Jason Botterill Discussion 3

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Buffaloed

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Jim Rutherford must have known Botts is a moron. So he over-hyped him to a rival knowing full well he would set that franchise back several years. Offloading 10 mil in dead cap weight to his fake protege was simply gravy.
I always thought of Rutherford as a Mr Magoo bumbling idiot who stumbled into success through sheer longevity. Every other year in Carolina he changed philosophy from "we're going for it" to "we're building through the draft". I guess a lot of had to do with how much money Karmanos had to spend.
 
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slip

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I always thought of Rutherford as a Mr Magoo bumbling idiot who stumbled into success through sheer longevity. Every other year in Carolina he changed philosophy from "we're going for it" to "we're building through the draft". I guess a lot of had to do with how much money Karmanos had to spend.
Exactly. Botts is a dumber, more bungling version of Mr. Magoo.

And when he moves Reinhart for crap futures, he'll be able to exclaim "Oh you dumber version of Mr. Magoo, you've done it again."
 

FloridaSabresFan

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Jim Rutherford must have known Botts is a moron. So he over-hyped him to a rival knowing full well he would set that franchise back several years. Offloading 10 mil in dead cap weight to his fake protege was simply gravy.
I thought the NHL recommended Botts? When I heard that I thought it was strange.
 
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Moskau

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Turning Sam Reinhart into two 25 point wingers and passing it off as depth really is going to be this morons next Summer move isn't it? Then the same characters will pass it off as a win because "look at the depth and cap flexibility we acquired!".
 

jc17

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Botts sucks but I also have less than zero faith that the pegulas will make a good hire whenever they fire him
Some fans are going to literally celebrate if/when Botterill is fired.

And for these people, the time between firing JB and hiring the next GM will be euphoric, filled with hopefulness of a new GM coming in and just nailing every move. Then, we'll hire a new guy who's like 95% of other NHL GMs, he'll likely make some bad moves, rinse, repeat.

Too many people think Botterill gone=good GM, and its just not the case.
 
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Jim Bob

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Some fans are going to literally celebrate if/when Botterill is fired.

And for these people, the time between firing JB and hiring the next GM will be euphoric, filled with hopefulness of a new GM coming in and just nailing every move. Then, we'll hire a new guy who's like 95% of other NHL GMs, he'll likely make some bad moves, rinse, repeat.

Too many people think Botterill gone=good GM, and its just not the case.

No, we just know that Botterill here does not equal a good GM.
 

stealth1

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What did you guys expect him to do? He fixed up the defense with adding Montour and Miller. The offense will take time and if you were expecting him to make Sobotka or Okposo disappear without giving up picks or taking an equal salary back is not happening.
 
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Buffalo Norsemen

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Botts sucks but I also have less than zero faith that the pegulas will make a good hire whenever they fire him

Your future head of hockey operations is already here, and currently the head coach. That's not withstanding the fact that he might just say get me the hell out of here and go back to Europe where he seems to be very well respected and can carve out a another niche for himself
 

BuzzKillington90

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What did you guys expect him to do? He fixed up the defense with adding Montour and Miller. The offense will take time and if you were expecting him to make Sobotka or Okposo disappear without giving up picks or taking an equal salary back is not happening.

I dunno about fixed, but he shored up the defense certainly. The general problem most people have with Botterill is that he seemed to have assumed that a new Coach will somehow correct the inadequacies of 40% of the roster being AHL or worse players. Even understanding that he was strapped with a few bad contracts that he could not get rid of; the lack of roster overhaul on the front-side of things was beyond an optimists reasoning.

He added Vesey, Johansson to the forward group. Thats it. Vesey is at best a 13 energy forward (ironic with his number) While Johansson seems to be a positive addition.

To assume that Sobotka, Sheary, Girgensons, Okposo, Mittlestadt (too early and definitely not ready,) and to a lesser point Larsson, would magically evolve into middle 6 forwards, or even bottom 6 forwards, is lunacy.

The season started great, but it appears that the players have reduced themselves to muscle memory of 2 years in a system... The coach's are very clearly stating what they want to occur. It doesn't happen. Case in point; shots on the powerplay/5x5...every intermission interview has any of the Assistant Coaches saying we need to shoot more....what happens? They pass around the zone until inevitably they lose possession or it gets blocked. Its pretty clear at this point that the Coach isn't the problem. (Don't get me wrong, Housley had to go based on the endless bad decisions,) so the roster needs to be adjusted.

I defended Botterill (I still hate the "big head" infancy that people spout off, it's just childish,) but at this point he's completely to blame for our current state.
 
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Royisgone

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Botts sucks but I also have less than zero faith that the pegulas will make a good hire whenever they fire him

Serious question for everyone here:

What is the likely end game for Botterill as GM? Let's assume we have another bad year where back-t0-back wins are hard to come by and miss the playoffs.

Does Botterill get fired before the season end? At season's end? Does he survive that?

How do we get rid of this guy?!
 

Royisgone

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Turning Sam Reinhart into two 25 point wingers and passing it off as depth really is going to be this morons next Summer move isn't it? Then the same characters will pass it off as a win because "look at the depth and cap flexibility we acquired!".

I'm not a fan of liquidating Reinhart for nothing as he did with ROR, but Reinhart is not going to be worth the $ and term he is going to get on his next K. Not close.

Don't you agree?

I would trade him, but assuming you can get value for him.
 

BuzzKillington90

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Serious question for everyone here:

What is the likely end game for Botterill as GM? Let's assume we have another bad year where back-t0-back wins are hard to come by and miss the playoffs.

Does Botterill get fired before the season end? At season's end? Does he survive that?

How do we get rid of this guy?!

In all likelihood we won't get rid of Botterill. I actually can already see the spin-job: First year was roster evaluation, 2nd year was Housley, 3rd year will be roster overhaul now that several bad contracts are off of the books. The Pegulas have a stigmata about firing front-office reps, and with the NHL stepping in, or at least nudging them, in Botterills direction they may have issue with firing after a 2nd full season.

Honestly I'd be prepared for year 3 of Botterill. I think the biggest problem most of us, at least me, have; is the conservative nature of this Front Office. If they would show at least some inkling of recognition that help is needed, less people would complain. Don't get me wrong, people will have issues no matter what: Paid too much, acquired wrong player, traded away wrong player.... but it's the inaction that is driving me nuts.
 

SnuggaRUDE

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I'm not a fan of liquidating Reinhart for nothing as he did with ROR, but Reinhart is not going to be worth the $ and term he is going to get on his next K. Not close.

Don't you agree?

I would trade him, but assuming you can get value for him.

If Okposo is on career ending IR it might free up some of the pressure on Reinhart's slot to be super salary efficient.
 

valet

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In all likelihood we won't get rid of Botterill. I actually can already see the spin-job: First year was roster evaluation, 2nd year was Housley, 3rd year will be roster overhaul now that several bad contracts are off of the books. The Pegulas have a stigmata about firing front-office reps, and with the NHL stepping in, or at least nudging them, in Botterills direction they may have issue with firing after a 2nd full season.

Honestly I'd be prepared for year 3 of Botterill. I think the biggest problem most of us, at least me, have; is the conservative nature of this Front Office. If they would show at least some inkling of recognition that help is needed, less people would complain. Don't get me wrong, people will have issues no matter what: Paid too much, acquired wrong player, traded away wrong player.... but it's the inaction that is driving me nuts.
you make several good points. people are impatient. we've been losing forever and having to wait another 2+ years to even be sniffing at playoffs is just... hard to stomach. my inclination is that bott's plan has been to totally restructure the org, starting in the minors while waiting for all the horrendous contracts/bad draft picks to work their way out of the system. now, obviously, with such a long timeline, he can't exactly hold a press conference when hired and say 'hey, it's gonna be 5 years before we're any good at all', but i wish he could do a secret press conference for fans really interested in what his plan is moving forward. the blind faith perspective is a tad bit untenable

so i still say we're not really gonna see what he's made of until he can actually get a roster of mostly his own picks up on the big club, unfortunately. and i'm going to make a bold proclamation that he lasts at least 5 years as GM, whether people hate him right now or otherwise
 
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SnuggaRUDE

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you make several good points. people are impatient. we've been losing forever and having to wait another 2+ years to even be sniffing at playoffs is just... hard to stomach. my inclination is that bott's plan has been to totally restructure the org, starting in the minors while waiting for all the horrendous contracts/bad draft picks work their way out of the system. now, obviously, with such a long timeline, he can't exactly hold a press conference when hired and say 'hey, it's gonna be 5 year before we're any good at all', but i wish he could do a secret press conference for fans really interested in what his plan is moving forward. the blind faith perspective is a tad bit untenable

so i still say we're not really gonna see what he's made of until he can actually get a roster of mostly his own picks up on the big club, unfortunately

I think that's too long a time frame, I want to be able to evaluate him based on the value amassed within the organization. Strategically Buffalo was, and still is, too thin to be making multiple asset trades. Going back to the 2000s they've been under-capitalized as a team.

There's only one thing that can hide a team flaw like that: Goaltending.
 
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valet

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I think that's too long a time frame, I want to be able to evaluate him based on the value amassed within the organization. Strategically Buffalo was, and still is, too thin to be making multiple asset trades. Going back to the 2000s they've been under-capitalized as a team.

There's only one thing that can hide a team flaw like that: Goaltending.
i'm not saying we can't evaluate him now based on what he's done so far, but rather that doing so would be an inaccurate representation of his performance as an executive if he's truly taking taking a 'build through the draft' approach.

and i agree, a real goalie would make us considerably better. we haven't had consistent play at that position since miller was traded some 10 odd years ago
 

EichHart

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Does an NHL GM have the easiest job of all time? Like what does he even do all season? Watch the games from the press box? What's this guys salary?
 

mechaworm

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I don't have a sense that Botts has a plan in the way that a lot of people here are hoping for -- like targeting a specific sequence of roster/pipeline moves over a period of years, coupled with targeted finishes in the standings, which eventually leads up to a balanced roster/payroll structure that sustains a five year period of contention.

I just get the sense that he's nibbling at whatever seems doable day to day and hoping it adds up. Whether it's bridging Reinhart last year, or acquiring a logjam on D this year, or giving away picks for roster filler both years, or signing Jack and Jeff to really high numbers just before the cap flatlines, or pushing kids like Mittelstadt/Thompson onto the roster before they're ready, I've often got the feeling that he's working on a news cycle to news cycle kind of plan.

In a sense, though, I can't blame him. The roster is confounding. There's a lot of nominal core pieces that don't show up too often, and I'm flummoxed thinking about what types of supporting moves they need to thrive.
 

Doug Prishpreed

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I defend Botterill, this mess isn't his fault. After all, people are still paying for games, which is the main metric for a business. I blame the fans for the mixed messaging they're sending the GM.

Every time I drop $100 to see a game, the damn thing is over before it starts...I couldn't imagine ever doing that again after last season...I don't know what these fans are thinking. It feels like spending money on a roulette wheel in vegas -- gone before you can even enjoy yourself under the delusion that you might have a chance to actually win.
 

valet

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I defend Botterill, this mess isn't his fault. After all, people are still paying for games, which is the main metric for a business. I blame the fans for the mixed messaging they're sending the GM.

Every time I drop $100 to see a game, the damn thing is over before it starts...I couldn't imagine ever doing that again after last season...I don't know what these fans are thinking. It feels like spending money on a roulette wheel in vegas -- gone before you can even enjoy yourself under the delusion that you might have a chance to actually win.
i'm not going to lie, i went to the canes game mainly to see the canes play... because i figured we'd lose like 5-1. without that lazar goal it probably would have ended up that way, but alas, the team decided to come to life
 
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