Jari Kurri or Teemu Selanne?

[MeHateHe]

Who's the best Finnish NHLer ever?

My first thought was Kurri, because I'm from Alberta so I was more or less brainwashed into thinking that everything Oiler was the epitome of greatness. He's got an edge on Selanne in terms of points per game, although playing with Gretzky will do that for you. He was also somewhat responsible defensively, even though I always thought his Selke nomination was a bit of a stretch. He's got more championships, although again, playing with Gretzky gives you a leg up.

Both players were first team all stars. Both players won goal-scoring titles.

Selanne played longer and had a better peak, despite not playing with Gretzky. It remains weird that his best season was his rookie season, and he still holds the rookie goal-scoring record. He has a higher overall point total than Kurri (again, playing without Gretzky) but he had 200 additional games to rack them up. He was not so reliable defensively, although he had a Lady Byng, and also had a Hart nomination.

What do y'all think. It's got to be Selanne, right? Better peak, longer career, did it without playing alongside the best player in the world?

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[MadLuke]

It remains weird that his best season was his rookie season

92-93 is the "best" season for a lot of people. 97, 98 or 99 are not necessarily worst season.

 

[buffalowing88]

I don't love the dip Selanne took for several years in the middle. I look at Kurri from 82-88 alone and I see a better player.

 

[MadLuke]

Selanne has the most points in Olympics history.

Has a Ducks he did well in the playoff, but it is a bit of a what if, what he would have done with a better and playoff bound type of team during his prime.

 

[Felidae]

I don't love the dip Selanne took for several years in the middle.

I don't think that can be used as an argument against Selanne in this case considering Kurri was no longer a PPG player 33 onwards and nowhere close to being one of the top point producers in the league.

Meanwhile, Selanne revitalized his career as one of the best wingers in the game in his mid 30s. He finished 13th in points twice as a 35 and 36 year old, then 10th in points as a 40 year old.

I look at Kurri from 82-88 alone and I see a better player.

That being said, im inclined to agree here. Kurri was significantly better defensively than Selanne while providing a similar (though lower) level of offense

 

[MeHateHe]

I don't love the dip Selanne took for several years in the middle. I look at Kurri from 82-88 alone and I see a better player.

I think Kurri might have been the more well-rounded player - he did play some defense. But I just can't get past thinking Selanne put up multiple 100+ point seasons with less-than-stellar teammates. Paul Kariya was a great player but could you pick Steve Rucchin out of a lineup? I think Selanne was more talented - although maybe a bit mercurial at times.

 

[Gorskyontario]

Selanne was better. Kurri was very good but his numbers were inflated by playing on a super team. Obviously he proved he could do it without Gretzky in 88-89, but no way he scored 70+ goals without him.

Kurri was better defensively though, Selanne was more physical and willing to battle.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Kurri was the boat lifted by the rising tide, Selanne was the rising tide on his team

 

[The Panther]

It's a tough one.

On Kurri's side, I think his 1982-83 through 1988-89 is pretty much unimpeachable -- consistently, every season. In fact, his entire 10 years in Edmonton is pretty amazing when you think about it. He won the Cup 5 times in 10 years (six Finals), and led the playoffs in goals four times (16 ES goals in the '85 playoffs!). He left the Oilers in 1990 as the #1 goal scorer in playoff history.

There tends to be a misunderstanding of Kurri's skill (in my impression) among those who rarely watched him. Some people think he was only a sniper. In fact, he was an exceptionally good passer and (esp. by the late-80s) a playmaker.

As to 'intangibles' and so forth, as has been noted, Kurri was very responsible defensively. Defensively, he played the center's role on the Gretzky line. Although a non-physical player in the traditional sense, he was remarkably durable and rarely missed games. He was also incredibly clutch.

When Gretzky left, Kurri remained the best right-winger in the NHL, in my opinion (they gave 1st-team All Star to Mullen that season, but it was a coin flip). By 1989-90, he was overtaken by Brett Hull, but he was still ace the first 2/3 of that season (slowed down a bit by the end in the by-now expected contract dispute with Edmonton).

Any negatives to Kurri? Well, he was kind of a no-show in the 1986 playoffs when they lost to Calgary, and he was slow starting in 1986-87 (receiving a tongue-lashing, apparently, from Sather around November/December of that season). When he came back from Italy with Los Angeles, he was seemingly soft and had lost some edge, basically sucking in 1991-92. He rebounded in incredible fashion to start 1992-93, playing as a center now (and without Gretzky). He actually was 2nd in scoring to Lemieux in the first two months of the season, but then he slowed way down the rest of the way. 1993-94 was his last productive season, but by now he was slowing. After that, he was more like a role player and checker.

On Selänne's side, I think he did much of his damage by creating a lot of that damage by himself. Like all productive players, he had help along the way, but he often led teams in scoring and/or in goals by huge margins. His 1992-93 rookie year was incredible in a lot of ways, but one is scoring 76 goals when nobody else had more than 28. He led the league in goals three times (Kurri once, though would have been twice if not for one minor injury). Selänne's 1997, 1998, and 1999 seasons are all pretty consistently great, the more so in that it's mainly (esp. latter two) the Dead Puck era. Selänne had remarkable longevity as an elite scorer -- despite some dips along the way -- famously coming back from a seeming decline just before the Lock-Out to post 40 and 48-goal seasons at ages 35 and 36, at which point Kurri was pretty much done.

Selänne's 'intangible', besides longevity, was probably his skating and speed. He could just flat-out beat people to the net with his impressive acceleration. Thus he could generate a lot of goals and chances by himself.

Any negatives to Selänne? He wasn't as consistent during his prime as Kurri, but his later-career comeback makes up for that. I don't think Selänne was ever considered a strong defensive player (his ES plus/minus results aren't very impressive, whether on a good team or not), so maybe there's that. His playoff goal scoring is just 'good' but far from great, and his point production leaves maybe a little to be desired.

Overall, it's a close call. I do think Selänne kind of did more on his own than Kurri did, but then again Kurri maybe came up bigger in big moments (in my opinion). I guess you give Selänne the edge as he had three goals-titles and one more top-10 point finish, plus that unbelievable rookie year.

 

[JackSlater]

I think Kurri would help more teams win more than Selanne would, but it depends on the situation. I like Kurri's versatility, in that he could play centre if necessary and provided elite defence while Selanne contributed generally no defence. Kurri is also proven as one of the greatest complementary players ever. Selanne is more proven as a go-to player and is a better scorer. I don't know, I guess it's close, but I'm confident that I could win with either as the best player on a team, though ideally I wouldn't want either as by far the best player on the team.

In short, I think that Kurri was better because he was much more versatile while bringing elite offence, though not as much offence as Selanne. I understand picking Selanne though.

 

[Albatros]

Kurri, could score big and provide Selke-level defense to go with it. Also otherwise more versatile. What offensive edge Selänne might have isn't enough to counter that.

 

[MadLuke]

Prime Selanne outscored 10th scorer (Joe Sakic)

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By 30%, was not that far away from Jagr, lead the league in goals, in ppg was 26% ahead of number 10 (Gretzky).

84-86 Kurri, for a comp
21 ahead of the 10th scorer (Federko), 30% in ppg ahead of 10th Savard

In term of production relative to their peers it is a bit of a wash, Kurri leading the nhl in goals outside Greztky, third in points... It depends how large of a Gretzky tax he has to pay.

89&90 without him

10th in points, 9th in ppg, he already had over 700 games and over 1,000 points career in the nhl if we include the long playoffs before that points, which leave no doubt that during his peak he could have been a mainstay in the top 10 scorer list and little doubt his peak season could have been near the top.

 

[Sentinel]

Peak & career: Selanne
Prime: Kurri

They are very close in their accomplishments but Kurri was much better defensively, so I'll go with Kurri here.