Jared Cowen

[Alf Silfversson]

How does listing three guys with a combined zero games of experience, who would be lucky to even get a cup of coffee in the NHL, prove your point?

Look at the most successful playoff teams of the past few years. I'll point out all the 'tall guys' above 6'3, and comment on their height/weight.

In the 2013 finals, there was Chara, at 6'9, 255, Adam McQuaid at a lean 6'5, 215, and Brent Seabrooke at 6'3, 220. That's it for big/tall guys on defense for either team, and McQuaid is built like Weircioch. This year alone, Ottawa has 5 guys that would qualify for this list.

In the 2012 finals, there wasn't a defenseman out there for either team bigger than Andy Greene, who is Marc Methot's size at 6'3, 230. Willie Mitchell is 6'3, 210. Mark Fayne, and Adam Larsson were the big guys for the Devils, at 6'3, 220. Lots of smaller, mobile defensemen though.

In the 2011 finals, we had Chara and McQuaid again, as well as Andrew Alberts, at 6'5 218, Edler at 6'3, 215, and Sami Salo, at 6'3, 315. So four of the five defensemen between both cup contending teams that registered above 6'3 were relatively lean; weighing below 220 lbs.

2010 had Braydon Coburn at 6'5, 220, and Chris Pronger at 6'6, 220, as well as the aforementioned Brent Seabrook at 6'3, 220. That's it for big and tall.

We aren't seeing tall, heavy set defensemen have as much success at the NHL level anymore. They can't keep up, and are initially scouted because of their size, not their ability to play hockey. It's that inability to play that weeds them out at the highest levels, and the tall defensemen that succeed in today's NHL are lean.

Jared Cowen, by all accounts, is now 6'6, 240+. He's not lean by any stretch; he's a big dude. There were plenty of successful defensemen like him prior to the 2004 lockout, but once teams realized that defensemen needed the ability to accelerate from a standstill, they got weeded out. Jared Cowen cannot accelerate. He gets caught. He has a pre-lockout body type. It almost burned us last night when Dubinsky flew by him and got a point blank chance to tie it late in the game. He's not mobile. That's why I'm afraid.

I agree that most huge defensemen now get weeded out and there are definitely less of the Chris Therien, late Derian Hatcher, Kyle McLaren type of guys in the league now.

Mobility is a must now. Big guys who can't keep up are being either weeded out or beaten. The best example is close to home. The big slow guys on the Sens D is the biggest reason for our defensive struggles. Guys like Phillips, Gryba, Cowen and Wiercioch have been exposed for their lack of footspeed and skill, particularly early in the season. Loading up on big guys who can't skate is a recipe for disaster in today's NHL

That being said Cowen has the ability to be mobile AND big. He also shows some flashes of contributing offense. Marc Methot last year was extremely valuable to the Sens because of his combination of size and speed. I have no doubt that Cowen has that kind of potential and maybe even a higher ceiling.

 

[LuckyPierre]

That being said Cowen has the ability to be mobile AND big. He also shows some flashes of contributing offense. Marc Methot last year was extremely valuable to the Sens because of his combination of size and speed. I have no doubt that Cowen has that kind of potential and maybe even a higher ceiling.

I personally don't see a situation where Jared Cowen will be able to fly like Marc Methot. He has wheels. Cowen is fast due to stride length and leg strength when he gets up to speed, but Methot has the ability to explode off the line that Cowen doesn't have.

 

[Micklebot]

How does listing three guys with a combined zero games of experience, who would be lucky to even get a cup of coffee in the NHL, prove your point?

He seems to be looking purely at young players and prospects; my guess being he see's that as an indication as to where teams are currently looking.

Look at the most successful playoff teams of the past few years. I'll point out all the 'tall guys' above 6'3, and comment on their height/weight.

In the 2013 finals, there was Chara, at 6'9, 255, Adam McQuaid at a lean 6'5, 215, and Brent Seabrooke at 6'3, 220. That's it for big/tall guys on defense for either team, and McQuaid is built like Weircioch. This year alone, Ottawa has 5 guys that would qualify for this list.

In the 2012 finals, there wasn't a defenseman out there for either team bigger than Andy Greene, who is Marc Methot's size at 6'3, 230. Willie Mitchell is 6'3, 210. Mark Fayne, and Adam Larsson were the big guys for the Devils, at 6'3, 220. Lots of smaller, mobile defensemen though.

In the 2011 finals, we had Chara and McQuaid again, as well as Andrew Alberts, at 6'5 218, Edler at 6'3, 215, and Sami Salo, at 6'3, 315. So four of the five defensemen between both cup contending teams that registered above 6'3 were relatively lean; weighing below 220 lbs.

2010 had Braydon Coburn at 6'5, 220, and Chris Pronger at 6'6, 220, as well as the aforementioned Brent Seabrook at 6'3, 220. That's it for big and tall.

Looking at just the last 3 playoff finalists is a pretty simplistic way of looking at it. For one, you're reducing your sample from 300 NHL defencemen to 36 starting defenseman. Among that group, you've listed about 10 guys who fit the bill, which is a fairly significant portion when you consider that generally speaking being 6'3+ is relatively rare, particularly if you're combining it with being 220+.

We aren't seeing tall, heavy set defensemen have as much success at the NHL level anymore. They can't keep up, and are initially scouted because of their size, not their ability to play hockey. It's that inability to play that weeds them out at the highest levels, and the tall defensemen that succeed in today's NHL are lean.

Big players who don't have ability to play hockey get ignored by scouts just the same as little players who can't play. Cowen was scouted heavily because he was a top player in his league, not just because he was big.

Jared Cowen, by all accounts, is now 6'6, 240+. He's not lean by any stretch; he's a big dude. There were plenty of successful defensemen like him prior to the 2004 lockout, but once teams realized that defensemen needed the ability to accelerate from a standstill, they got weeded out. Jared Cowen cannot accelerate. He gets caught. He has a pre-lockout body type. It almost burned us last night when Dubinsky flew by him and got a point blank chance to tie it late in the game. He's not mobile. That's why I'm afraid.

Can you link any accounts saying he's 6'6, 240+, because I've haven't seen any. I understand that a lot of info out there is out of date, so NHL.com or eliteprospects won't have current figures, but I think it's safe to say 'all accounts' don't agree with your assertion.

As for Cowen's mobility, it's certainly something he has to continue working on, but given his recent injuries, specifically the hip last year, I think it's understandable that his development in that regard was a bit stunted. imo, there has been a noticeable difference just between the start of this year and now, but he does need to continue to improve in that regard to reach his potential.

 

[LuckyPierre]

Looking at just the last 3 playoff finalists is a pretty simplistic way of looking at it. For one, you're reducing your sample from 300 NHL defencemen to 36 starting defenseman. Among that group, you've listed about 10 guys who fit the bill, which is a fairly significant portion when you consider that generally speaking being 6'3+ is relatively rare, particularly if you're combining it with being 220+.

The average NHLer is between 6'1 and 6'2. Not sure what the average defensemen is, but given that the biggest guys in the league are almost exclusively defensemen (Chara, Myers, Sustr, etc) and the smallest guys in the league are almost exclusively forwards (Gerbe, Byron, Desharnais, both Giontas, Zuccarello, etc), I would surmise that it's up around 6'2 for defensemen. 6'3 wouldn't be all that rare then, would it?

Additionally, why not look at the 8 most successful rosters of the past 4 years? The NHL is notoriously a copycat league, in that GM's look to emulate winning rosters. Extrapolating successful roster decisions based on the makeup of finalists isn't a stretch, in my opinion.

Big players who don't have ability to play hockey get ignored by scouts just the same as little players who can't play. Cowen was scouted heavily because he was a top player in his league, not just because he was big.

Cowen had skill as an amateur, sure. But not as much as we're led to believe. He didn't reach the magical 0.5 ppg threshold in his time with Spokane that is often cited as a litmus test for so-called 'two-way' defensemen, nor did he put up any ppg seasons in the later stages of his junior career. He also didn't prove anything at the World Jr's over two tournaments, putting in a measly goal and assist over 13 games against his contemporaries.

So to argue your point, I think he was a top player in his league primarily because he was big as a youngster. He was the Chara of that league size wise versus teens. He wasn't a top player because of offensive instincts; his offense as a whole was sub-par for a top ranked defensive prospect.

Can you link any accounts saying he's 6'6, 240+, because I've haven't seen any. I understand that a lot of info out there is out of date, so NHL.com or eliteprospects won't have current figures, but I think it's safe to say 'all accounts' don't agree with your assertion.

As for Cowen's mobility, it's certainly something he has to continue working on, but given his recent injuries, specifically the hip last year, I think it's understandable that his development in that regard was a bit stunted. imo, there has been a noticeable difference just between the start of this year and now, but he does need to continue to improve in that regard to reach his potential.

"All accounts" was the wrong way to put it, but Dean and Goodie habitually mention how he's outgrown his height and weight listing on his official bio page, and have thrown out those numbers.

 

[Micklebot]

The average NHLer is between 6'1 and 6'2. Not sure what the average defensemen is, but given that the biggest guys in the league are almost exclusively defensemen (Chara, Myers, Sustr, etc) and the smallest guys in the league are almost exclusively forwards (Gerbe, Byron, Desharnais, both Giontas, Zuccarello, etc), I would surmise that it's up around 6'2 for defensemen. 6'3 wouldn't be all that rare then, would it?

Rare is probable a stretch, but 104 defencemen are listed as 6'3 or taller, about 1/3 of the leagues dmen. That number drops to 60 if you look at 6'4 only (about 20%).

Additionally, why not look at the 8 most successful rosters of the past 4 years? The NHL is notoriously a copycat league, in that GM's look to emulate winning rosters. Extrapolating successful roster decisions based on the makeup of finalists isn't a stretch, in my opinion.

If that were the case, every team would look the same, no?

Cowen had skill as an amateur, sure. But not as much as we're led to believe. He didn't reach the magical 0.5 ppg threshold in his time with Spokane that is often cited as a litmus test for so-called 'two-way' defensemen, nor did he put up any ppg seasons in the later stages of his junior career. He also didn't prove anything at the World Jr's over two tournaments, putting in a measly goal and assist over 13 games against his contemporaries.

So to argue your point, I think he was a top player in his league primarily because he was big as a youngster. He was the Chara of that league size wise versus teens. He wasn't a top player because of offensive instincts; his offense as a whole was sub-par for a top ranked defensive prospect.

There are plenty of big defencemen that don't rank as high as he did, clearly the scouts saw more than just size.

"All accounts" was the wrong way to put it, but Dean and Goodie habitually mention how he's outgrown his height and weight listing on his official bio page, and have thrown out those numbers.

fair enough; not sure I'd take them at their word on that one, Denis Potvin recently said Karlsson can broad jump 13 feet on one foot, but I'll beleive that when I see it.

 

[Cat Dad Sixty Nine]

Its pretty obvious when comparing Cowen to other players that he's 6'6.

 

[LuckyPierre]

fair enough; not sure I'd take them at their word on that one, Denis Potvin recently said Karlsson can broad jump 13 feet on one foot, but I'll beleive that when I see it.

I think he meant to say he jumps from one broad to the next better than any athlete he's seen

 

[StefanW]

Its pretty obvious when comparing Cowen to other players that he's 6'6.

OMG we agree on something!

 

[coladin]

9 hits, physical presence and some real nice clears showing some hands, keep it up!

 

[HavlatMach9]

it's scary that he may be worth his contract right now, nvm the next 3 years.

 

[LuckyPierre]

Sigh. Last night, Cowen was blown past on numerous occasions, and would ice it or turn it over trying to be a one man breakout as opposed to pass it to his partner. He was bad to the point where Jason York was quite critical of his game today on the radio, saying that he has the easiest job out there (be big, and pass to Karlsson) and that he's failing in that respect by trying to play outside of his game.

Fast forward to tonight, where he's out at centre ice trying to lead a rush when the puck goes the other way, and a back door goal is scored with Cowen way, way out of position.

This is getting out of hand.

 

[alfierulestheworld]

Sigh. Last night, Cowen was blown past on numerous occasions, and would ice it or turn it over trying to be a one man breakout as opposed to pass it to his partner. He was bad to the point where Jason York was quite critical of his game today on the radio, saying that he has the easiest job out there (be big, and pass to Karlsson) and that he's failing in that respect by trying to play outside of his game.

Fast forward to tonight, where he's out at centre ice trying to lead a rush when the puck goes the other way, and a back door goal is scored with Cowen way, way out of position.

This is getting out of hand.

Love how Cowen is the whipping boy for everyone. He's young and he will learn. Cant any "fans" on this site look to the future and potential instead of critizing every mistake. Trading him now at his age would be a terrible mistake. Don't forget, playoff hockey will suit his game when things really matter. Ill take the 6'6 245lb defenseman against the bruins in the playoffs, thanks.

 

[alfierulestheworld]

Sigh. Last night, Cowen was blown past on numerous occasions, and would ice it or turn it over trying to be a one man breakout as opposed to pass it to his partner. He was bad to the point where Jason York was quite critical of his game today on the radio, saying that he has the easiest job out there (be big, and pass to Karlsson) and that he's failing in that respect by trying to play outside of his game.

Fast forward to tonight, where he's out at centre ice trying to lead a rush when the puck goes the other way, and a back door goal is scored with Cowen way, way out of position.
This is getting out of hand.

No one minds when its EK, but its the end of the world when its cowen.

 

[supsens]

Love how Cowen is the whipping boy for everyone. He's young and he will learn. Cant any "fans" on this site look to the future and potential instead of critizing every mistake. Trading him now at his age would be a terrible mistake. Don't forget, playoff hockey will suit his game when things really matter. Ill take the 6'6 245lb defenseman against the bruins in the playoffs, thanks.

Cowen isn't even a fully filled out man yet, in 2 years he is going to be stronger and faster, the guy is going to be a beast, who cares if he is never going to be a superstar, he is still going to be one hell of a good number 4 worst case, never mind it's only his second year and he is doing a great job

 

[DrEasy]

He's been playing like Phillips lately, in both good and bad ways. Takes the body well, but doesn't handle the puck well.

 

[LuckyPierre]

No one minds when its EK, but its the end of the world when its cowen.

Idiotic comment. Cowen scores at a snails pace relative to games played (never mind minutes), especially compared to the rest of the Ottawa defense corps. See NHL.com if you don't believe me. Last time I checked, he scores fewer points per game than anyone not named Borowiecki.

His defense partner is the scoring champion of defensemen.

Cowen should virtually never be attempting to engineer the breakout, let alone lead the rush in anticipation of a lead pass. That is not his assignment, it's his partners. When that kind of pinch leads directly to a goal against, I feel compelled to point it out.

They aren't equals.

 

[Xspyrit]

it's scary that he may be worth his contract right now, nvm the next 3 years.

Personally, I think he's easily worth the 1.5 he's making this year. I wouldn't be surprised if this deal ends up as another steal for the Sens

Love how Cowen is the whipping boy for everyone. He's young and he will learn. Cant any "fans" on this site look to the future and potential instead of critizing every mistake. Trading him now at his age would be a terrible mistake. Don't forget, playoff hockey will suit his game when things really matter. Ill take the 6'6 245lb defenseman against the bruins in the playoffs, thanks.

Arguing with them is worth very few minutes of your time. I have finally stopped doing that and gosh that time saving is delicious, like the tears of those "fans" and their scapegoating needs as well.

I'm trying to log everytime on this site listening to the song "let it be". lol

No one minds when its EK, but its the end of the world when its cowen.

EK game is pretty that's why most casual fans see it like that. End of the day, a lot more scoring chances and goals are caused by EK's **** ups. But don't talk about it, it's taboo here.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Cowen seems to be getting a lot better at reading the shots on net (or being at the right place) to corral the rebounds and getting the puck out of danger. Seems to be doing it with enough consistency that it almost looks like the goalies are redirecting the puck to him on purpose so Cowen can chip the puck out of the zone.

 

[The Fuhr*]

Cowen makes 1.5 cash this season... You'd have a hard time selling me that he is not worth the money this season.

1.5 14/15
2.7 15/16
3.7 16/17
4.5 17/18

As he develops his pay goes up... He's easily worth the money this season

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Idiotic comment. Cowen scores at a snails pace relative to games played (never mind minutes), especially compared to the rest of the Ottawa defense corps. See NHL.com if you don't believe me. Last time I checked, he scores fewer points per game than anyone not named Borowiecki.

His defense partner is the scoring champion of defensemen.

Cowen should virtually never be attempting to engineer the breakout, let alone lead the rush in anticipation of a lead pass. That is not his assignment, it's his partners. When that kind of pinch leads directly to a goal against, I feel compelled to point it out.

They aren't equals.

What nerves. He should be traded for even daring to execute a breakout. What is he thinking.

 

[LuckyPierre]

Take note of where Cowen gets caught at 0:40. Also, note where the goal was scored; back door where the defenseman should be.

His 17 point pace while playing alongside Erik Karlsson (and his 76 point pace) does not scream 'two-way' defenseman to me. He needs to lock down his own end before thinking of doings things like jumping into the rush and trying to be the first man up carrying the puck into a neutral zone trap.

 

[The Fuhr*]

Since Cowen suspension
23GP 0G 6Pts 75Hits
Averaging 22 minutes a game

Over 82GP that's 21A 275Hits

Makes 1.5 this season...

 

[TeamGrit]

I'm not too worried about him, he's young and he will get better. At times when he's looked bad this season, he's just trying to do too much. He will mature and i think he will be fine.

 

[SlapJack]

Idiotic comment. Cowen scores at a snails pace relative to games played (never mind minutes), especially compared to the rest of the Ottawa defense corps. See NHL.com if you don't believe me. Last time I checked, he scores fewer points per game than anyone not named Borowiecki.

That's your opinion, might be a few thinking the same your way.

Cowen should virtually never be attempting to engineer the breakout, let alone lead the rush in anticipation of a lead pass. That is not his assignment, it's his partners. When that kind of pinch leads directly to a goal against, I feel compelled to point it out.

Seems like this is all you're capable of and sound like the Karlsson haters from other teams who constantly highlight the miscues in an attempt to prove that he's actually terrible. If the Ottawa Senators organization wanted Jared Cowen to sit back and defer to Karlsson at all times, he'd be stapled to the bench after trying to break out on his own. But that's not what they want, they want him to develop as a player because that's what you do to succeed.

I would rather lose a game now and have a stronger team in the future than be mediocre forever.

 

[Micklebot]

Take note of where Cowen gets caught at 0:40. Also, note where the goal was scored; back door where the defenseman should be.

His 17 point pace while playing alongside Erik Karlsson (and his 76 point pace) does not scream 'two-way' defenseman to me. He needs to lock down his own end before thinking of doings things like jumping into the rush and trying to be the first man up carrying the puck into a neutral zone trap.

To be fair, he's third on the team among Dmen in ES production and only gets 9 sec a game of PP time. On a per game basis, his ES production is quite similar to Wiercioch's and Ceci's. I'm quite sure if we moved him into Phillips spot on the PP (1:46/game) he could get of a few big clappers at the net and put up a few pts off the rebounds if nothing else.

He'll likely never be a 40pts dman, but I can see him puting up high 20s, or low to mid 30's if given some PP time.