Jason Botterill Discussion 2

[Aladyyn]

Sobotka won’t be on the team next year. Put away your bias. Like others have said Botterill is taking the long term approach because of the mess he inherited from Murray who pissed away so many assets on failed acquisitions. It takes 3-5 years to build, he hasn’t even finished year 2. He’s not going to accelerate the rebuild with the risk of compromising the long term picture of being a sustainable contender. Patience. I am curious to see how Botterill handles the Housley situation.

In 10 years you people will still blame Tim Murray for everything. Just accept that Botterill is a worse GM.

 

[OkimLom]

Sobotka won’t be on the team next year. Put away your bias. Like others have said Botterill is taking the long term approach because of the mess he inherited from Murray who pissed away so many assets on failed acquisitions. It takes 3-5 years to build, he hasn’t even finished year 2. He’s not going to accelerate the rebuild with the risk of compromising the long term picture of being a sustainable contender. Patience. I am curious to see how Botterill handles the Housley situation.

Still not understanding what Murray attempted to do? Awesome

 

[SabresFan26]

In 10 years you people will still blame Tim Murray for everything. Just accept that Botterill is a worse GM.

No we will call a spade a spade. Botterill hasn’t even been employed for two years yet, almost half of Murray’s time. Let’s see where the teams is at when Botterill is at the same time as his predecessor. It’s comparing apples and oranges at this point. Murray still isn’t even employed years later. If he was so good wouldn’t he be employed in some capacity?

 

[Aladyyn]

No we will call a spade a spade. Botterill hasn’t even been employed for two years yet, almost half of Murray’s time. Let’s see where the teams is at when Botterill is at the same time as his predecessor. It’s comparing apples and oranges at this point. Murray still isn’t even employed years later. If he was so good wouldn’t he be employed in some capacity?

Maybe in 2 more years Botterill will finally achieve 80 points in the standings.

When Murray came here he had no Eichel, no O'Reilly, no Reinhart. Botterill did. And he got the same results.

 

[Baccus]

No we will call a spade a spade. Botterill hasn’t even been employed for two years yet, almost half of Murray’s time. Let’s see where the teams is at when Botterill is at the same time as his predecessor. It’s comparing apples and oranges at this point. Murray still isn’t even employed years later. If he was so good wouldn’t he be employed in some capacity?

If you're going to "call a spade a spade", ignoring the two years Murray spent ripping the team down to finish last, even if you vehemently disagree with his attempted 'accelerated rebuild' is very disingenuous.

Especially considering Botterill's teams are going to be worse than the last two years of Murray. They can both be bad unfortunately.

 

[flashsabre]

Why do people argue if Murray or Botts is/was a better GM? What are you hoping to gain from it? This team has been awful for 8 years, there have been terrible decisions made by all involved. If you think either one of them has done a good job then you just expose yourself as not having a basic grasp of hockey. The Pegulas have put these people in place and it hs not worked out at all.

 

[debaser66]

When is Botterill's Canada GM gig start ? Very strange of hIm to take that with so much work here.

His work starts after the trade freeze until then like most hybernating creatures he remains in his regular season sleep.

 

[debaser66]

Botts is their guy, they’ll support him. I believe they earlier in the year.

"Pro botts, pro RoR trade, anti Reinhart" most have this 3 traits..

 

[debaser66]

Botterill is a great GM. He’s highly respected around the league. Our cap situation has a bright future, unlike before. Our prospect system is filled up again, instead of completely barren and reliant on players who aren’t even playing pro hockey anymore. The pro team has dealt with fillers last season who didn’t hurt the team’s cap situation. This year half the team is rookies who didn’t sink, and their futures are only looking brighter.

I can quote the twelve of you above, but all this Botterill hate and no better alternatives is just empty air. ‘He didn’t do enough to help the flailing team!’ Lol, name one realistic trade that would’ve done something.

And Botterill has made it clear that all roster decisions this year were Housley’s final call. That’s a clear message to other coaches around the league that their GM isn’t going to micro manage them. That is a HUGE selling point. Would you rather be in Toronto’s bickering situation today with Babcock? lol. The failures this year are on Housley, after he was given a fair pass on his first season. If you can’t see past this and want the cheap blame the owner/GM tagline, then brand yourself as that simple thinker. There’s plenty of details here in the trees, even if all you want to see is the forest.

I am a simple thinker

 

[GellMann]

I have nothing valuable to add to a Murray v Botts discussion.

I will say that when I take a step back, and think about the parts of this team that have me excited, or at least things that I like, I see more Murray than I expected to.

Sam, Jack, ERod's development from guy-we-were-certain-would-never-touch-the-NHL for any meaningful stretch to an actual player, Nylander-Olofsson this spring, Asplund and Smith in Roch, having actual hope that these guys, at least one of them, becomes a good bottom 6 guy. ROR was a top 2 piece in the organization for me before the trade.

On Jason's end, I like the Rochester roster moves, and supported leaving Olofsson down there until now. The Skinner trade was excellent, and Dahlin is his guy, though he gets no credit for that (Murray came into a tank and successfully completed it, even if I disagree with tanking - that's why he gets credit for Jack).Love me some Montour, as I did not like Guhle. But Tage and Casey honestly do very little for me (I know the latter is probably controversial, but drafting a Tyson Jost where Tyson Josts get drafted is meh) and every other Botterill name is pretty scary bad.

We'll see what Jason can do this summer. It is a reasonable, if not easy, task to get this roster to the level of Carolina/CBJ/MTL this season, such that we're where those teams are a year from now. And it's also a requirement.

 

[SabresFan26]

Why do people argue if Murray or Botts is/was a better GM? What are you hoping to gain from it? This team has been awful for 8 years, there have been terrible decisions made by all involved. If you think either one of them has done a good job then you just expose yourself as not having a basic grasp of hockey. The Pegulas have put these people in place and it hs not worked out at all.

I agree with most of this. Grasp of hockey is on hold for Botterill who should have this next season to really see progression. If the team is in a similar place next year, then more of the anti-Botterill will be warranted but let’s give him this offseason to really overhaul and move us forward.

 

[Aladyyn]

Why do people argue if Murray or Botts is/was a better GM? What are you hoping to gain from it? This team has been awful for 8 years, there have been terrible decisions made by all involved. If you think either one of them has done a good job then you just expose yourself as not having a basic grasp of hockey. The Pegulas have put these people in place and it hs not worked out at all.

Yeah it's not really an argument. Murray got fired after dropping 2 points in the standings. Botterill then dropped 18 in his first season and then traded his best player. And then whatever this season is.

Botterill has nothing on Murray.

 

[sabrebuild]

I agree with most of this. Grasp of hockey is on hold for Botterill who should have this next season to really see progression. If the team is in a similar place next year, then more of the anti-Botterill will be warranted but let’s give him this offseason to really overhaul and move us forward.

To some degree you sound like a guy in 1944 saying, idk, lets see how the next year plays out before we say maybe Hitler wasn't the smartest war leaderbin history.

Some people really need to have the puzzle completed before they see the picture.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Building an AHL winner is not a sign of anything but basic competence. It's not a hard formula to go out and get quality AHL vets and then sift in prospects. It's not something Buffalo has done recently but it is something other teams manage to do.

I've been around a long time and while I like the idea of AHL-to-NHL graduation, yet it's not the only way to go about doing things. Only doing that is not a plan. That's complacency.

A huge problem with the Sabres is depth throughout the lineup, the young players in Rochester should help solve that problem next season. None of them are saviors but some have already shown they can help the Sabres. Our stars are already on the roster, Botterill has to fill in around them.

Botterill needs to be more active and aggressive this offseason, I think he will. That should start at head coach.

 

[Sabre Dance]

To some degree you sound like a guy in 1944 saying, idk, lets see how the next year plays out before we say maybe Hitler wasn't the smartest war leaderbin history.

Some people really need to have the puzzle completed before they see the picture.

Right now Botterill's legacy is trading away the most consistently good player on the worst team in hockey. He chose to do a mini rebuild rather than continue to build around the previous core.

I wanted this to some extent, I just wish he waited 1 more year before trading O'Reilly to see if they could make it work with Dahlin, Mittelstadt, and a scorer added.

 

[debaser66]

We’re a team with a hard working identity crisis. There’s absolutely zero reason why guys were not shipped out for, at the most, hard working players. Guys that to their core just work their butt off. It’s not asking too much to be able to identify and acquire these hard working players. They don’t even need to be talented. There is no excuse for the lack of activity from Botts to change over the bottom 6 with these type of guys.

Talk about competition from within, let’s make it a little harder for guys in the pipeline to be able make the main roster. Stopping giving spots away. If a CJ Smith or Nylander want a spot in the team, beat out the guy that works hard every night. Raise the bar of standards that young guys have to meet.

Competition was erased when Thompson was gifted a spot for the season and Mittelstadt was kept up despite his struggles.
VO, Smith and others were all playing well..when called up Pilut and Smith were victimized to veteran entitlement after scoring their first goals after playing good games...also Thompson was kept up while being worse than Smith..
Why you mention Smith & Nylander..2 players who have been better than most guys on the roster when with the big club?
Actually all the call ups deserved a spot more than the drift wood up here.
The problem have been the vets not the compete level of the AHL call ups.

 

[debaser66]

In 10 years you people will still blame Tim Murray for everything. Just accept that Botterill is a worse GM.

It's easier to put all the blame on someone who is gone than facing the possible bleak reality that someone incompetent and clueless is the GM right now.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Competition was erased when Thompson was gifted a spot for the season and Mittelstadt was kept up despite his struggles.
VO, Smith and others were all playing well..when called up Pilut and Smith were victimized to veteran entitlement after scoring their first goals after playing good games...also Thompson was kept up while being worse than Smith..
Why you mention Smith & Nylander..2 players who have been better than most guys on the roster when with the big club?
Actually all the call ups deserved a spot more than the drift wood up here.
The problem have been the vets not the compete level of the AHL call ups.

I think the call ups were more for evaluating players rather than winning games. He's talked about being in Pittsburgh and bringing up young players to winning teams. Now he could have inserted them early in the season when they were winning but Botterill has said they weren't that good even during the streak.

Keeping Mittelstadt up, I don't know. I've said all along he shouldn't be forced into center right now. I wanted him on the wing with Reinhart at center. He still got minutes. If he were on the 4th line or watching most of the season I would complain more.

 

[MrMaster]

Competition was erased when Thompson was gifted a spot for the season and Mittelstadt was kept up despite his struggles.

Anybody saw this, and i'm still struggling to find words for it. Because, either they just didn't see what most of us saw, or there were some kind of politics involved. Both scenarios are bad in their own way, and that's not just some line combination crap, like with Babcock and his fanboy Hyman, or that kind of stuff.
I could let such things go, because every coach has flaws, and there is always something questionable, like a lineup-combination, or some player who's well in with the coach, etc
This is on another level, it's far worse.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Anybody saw this, and i'm still struggling to find words for it. Because, either they just didn't see what most of us saw, or there were some kind of politics involved. Both scenarios are bad in their own way, and that's not just some line combination crap, like with Babcock and his fanboy Hyman, or that kind of stuff.
I could let such things go, because every coach has flaws, and there is always something questionable, like a lineup-combination, or some player who's well in with the coach, etc
This is on another level, it's far worse.

I mean it obviously didn't hurt Tage, 4 points in 2 games since being sent down. We're looking at this from a perspective of what's best for the Sabres now, Botterill is looking at it saying what's best for the Sabres future.

 

[debaser66]

Anybody saw this, and i'm still struggling to find words for it. Because, either they just didn't see what most of us saw, or there were some kind of politics involved. Both scenarios are bad in their own way, and that's not just some line combination crap, like with Babcock and his fanboy Hyman, or that kind of stuff.
I could let such things go, because every coach has flaws, and there is always something questionable, like a lineup-combination, or some player who's well in with the coach, etc
This is on another level, it's far worse.

I would say game line up is High school Phils descicion
And sending players down is JB's
So this is on the GM..
Why he thought so nobody knows.
It didn't help the Sabres or Thompson that makes it a bit buffling.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I won't be upset if Botts is fired (not even close lol). But, there is a difference between him and housely. Botts has made some mistakes, has made some positive changes, and hasn't shown that he is incompetent at his job. I am willing to grow with a young GM, and look past his mistakes. Housley, on the other hand, hasn't been making mistakes: he is patently incompetent and nothing hints at him gaining anything resembling skills at his job.

 

[OkimLom]

Competition was erased when Thompson was gifted a spot for the season and Mittelstadt was kept up despite his struggles.
VO, Smith and others were all playing well..when called up Pilut and Smith were victimized to veteran entitlement after scoring their first goals after playing good games...also Thompson was kept up while being worse than Smith..
Why you mention Smith & Nylander..2 players who have been better than most guys on the roster when with the big club?
Actually all the call ups deserved a spot more than the drift wood up here.
The problem have been the vets not the compete level of the AHL call ups.

The post had nothing to do with quality of the AHL players. It’s about the lack of quality competition that said AHL players would be in direct competition with on the roster. If the call ups had to work that much harder to leap the players, And stay in the lineup, it would be nothing but a positive for Buffalo in games. Players would not only have earned the spot because of a talent improvement but they earned it with their hard work.

Today, we have fans ready to gift players spots in the lineup because they are not talented than the players we already have here.

Botts doesn’t want to actively win right now. Fine. Then you need to improve the standards. Imagine if we had prospects that played with the energy, urgency, and tempo as the NYI 4th line, a line that constantly pushed our 1st line around.

These past two seasons, and what I fear, a third season, if they aren’t being used to be competitive, NEED to be used to build up other areas of the team. We are more than a coach, we are more than talent away from being playoff contenders, let alone Stanley Cup contenders. If we are playing the long term game plan, we need to invest into making long terms attitudes and cultures and standards changes. It’s not going change like a light switch.

 

[kirby11]

Yeah it's not really an argument. Murray got fired after dropping 2 points in the standings. Botterill then dropped 18 in his first season and then traded his best player. And then whatever this season is.

Botterill has nothing on Murray.

But the communication!

 

[Sabre Dance]

Yeah it's not really an argument. Murray got fired after dropping 2 points in the standings. Botterill then dropped 18 in his first season and then traded his best player. And then whatever this season is.

Botterill has nothing on Murray.

Year 4 vs year 2.