discredited unless you play in Canada.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Flawed or not, point share from hockeyreference seems to be the only site trying to substantiate defense. Unfortunately, they don't calculate for playoffs or internationally but it is a good starting point.

NHL & WHA Career Leaders and Records for Point Shares | Hockey-Reference.com

1. Wayne Gretzky (251.01), 2. Ray Bourque (242.69), 3. Roberto Luongo (217.84), 4. Gordie Howe (217.11), 5. Jaromír Jágr (217.06), 6. Nicklas Lidström (211.77), 7. Martin Brodeur (206.97), 8. Alex Ovechkin (204.81), 9. Patrick Roy (198.34), 10. Al MacInnis (195.01)

www.hockey-reference.com

 

[waitin425]

No problem with this list.

I will say though....if Roenick is in.....all the Perry HHOF talk should be over. He will be in for sure.

 

[Machinehead]

Shea Weber being a first ballot Hall of Famer just doesn't seem right to me.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Datsyuk is a hall of famer but Roenick is not better than Tikkanen.

 

[mikelvl]

This is the worst HOF voting process of all of the major sports. Let the writers decide.

 

[DamonDRW]

One of these is not like the others.