Value of: Jeff Petry

[pth2]

I get that fans might want the Pens to get younger, but if the idea is to stay competitive while Malkin, Crosby and Letang are still around, Petry's a good one to keep as well. Then in 2-3 years, you start from scratch. A rebuild on a team with no more bad contracts could go pretty quickly.

 

[n8]

at his age and $6.25M cap hit, I imagine he does not get enough value for the Pens to accept the offer. He's not even a UFA after this season so that extra year is both good news / bad news. I'm not sure about the details of his M-NTC/NMC, but that can't help his value either.

 

[Djp]

Yeah, it's still more teams than you're making it out to be.

And again, who said anything about the Penguins not being able to take back money? This hypothetical is about what Petry's value would be if the Penguins decided to trade him. If that value is a 2nd and a B prospect, but it requires the Penguins to take back an overpaid #4 defensemen, that's still value.

The issue was unloading his salary to create cap space.

as I said the trade would be different if it were closer to cap neutral.

buffalo, Detroit, New Jersey, and Carolina are thr possible playoff contenders with space the next 1-2 years.

25 teams have salary they want to move. Space abpvailable vs players offered lowers their return.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Hahahaha we still posting war charts to compare players in 2023

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

Petry doesn’t seem like an issue to the Pens and like others have said you create a 2RD hole if you trade him. Need to fix
Goaltending
Bottom6
1LD
Zucker replacement

If trading Petry can help one of those while 2RD is filled then fine.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The issue was unloading his salary to create cap space.

as I said the trade would be different if it were closer to cap neutral.

buffalo, Detroit, New Jersey, and Carolina are thr possible playoff contenders with space the next 1-2 years.

25 teams have salary they want to move. Space abpvailable vs players offered lowers their return.

You literally just keep ignoring me saying "there is no reason the Penguins can't take back money for him".

No one was talking about dumping Petry to get his cap space open. Stop trying to make that the scenario even though I'm telling you that's not the scenario. The discussion is about his value. If he can bring back a 2nd and a B prospect, but the Penguins have to take money back to make the deal work, that means his value is a 2nd and a B prospect.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Why would the Pens trade him? It seems like the plan is (and should be) trying to maximize the tail end of Crosby, Malkin, and Letang’s careers. Then when the wheels fall off, let ‘em fall and build anew. And Petry seems to fit in just fine with that plan?

 

[Gurglesons]

Why would the Pens trade him? It seems like the plan is (and should be) trying to maximize the tail end of Crosby, Malkin, and Letang’s careers. Then when the wheels fall off, let ‘em fall and build anew. And Petry seems to fit in just fine with that plan?

Some pens fans for some reason think Petry sucks.

 

[Petes2424]

They're effectively identical players analytically.

I would expect something along the lines that Ekholm brought back, not necessarily the exact trade but the general value. I think a 2nd and a B prospect is pretty reasonable for that, granted the 2nd is mid to high. The Ekholm trade was effectively a 1st and a B prospect. Ekholm is a bit more valuable due to being a few years younger, but it's not anything substantial.

That’s why people have problems with many analytics. Not all analytics, but some. This is a perfect example, why most managers use analytics as informational, more than some sort of guide to building their team.

Ekholm just got done showing everyone he can play the hard minutes Petry has always struggled to play. Petry has always been closer to a Brodie.. he can be, or at least has been able to be, a really good role player, but when you ask him to carry a pair, his bad traits start showing themselves.

Look at the teams who succeed in the playoffs. They have 2-3 dmen who can carry the play, and then the supporting, role playing types to fill the gaps. Ekholm is in that first category, while Petry is in the second.

 

[DrDangles]

I don't see a realistic trade where the Pens move Petry and end up better off on RD, but I suppose I would move him if we could sign Severson in FA. I don't think that really makes the team better next season, but I'm much more confident in Severson's ability to stay healthy for 80 games than I am Petry.

 

[pth2]

.... Petry has always been closer to a Brodie.. he can be, or at least has been able to be, a really good role player, but when you ask him to carry a pair, his bad traits start showing themselves...

Not sure I agree, Petry can play as a top-pairing defenseman for long stretches.... his key issue is inconsistency, he'll also have 15-game stretches where his confidence is shot and he is just terrible out there. And then he'll build himself back up and be a #1 guy once again.

I guess his rough patches are easier to tolerate when he's a #2 guy, and can be sheltered to a certain extent.

 

[Empoleon8771]

That’s why people have problems with many analytics. Not all analytics, but some. This is a perfect example, why most managers use analytics as informational, more than some sort of guide to building their team.

Ekholm just got done showing everyone he can play the hard minutes Petry has always struggled to play. Petry has always been closer to a Brodie.. he can be, or at least has been able to be, a really good role player, but when you ask him to carry a pair, his bad traits start showing themselves.

Look at the teams who succeed in the playoffs. They have 2-3 dmen who can carry the play, and then the supporting, role playing types to fill the gaps. Ekholm is in that first category, while Petry is in the second.

I mean those charts show that both players play similarly challenging minutes based on QoC. Ekholm is better defensively than Petry, which I think would make him better in those tougher matchups, but it's not a huge difference between the two.

I also don't agree that Petry is a supporting player at all. Petry carries his D pair, the same as Ekholm does.

 

[bossram]

Hahahaha we still posting war charts to compare players in 2023

I mean, it's miles better than people citing +/- to evaluate players, as many people still do in 2023.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

The Ekholm comparison was in the context of the other person saying that Petry had "zero value". The Ekholm return would be a best case scenario for Petry, but the returns suggested in here (2nd and B prospect) aren't far off from that and a hell of a lot more than the "zero value" than the OP suggested.

I agree with you that he doesn’t have zero value. But I think at most the absolute highest pay we would get for him would be just a flat 2nd. More likely a 3rd and a long shot prospect.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

Why would the Pens trade him? It seems like the plan is (and should be) trying to maximize the tail end of Crosby, Malkin, and Letang’s careers. Then when the wheels fall off, let ‘em fall and build anew. And Petry seems to fit in just fine with that plan?

In a vacuum I don’t mind Petry on the roster. It’s just we have to much money dedicated on the backend to too old players. We had Ty Smith stuck in the minors all last season except for I believe a few games due to injury call up. The defense just needs to get cheaper and younger. The defense needs retooled. The team also needs to make space cap wise to figure out it’s goalie situation while rebuilding the bottom six depth. Simply it’s not that Petry sucks. He doesn’t. It’s just he isn’t a fit for how the team needs some cap flexibility to retool itself for the next couple of years. If he isn’t trade he isn’t traded. I think he can still play and play well playing second fiddle behind Letang. It’s just if the team can get better by creating roster and cap flexibility moving him I’m all for it. The section of Pens fans that think Petry suck are loud and a minority. Majority of Pens fans have a nuanced opinion of him to varying degrees of mine.

 

[jellybeans]

To Montreal for FLA 1st rounder

Your brain is pickled.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Petry's player card was from last off-season and this Ekholm player card was from a few months ago. Again, they're still very similar analytically.

Ekholm's a bit better defensively and Petry's a bit better offensively, but they're both 2-way #2 defensemen who bring size and physicality.

Here’s the Petry card with 2022-23 data, if you were wondering why he was so reluctant to post it. Pretty plainly shows a defenceman in decline, definitely not one that’s similar to Ekholm.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Here’s the Petry card with 2022-23 data, if you were wondering why he was so reluctant to post it. Pretty plainly shows a defenceman in decline, definitely not one that’s similar to Ekholm.
View attachment 715929

No, I didn't post it because I don't pay to subscribe to JFresh. That's why all of the links I posted were from JFresh tweeting them out himself, it's what you can find by looking up "XXXXX JFreshhockey" on google.

I am surprised that it is showing Petry to be more middle of the pack, but that aligns with the "jack of all trades" type of D he was last year.

 

[Steve Shutt]

Loved Petry during his time with Montreal. Would welcome him back but he doesn't fit our rebuild plan moving forward plus his wife wanted out of Canada.

Are the Penguins not committed to competing with Dubas? I'm sure it would be pretty easy to flip Petry at the deadline for a nice haul but thinking Pittsburgh is trying to get back into the playoffs.

 

[molon labe]

I get that fans might want the Pens to get younger, but if the idea is to stay competitive while Malkin, Crosby and Letang are still around, Petry's a good one to keep as well. Then in 2-3 years, you start from scratch. A rebuild on a team with no more bad contracts could go pretty quickly.

Loved Petry during his time with Montreal. Would welcome him back but he doesn't fit our rebuild plan moving forward plus his wife wanted out of Canada.

Are the Penguins not committed to competing with Dubas? I'm sure it would be pretty easy to flip Petry at the deadline for a nice haul but thinking Pittsburgh is trying to get back into the playoffs.

He's replaceable at 2RD in this system for cheaper. Doesn't particularly fit the mold, costs a lot, and yeah - he's old and doesn't produce like our other 3 older stars. I'd like to see something in the ballpark of 4M spent in that position with a player in their 20s. Or - a major point producer (Karlsson...unlikely) who hits the cap hard but brings something to the table.

Petry is just...middle of the pack. It's no like he's grossly overpaid for it but he basically brings nothing special to this club WHILE eating substantial cap. There's not a particular defeseman on the team that he's mentoring or bringing their performance up in some noticeable way....He's the perfect example of a guy you could move on from.

So yeah - having Petry on this roster is irrelevant to us competing.

 

[pth2]

He's replaceable at 2RD in this system for cheaper. Doesn't particularly fit the mold, costs a lot, and yeah - he's old and doesn't produce like our other 3 older stars. I'd like to see something in the ballpark of 4M spent in that position with a player in their 20s. Or - a major point producer (Karlsson...unlikely) who hits the cap hard but brings something to the table.

Petry is just...middle of the pack. It's no like he's grossly overpaid for it but he basically brings nothing special to this club WHILE eating substantial cap. There's not a particular defeseman on the team that he's mentoring or bringing their performance up in some noticeable way....He's the perfect example of a guy you could move on from.

So yeah - having Petry on this roster is irrelevant to us competing.

Well, in terms of competing right now, moving from Petry to an equivalent, but younger, cheaper player just means you'll expend assets to get that player, without improving the team for the current window.

 

[molon labe]

Well, in terms of competing right now, moving from Petry to an equivalent, but younger, cheaper player just means you'll expend assets to get that player, without improving the team for the current window.

Giving yourself an additional 2M (+?) in cap space IS an asset.

Replacement-level cost should always be looked at.

Pittsburgh doesn't need any intangibles he may bring - whereas a young team might actually covet that. We've got enough vets in the room.

 

[pth2]

Giving yourself an additional 2M (+?) in cap space IS an asset.

Replacement-level cost should always be looked at.

Pittsburgh doesn't need any intangibles he may bring - whereas a young team might actually covet that. We've got enough vets in the room.

These days cap space is an asset, moving Petry for someone cheaper will cost you, without actually improving the on-ice product.

 

[molon labe]

These days cap space is an asset, moving Petry for someone cheaper will cost you, without actually improving the on-ice product.

Right, so the thinking of moving him in A) a goalie trade acquisition or B) with a meddling pick that means nothing to the organization right now for a younger defenseman or in plans of signing one gives you two birds with one stone. Replacement cost benefit and/or a different need (goaltending).

We can afford to pay to move him if that's how it's looked like. OR take nothing for him and sign someone else. He's got some fat we could trim. Certainly not priority 1 but should be on the table this Summer.

Roster needs an overhaul without a doubt. He's in my top 5 of players to be moved and it's not because I think he sucks - it's because I think we can get younger and have the same performance in his slot on this roster for cheaper.

 

[Crazy8oooo]

Ekholm’s better and younger so worth more than Petry. Petry is also clearly declining.

Wouldn’t want the Ducks offering anything for Petry. To another team, might be worth a 2nd or 3rd.