avsfan09
Registered User
Staying even keeled is a real important trait. People act like it's a bad thing but it's exactly what a young team needs
Jared Bednar & Co. Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Pokecheque
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Staying even keeled is a real important trait. People act like it's a bad thing but it's exactly what a young team needs
In all seriousness this next stretch on the road without MacKinnon will be a huge test. Hopefully Bednar puts some of the kids (Greer, hint hint) in a position to succeed and ensconce their place in the lineup. I didn't like the Gork-Soda-Comeau line the other night at all, so I'm hoping to see a different look for tonight's game going forward.
Checking back in...some good, some bad. All in all the team is performing relatively well given the circumstances IMO.
One thing that's really starting to stick in my craw though--using Patrik Nemeth over Nikita Zadorov (or ANYONE, really) when trying to close out games. Inevitably it turns into them being parked in the defensive zone, he gets it, ices it, team loses ensuing defensive zone faceoff, rinse and repeat. For a guy I have praised excessively for being unconventional, this is truly exasperating to see.
Could be worse, I know, but it's still annoying nonetheless.
One thing that's really starting to stick in my craw though--using Patrik Nemeth over Nikita Zadorov (or ANYONE, really) when trying to close out games. Inevitably it turns into them being parked in the defensive zone, he gets it, ices it, team loses ensuing defensive zone faceoff, rinse and repeat. For a guy I have praised excessively for being unconventional, this is truly exasperating to see.
Could be worse, I know, but it's still annoying nonetheless.
I haven't liked our 3rd periods much at all these last ~10 games or so.
When we have the lead, we're not still trying to dictate the play and push the play like we were during the winning streak and even before that. We've reverted back into the heavy turtle mode that we were so good at in years past.
And, when we're trailing, we're still not doing a good enough job at pushing the play in the 3rd either.
Part of this might have to do with not having Mackinnon as a big offensive driver and guy who can push the play well. And having other guys moved up the lineup when they're not really ready to play the higher roles.
We'll see what happens when Mack comes back but the 3rd period has been an issue for this team for a little while now and it needs to change if we're going to make a legitimate run for the playoffs down the stretch.
When we have the lead, we're not still trying to dictate the play and push the play like we were during the winning streak and even before that. We've reverted back into the heavy turtle mode that we were so good at in years past.
And, when we're trailing, we're still not doing a good enough job at pushing the play in the 3rd either.
Part of this might have to do with not having Mackinnon as a big offensive driver and guy who can push the play well. And having other guys moved up the lineup when they're not really ready to play the higher roles.
We'll see what happens when Mack comes back but the 3rd period has been an issue for this team for a little while now and it needs to change if we're going to make a legitimate run for the playoffs down the stretch.
I'm sorry but the way the entire team is breaking out now, or the lack of it has to be on the coaching staff.
Chipping the puck into the neutral zone or off the glass as a first thought is just dumb shit that we've been trying to get away from as a team for as long as I can remember.
Soda's penalty last night, and Z of all people doing it unforced when we actually win the F/O and the other team is backing up stand out to me the most. You can count on one hand how many times a lateral pass was made when breaking out in that game when it didn't involve D to D and the other team changing. The amount of shots Montreal got last night were to blame for us simply forking over the puck unforced or otherwise into the neutral zone. Not to mention the spike in dumb shit icings from guys like Nemeth and Landeskog when there is an empty net.
Why the team has actually f***ing regressed in this area since we lost a couple of games and had some rough outings in the later part of the 10 game streak is just mind blowing and asinine. If it was one or two guys like Nemeth I wouldn't blame it on the coaching staff preaching simplicity and north south crap, but it's become a team mentality. Bednar and the entire team has become scared stupid.
We were actually developing a possession mentality, and that's gone right out the window. I get simplifying the game when you can't score, but that should apply in the offensive zone and to hail marry stretch passes not your break out.
Chipping the puck into the neutral zone or off the glass as a first thought is just dumb shit that we've been trying to get away from as a team for as long as I can remember.
Soda's penalty last night, and Z of all people doing it unforced when we actually win the F/O and the other team is backing up stand out to me the most. You can count on one hand how many times a lateral pass was made when breaking out in that game when it didn't involve D to D and the other team changing. The amount of shots Montreal got last night were to blame for us simply forking over the puck unforced or otherwise into the neutral zone. Not to mention the spike in dumb shit icings from guys like Nemeth and Landeskog when there is an empty net.
Why the team has actually f***ing regressed in this area since we lost a couple of games and had some rough outings in the later part of the 10 game streak is just mind blowing and asinine. If it was one or two guys like Nemeth I wouldn't blame it on the coaching staff preaching simplicity and north south crap, but it's become a team mentality. Bednar and the entire team has become scared stupid.
We were actually developing a possession mentality, and that's gone right out the window. I get simplifying the game when you can't score, but that should apply in the offensive zone and to hail marry stretch passes not your break out.
I had a loooooong-ass post planned, but I'm really trying not to do that so here goes.
1. I don't think it's just the coaches, though I believe they're getting a bit too conservative.
2. Losing MacKinnon, Barberio, and Andrighetto has taken out a ton of speed, creativity, and puckmoving ability out of the lineup. Like, A TON. Opposing defenders and forecheckers used to back way off, now they attack with abandon. How many times did the Avs cough up the puck just inside their own blue line the other night?
3. The resulting lineup with those guys out is, yes, broken record time, a lineup considerably slower and with way too many guys who are horrid with the puck. There are the obvious suspects (Nemeth, Lindholm, Bourque, hell, even Yakupov) and other guys who are good but not great with the puck (Wilson, Compher). That's not their fault, it's not their role. Other players need to do the heavy lifting, their job is to play defense, create space, maybe finish, but that's it. The breaking out, the setups, those players aren't in the lineup right now. So yeah, it's chip-it-out time because they don't have the right guys to execute the usual breakout scheme.
4. There has been a real and noticeable regression in the play of three key players IMO: Landeskog, Johnson, and Soderberg. Probably just wear and tear on three of the team's older players but those guys are simply not playing at the same level they were to start the year. Not bad overall, per se, but all three have laid some real eggs a few times lately.
Well...shit. Still a long post. Oh well, at least I didn't hit my usual Grantland-wannabe levels.
1. I don't think it's just the coaches, though I believe they're getting a bit too conservative.
2. Losing MacKinnon, Barberio, and Andrighetto has taken out a ton of speed, creativity, and puckmoving ability out of the lineup. Like, A TON. Opposing defenders and forecheckers used to back way off, now they attack with abandon. How many times did the Avs cough up the puck just inside their own blue line the other night?
3. The resulting lineup with those guys out is, yes, broken record time, a lineup considerably slower and with way too many guys who are horrid with the puck. There are the obvious suspects (Nemeth, Lindholm, Bourque, hell, even Yakupov) and other guys who are good but not great with the puck (Wilson, Compher). That's not their fault, it's not their role. Other players need to do the heavy lifting, their job is to play defense, create space, maybe finish, but that's it. The breaking out, the setups, those players aren't in the lineup right now. So yeah, it's chip-it-out time because they don't have the right guys to execute the usual breakout scheme.
4. There has been a real and noticeable regression in the play of three key players IMO: Landeskog, Johnson, and Soderberg. Probably just wear and tear on three of the team's older players but those guys are simply not playing at the same level they were to start the year. Not bad overall, per se, but all three have laid some real eggs a few times lately.
Well...shit. Still a long post. Oh well, at least I didn't hit my usual Grantland-wannabe levels.
Foppa2118
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- Oct 3, 2003
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It will be really interesting to see how the team plays when Nate gets back. I don't think the team's struggles lately is all to do with missing him. His absence has a lot to do with it for sure, but team's have clearly figured out Bednar's tweaked system this year, in the last month or so.
Almost every team plays them very physically, even teams that don't normally play a physical game, and they're stifling a lot of their breakouts. A lot of the Habs game looked like the team from a couple years ago that just couldn't get out of their zone, and they have a lot more D men now that skate and handle the puck better than they did on prior teams.
Bednar's gonna have to get together with Bennett and tap into his wealth of experience, because they're gonna have to make some adjustments the last couple months here, if they're gonna make the playoffs. Calgary, Anaheim, or LA will snag that 3rd pacific division spot, so it's likely gonna be a five team race for the final two wild card spots between the Avs, Dallas, Minny, and two of Calgary/Anaheim/LA.
The margin for error is gonna be pretty small, and very possibly could end up coming down to a tiebreaker for the final spot. Coaching will make a difference with such a small margin for error.
Almost every team plays them very physically, even teams that don't normally play a physical game, and they're stifling a lot of their breakouts. A lot of the Habs game looked like the team from a couple years ago that just couldn't get out of their zone, and they have a lot more D men now that skate and handle the puck better than they did on prior teams.
Bednar's gonna have to get together with Bennett and tap into his wealth of experience, because they're gonna have to make some adjustments the last couple months here, if they're gonna make the playoffs. Calgary, Anaheim, or LA will snag that 3rd pacific division spot, so it's likely gonna be a five team race for the final two wild card spots between the Avs, Dallas, Minny, and two of Calgary/Anaheim/LA.
The margin for error is gonna be pretty small, and very possibly could end up coming down to a tiebreaker for the final spot. Coaching will make a difference with such a small margin for error.
Something is definitely up. Again in the Edmonton game the Avs were failing to exit the zone with the puck. Tons of turnovers just inside their own blue line. Again, I still think part of this has to do with too much Nemeth, who can't do a damned f***ing thing with the puck except ice it, and the fact that he's dragging Girard down like a pair of cement shoes.
One other thing, and this actually predates Bednar...why are the Avs so terrible at generating traffic in front of the net? And when they do they have to be dead last in the league in accurately deflecting the puck on-net as well as pouncing on rebounds. And don't anyone tell me it's a size thing--the only guy who's any good at deflections and greasy goals in front of the net is Alex Kerfoot. Before that it was guys like Rene Bourque (big guy but not exactly what you'd call "gritty") and Danny Briere. I don't even know if it's something teams practice, but the Avs absolutely should.
One other thing, and this actually predates Bednar...why are the Avs so terrible at generating traffic in front of the net? And when they do they have to be dead last in the league in accurately deflecting the puck on-net as well as pouncing on rebounds. And don't anyone tell me it's a size thing--the only guy who's any good at deflections and greasy goals in front of the net is Alex Kerfoot. Before that it was guys like Rene Bourque (big guy but not exactly what you'd call "gritty") and Danny Briere. I don't even know if it's something teams practice, but the Avs absolutely should.
forsbergavs32
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This is something I've noticed too, especially on the PP. The guy we have in the middle of the slot (which is a terrible spot anyway, that guy may as well just be out of the play) should be causing havok in front of the net.
expatriatedtexan
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Which is why I suggested earlier that EJ could be used as a net-front presence on the PP. I agree with the responses though that he shouldn't be used any differently than he has though because of how many minutes he was already eating and how good his season was going until the injury. The point remains, I'd like to see our PP's involve a big (or at least nasty), immovable player creating havoc in front of the net looking to screen the goalie and capitalize on rebounds/redirects. Not sure who could do this...Landy? Wilson?
Regardless, it would require more shots on net to work than the AVs have really shown an ability to generate on a regular basis so far.
Regardless, it would require more shots on net to work than the AVs have really shown an ability to generate on a regular basis so far.
Again, I don't think it takes a big guy to do that. Who are some of the best net-front presence guys the Avs have ever had? Lemieux was a big guy, yes, but Hejduk? Svatos? Briere? It takes a certain skill set, an ability to get to pucks quickly and slam them in, a willingness to take punishment, but it doesn't necessarily take size. I don't know why the the Avalanche make it look so hard, it shouldn't be.
They're clearly trying to use guys like Wilson for that, sometimes Jost, but neither of them are doing a very good job thus far. Kerfoot's the only guy doing an even decent job of it thus far. Landeskog can crash the net but he's never been a guy who stands in the slot, he likes to work along the end boards and behind the net.
But yes, they need to quit looking for the perfect shot. It's exasperating to watch them on the power play right now, especially Compher who's gotten super-hesitant with the puck of late.
They're clearly trying to use guys like Wilson for that, sometimes Jost, but neither of them are doing a very good job thus far. Kerfoot's the only guy doing an even decent job of it thus far. Landeskog can crash the net but he's never been a guy who stands in the slot, he likes to work along the end boards and behind the net.
But yes, they need to quit looking for the perfect shot. It's exasperating to watch them on the power play right now, especially Compher who's gotten super-hesitant with the puck of late.
It might be just me, but you can't coach willingness to take a beating. Some people have it in them, and some don't. Avs have been littered with guys who prefer to play on the perimeter, with a couple exceptions sprinkled here and there. We also don't focus a lot on maintaining zone possession and don't generate a lot of shots from the point (because we have no point threat to speak of), but rather generate offense from the rush.
I'm gonna disagree there. Last year, definitely true. There were slews of players either unwilling (Colborne, Grigorenko) or unable (Iginla, Beauchemin, Tyutin, Wiercioch) to win races to or battles for the puck, and get into high-traffic areas. There is no real lack of that willingness from this group, especially from the smaller players.
No, what's really lacking is skill. Last night you could see it. Perfect dish by Girard to Comeau who did his usual run-around-the-perimeter-and-do-nothing play. You could tell he WANTED to cut inside or find a passing lane, but he's not quick/skilled enough to get the defense to move. In what has been an ongoing season-long facepalm for me, Colin Wilson had perfect positioning just outside the hashmarks with a WIDE open goalmouth, only to fumble the puck with no one on him. And for all his skill and grit, Compher is below-average when it comes to settling down passes. So many turnovers and missed opportunities have been the direct result of the puck pinging right off his stick after trying to receive a perfect outlet pass. BTW, while I am frustrated to see that, it'd be unfair to really call them out on this. We shouldn't be expecting high-end puck skill from a career 3rd line forward and a rookie who's known more for his two-way game. And Comeau is WYSIWYG, which is why I'd like for the Avs to move on despite his invaluable contributions this season.
There are players who are puck magnets, and unfortunately there are too many players on the Avs who have their N/S ends turned the wrong way. And they added YET ANOTHER player who's bad with the puck in Duncan Siemens. That's one big reason why this team is so lousy right now at possession and sustaining offense when the big line isn't out there--they literally can't possess the puck. We saw signs of life at least when the team started to skate and used their speed to open things up, it's the only way they're going to win games. Too often during their bad stretch they just stood still. I can see why Bednar is frustrated with this group--sometimes as a whole they just decide not to skate. I guess that's the downside of having an extremely young team like this.
That's not to say I think this is all on personnel--I think Bednar (and more specifically, Pratt) have a downright-lousy defensive scheme going on, especially late in games. But this post is already getting too long so I'll wait on that.
No, what's really lacking is skill. Last night you could see it. Perfect dish by Girard to Comeau who did his usual run-around-the-perimeter-and-do-nothing play. You could tell he WANTED to cut inside or find a passing lane, but he's not quick/skilled enough to get the defense to move. In what has been an ongoing season-long facepalm for me, Colin Wilson had perfect positioning just outside the hashmarks with a WIDE open goalmouth, only to fumble the puck with no one on him. And for all his skill and grit, Compher is below-average when it comes to settling down passes. So many turnovers and missed opportunities have been the direct result of the puck pinging right off his stick after trying to receive a perfect outlet pass. BTW, while I am frustrated to see that, it'd be unfair to really call them out on this. We shouldn't be expecting high-end puck skill from a career 3rd line forward and a rookie who's known more for his two-way game. And Comeau is WYSIWYG, which is why I'd like for the Avs to move on despite his invaluable contributions this season.
There are players who are puck magnets, and unfortunately there are too many players on the Avs who have their N/S ends turned the wrong way. And they added YET ANOTHER player who's bad with the puck in Duncan Siemens. That's one big reason why this team is so lousy right now at possession and sustaining offense when the big line isn't out there--they literally can't possess the puck. We saw signs of life at least when the team started to skate and used their speed to open things up, it's the only way they're going to win games. Too often during their bad stretch they just stood still. I can see why Bednar is frustrated with this group--sometimes as a whole they just decide not to skate. I guess that's the downside of having an extremely young team like this.
That's not to say I think this is all on personnel--I think Bednar (and more specifically, Pratt) have a downright-lousy defensive scheme going on, especially late in games. But this post is already getting too long so I'll wait on that.
expatriatedtexan
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Good post @Pokecheque. My biggest concern about relying on generating offense through the rush is that in the playoffs, I don't think that is going to work. I know, I should (and indeed would) be happy just to see the AVs make the playoffs at this point but I want the team to be built to win in the playoffs, not just make it. If we are relying on the rush or PP for all our goals, I think we've got a problem.
I agree, they can't rely on the rush. They have to sustain drives in the attacking zone and wear down the defense. Again, that's a skill thing. More often than not it lands on someone's stick who ends up turning it over.
One big beef I got with the defensive scheme right now is their insistence on having two guys waaaaaay high in the zone if they do anything other than a controlled zone entry. How many times do we have to watch a guy go down low, win the puck battle, and center it with NO ONE even in the TV picture before they do something different!? They'd score a hell of a lot more, or at least generate more shots (which...y'know, leads to...more scoring).
To offer a counterpoint, however, I can kinda see why Bednar/Pratt may be a little reluctant to go balls-out when indeed they don't have the skill to capitalize on scoring chances or really sustain offensive drives. But I still think they'd be better off with a more aggressive scheme in both zones that takes advantage of their speed.
One big beef I got with the defensive scheme right now is their insistence on having two guys waaaaaay high in the zone if they do anything other than a controlled zone entry. How many times do we have to watch a guy go down low, win the puck battle, and center it with NO ONE even in the TV picture before they do something different!? They'd score a hell of a lot more, or at least generate more shots (which...y'know, leads to...more scoring).
To offer a counterpoint, however, I can kinda see why Bednar/Pratt may be a little reluctant to go balls-out when indeed they don't have the skill to capitalize on scoring chances or really sustain offensive drives. But I still think they'd be better off with a more aggressive scheme in both zones that takes advantage of their speed.
Freudian
Clearly deranged
- Jul 3, 2003
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In general I like how he handles younger players. He does give him them more minutes when they earn it but is careful not to overwork them.
I'm not sure the Sodaberg line is earning the minutes they are getting at this point but if it helps building the rookies, it's fine.
I'm not sure the Sodaberg line is earning the minutes they are getting at this point but if it helps building the rookies, it's fine.
Sure, I would argue that Z's benching is more deserved though. Girard makes mistakes, yes, but I don't think he necessarily makes them as the result of lack of effort. The stretch of play that landed Z back in the doghouse absolutely was. Weak, soft play from Zadorov is simply not acceptable. Keep in mind Bednar did not bench #16 for a dumb turnover where he tried to skate through two guys past his own blue line and it ended up as a goal against. The soft turnovers and weak passes behind or near the net that led to goals against did.
I notice Bednar makes his PKers change a LOT more than the average. I wasn't sure of this until I saw Vegas against the Kings last night. They kept Wild Bill out there on the main PK unit for a pretty sizable shift before he finally went off. With the Avs almost no matter what, when they ice it, they go off. Maybe one foray to pressure the puck carrier but not much more. Guess it's working so this isn't a complaint but it's interesting how diligent they are about it.
I kinda wish they did a better job with even strength line changes...sometimes I feel like they kill their own momentum when they waste a zone entry because they gotta change. And I think I said this before--I REALLY hate it when they send a guy on the forecheck, he wins the battle/race for the puck, and can't do anything with it because the rest of the team is making the world's slowest line change.
I kinda wish they did a better job with even strength line changes...sometimes I feel like they kill their own momentum when they waste a zone entry because they gotta change. And I think I said this before--I REALLY hate it when they send a guy on the forecheck, he wins the battle/race for the puck, and can't do anything with it because the rest of the team is making the world's slowest line change.
Bump time.
I invite you (if you have access) to read this article on Jason Spezza and his (mis)usage by Hitch this season.
Jason Spezza was never given a true chance to succeed this...
For those who can't get the full article, here's a clip:
He goes on to say that Spezza has excelled with Matthias Janmark on his wing, yet Hitch constantly rotates Spezza onto different lines and in different roles, wing, center, checker, scorer, grinder, whatever, all while switching linemates on him like underwear.
Any time people bellyache about how Bednar is too hard on Zadorov, I just want to point at guys like this and Mike Babcock to show you what it REALLY looks like when a coach throws a player in the doghouse. And it's one thing to torpedo a player who didn't play well, but to seemingly do so before he even plays a single shift for you is another.
It should be pointed out that part of the reason the Stars went from 2 down against Toronto last night to up 4-2 is because Hitch iced a line of Janmark-Spezza-Radulov.
I'm actually quite fond of Hitch, but old-school coaches annoy the hell outta me at times. Bednar is many things...old-school is not one of them.
I invite you (if you have access) to read this article on Jason Spezza and his (mis)usage by Hitch this season.
Jason Spezza was never given a true chance to succeed this...
For those who can't get the full article, here's a clip:
He goes on to say that Spezza has excelled with Matthias Janmark on his wing, yet Hitch constantly rotates Spezza onto different lines and in different roles, wing, center, checker, scorer, grinder, whatever, all while switching linemates on him like underwear.
Any time people bellyache about how Bednar is too hard on Zadorov, I just want to point at guys like this and Mike Babcock to show you what it REALLY looks like when a coach throws a player in the doghouse. And it's one thing to torpedo a player who didn't play well, but to seemingly do so before he even plays a single shift for you is another.
It should be pointed out that part of the reason the Stars went from 2 down against Toronto last night to up 4-2 is because Hitch iced a line of Janmark-Spezza-Radulov.
I'm actually quite fond of Hitch, but old-school coaches annoy the hell outta me at times. Bednar is many things...old-school is not one of them.
I feel like Bednar is the best coach at not playing favourites compared to coaches from the other teams I follow around the world.
Yeah, he seems to do a really good job at this.
Plays guys that are playing well and doesn't play guys that are struggling. My only complaint is the ice time Nemeth gets, but with injuries to our other Dmen it's hard to distribute those minutes elsewhere right now.
Hopefully when EJ is back those minutes start to balance out more.
Plays guys that are playing well and doesn't play guys that are struggling. My only complaint is the ice time Nemeth gets, but with injuries to our other Dmen it's hard to distribute those minutes elsewhere right now.
Hopefully when EJ is back those minutes start to balance out more.
Foppa2118
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- Oct 3, 2003
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He may have less favorites than some, but he still has them. Ben Smith over Gabriel Bourque or McLeod was an obvious one. I never understood what he saw in Smith, and what he didn't like in Bourque. Smith was a clear cut AHLer, and Bourque was a clear cut NHLer in my eyes.
The Avs are just a young team, so there's not that many vets to play favorites with.
I think he's managing this teams emotions right now exceptionally well though. These are pressure packed games. They could have given up against Minny when they were playing terrible on the road, but they clawed their way back in, and picked up some goals to keep Varly from having to do it all himself.
Bednar still has his favorites (Bourque anybody), but he is pretty solid at giving out ice time as it is earned.
I've given Bednar plenty of crap over last year and the summer... but credit where credit is due. This team is looking to be in the mid 90s, which is a solid 10-10+ points above where they should be on paper. His coaching made last year worse, but this year his coaching is making the team better to a pretty good pace. He has pushed the right buttons and has this team playing well. He still has some flaws, but he should be commended for his job this year.
I've given Bednar plenty of crap over last year and the summer... but credit where credit is due. This team is looking to be in the mid 90s, which is a solid 10-10+ points above where they should be on paper. His coaching made last year worse, but this year his coaching is making the team better to a pretty good pace. He has pushed the right buttons and has this team playing well. He still has some flaws, but he should be commended for his job this year.
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