Waived: Jan Mursak clears waivers

[Bench]

Kid is a class act. He's a smart kid who kept awesome grades in junior. He's polite and stays out of trouble while the rest of his junior team was in the police blotter.

Speaking of good grades, time to study up for the GRE!

Hudler is to eva, as Mursak is to _______.

 

[solo16]

Just to note, Solo16. You resorted to insults. So when I do, don't cry about it.

I would not call that an insult, more stating the obvious. You are having a hissy fit essentially claiming to be a great hockey mind with NO facts (or reasonable point) in favor of your position. Mine is simple. No GM wanted him. Our Coach played other players before him. Therefore he is not an NHL player.

But you have my permission to throw whatever you want back at me. I am not easily upset and I enjoy a good pointed debate. Lets just keep is somewhat fact based rather than just rubbish.

This is a message board after all.

 

[solo16]

it's another thing when you're blocked by Patrick Eaves, Danny Cleary, Drew Miller, Todd Bertuzzi and Mikael Samuelsson on a first round loser.

All players deemed by his coach to be better than him. Such that they would rather lose him for nothing. Even if we concede the point that all the players above are horrible fringe NHLers it is abundantly clear that Mursak has been judged to be even less valuable.

Even Miller couldn't clear waivers (last time he was waived).

I think Mursak has some potential but he is 100% lacking in something. There is a reason Babcock has given chances to Tartar, Helm, Abdelkader, and Andersson before Mursak. Do I know that reason? No. But his resume probably trumps both of ours combined.... Or wait does 17,000 posts (yours) on a message board trump winning the championship as a coach at EVERY SINGLE LEVEL OF HOCKEY.

I would suspect it is probably two things. The same two things Babcock has against all players. He is not willing to work hard enough and he is not willing to go into the hard areas of the ice. The Tartar, Helm, Abdelkader and Andersson are showing they are willing to do it so they play. Mursak.... has yet too. Hell its the same reason Dan Cleary plays. Its the same reason Hank and Dats are the best two way centers in the world.

You either play Babcock's way (the winning way) or you don't play.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

All players deemed by his coach to be better than him. Such that they would rather lose him for nothing. Even if we concede the point that all the players above are horrible fringe NHLers it is abundantly clear that Mursak has been judged to be even less valuable.

Even Miller couldn't clear waivers (last time he was waived).

I think Mursak has some potential but he is 100% lacking in something. There is a reason Babcock has given chances to Tartar, Helm, Abdelkader, and Andersson before Mursak. Do I know that reason? No. But his resume probably trumps both of ours combined.... Or wait does 17,000 posts (yours) on a message board trump winning the championship as a coach at EVERY SINGLE LEVEL OF HOCKEY.

I would suspect it is probably two things. The same two things Babcock has against all players. He is not willing to work hard enough and he is not willing to go into the hard areas of the ice. The Tartar, Helm, Abdelkader and Andersson are showing they are willing to do it so they play. Mursak.... has yet too. Hell its the same reason Dan Cleary plays. Its the same reason Hank and Dats are the best two way centers in the world.

You either play Babcock's way (the winning way) or you don't play.

There is also a reason why Babcock locked Hudler on line 4 and puts Tatar at 10 minutes a night and why he plays Lashoff instead of Kindl.

It's hilarious that people still talk like you do about Babcock.
By the way, Abdelkader now has 2 whole assists in 24 games, dating back to the playoffs. He's also a minus player in that time. And he's had plenty of 2nd and 3rd line shifts.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

I would not call that an insult, more stating the obvious. You are having a hissy fit essentially claiming to be a great hockey mind with NO facts (or reasonable point) in favor of your position. Mine is simple. No GM wanted him. Our Coach played other players before him. Therefore he is not an NHL player.

But you have my permission to throw whatever you want back at me. I am not easily upset and I enjoy a good pointed debate. Lets just keep is somewhat fact based rather than just rubbish.

This is a message board after all.

And once again, instead of addressing the opinion, you resort to garbage about hissyfits.

 

[Heaton]

People say we need to have three scoring lines, or at very least people who can score on each line. But when we actually have players playing on those lines who can score and are offensively gifted they're being wasted because they're not playing in the top 6.

We're finally getting contributions from our lower lines, but it's a waste?

As for people clamoring that our prospects are all bitter about playing in the minors for longer than normal. I guarantee and would bet on it that the fans are the only ones bitter. You'll never hear any player complain because they understand it's a business. Brendan Smith will only leave here as a UFA if he sucks.

 

[LarKing]

If you read the thread im obviously on your side. That post was just too funny not to post.

Ah, my bad.

 

[CloneHakanPlease*]

People say we need to have three scoring lines, or at very least people who can score on each line. But when we actually have players playing on those lines who can score and are offensively gifted they're being wasted because they're not playing in the top 6.

We're finally getting contributions from our lower lines, but it's a waste?

As for people clamoring that our prospects are all bitter about playing in the minors for longer than normal. I guarantee and would bet on it that the fans are the only ones bitter. You'll never hear any player complain because they understand it's a business. Brendan Smith will only leave here as a UFA if he sucks.

You guarantee this how?

I'm sure some understand it's business.
I'm sure some are pissed about not playing.
I am close friends with Cam Fowler and I know him and a lot of other people in the O didn't want to be drafted by the Wings for that exact reason.

I swear almost everyone on this forum thinks, or at least comes across as people who think in nothing but absolutes. People are different. Some will be ok with it. Some won't. And for ****s sakes people need to stop dropping the "immature" line, these people are born competitors with a limited shelf life, who as of yet have made **** money. Most people reading this would at least be mildly anxious too. If anything, a bit of cockiness and entitlement is good and reassuring. Do you really think a coach likes hearing "Thats fine coach, I'm content with playing in the AHL"?

 

[Heaton]

You guarantee this how?

I'm sure some understand it's business.
I'm sure some are pissed about not playing.
I am close friends with Cam Fowler and I know him and a lot of other people in the O didn't want to be drafted by the Wings for that exact reason.

I swear almost everyone on this forum thinks, or at least comes across as people who think in nothing but absolutes. People are different. Some will be ok with it. Some won't. And for ****s sakes people need to stop dropping the "immature" line, these people are born competitors with a limited shelf life, who as of yet have made **** money. Most people reading this would at least be mildly anxious too. If anything, a bit of cockiness and entitlement is good and reassuring. Do you really think a coach likes hearing "Thats fine coach, I'm content with playing in the AHL"?

You may be right, but I still don't buy it. I'm sure players have different perceptions for a lot of teams, but you'll never see an Eli Manning situation because they've been drafted by the Wings. The other thing is, the Wings team is basically full of homegrown talent, so players do a get their chance, just not as quick as some other teams.

 

[solo16]

And once again, instead of addressing the opinion, you resort to garbage about hissyfits.

Pointing out that you are having one is hardly garbage or a personal attack. It is a simple truth.

What has Mursak showed that makes him better than Hat Trick Dick? Dick has more offensive talent and was equally cast aside because he was not willing to go to work hard off the ice and go to the hard areas on the ice. Correct answer very little. Both will never be full time NHL players.

What has Emmerton shown that Mursak has not? He has stayed healthy. He showed Babcock that he could play safe albeit not flashy and earned a permanent spot. He is now getting more and more time and starting to show his offensive skills. Looks like an NHL player because he took his chances and ran with it. Mursak has done nothing to show he belongs in the nhl. He has 4 points in 40 games. Emmerton has 10 in 80. One of the two plays the game the way the coach wants and the other is waiver fodder playing in the AHL. That's life kid.

What does Mursak offer that Eaves does not? Eaves is better defensively, pks, goes to the hard areas, is gritty, and probably has a better shot. Eaves still has a hard time staying in the lineup because we need more size in our Brasses estimation. Keeping both Eaves and Mursak is a redundancy at best. At worst Eaves is simply a better player and he is currently sitting as our 13th forward. Eaves has shown he is an NHL player against the odds. He has earned a spot on the team as a reserve forward and occasionally gets looks on the top lines.

 

[SoupNazi]

The other thing is, the Wings team is basically full of homegrown talent, so players do a get their chance, just not as quick as some other teams.

True. Four of our normal top six come from in-house, as does the majority of the roster.

If these kids are patient they get a chance to play here. I'm confident we will see a few more of them get extended looks this season or next.

 

[Heaton]

True. Four of our normal top six come from in-house, as does the majority of the roster.

If these kids are patient they get a chance to play here. I'm confident we will see a few more of them get extended looks this season or next.

And just to be clear I'm not saying I agree with how the prospects are being handled, but some people make it sound like no one ever gets a chance.

 

[solo16]

And just to be clear I'm not saying I agree with how the prospects are being handled, but some people make it sound like no one ever gets a chance.

I am mostly with Heaton on this one. I have my gripes about how our prospects are used. I think we all do. The difference is I see a pretty clear pattern of our prospects getting chances and the brass keeping them in the nhl.

At some point there is a line between Hockey and Fantasy Hockey. Therefore ultimately I placate myself at the fact that Tartar is not on the top line and that Sheahan is not our 4th line center. While those are both good opinions.... ultimately I am probably more wrong than right when put up against Babcock and Holland.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

I am mostly with Heaton on this one. I have my gripes about how our prospects are used. I think we all do. The difference is I see a pretty clear pattern of our prospects getting chances and the brass keeping them in the nhl.

At some point there is a line between Hockey and Fantasy Hockey. Therefore ultimately I placate myself at the fact that Tartar is not on the top line and that Sheahan is not our 4th line center. While those are both good opinions.... ultimately I am probably more wrong than right when put up against Babcock and Holland.

Sheahan is in his first AHL season. There's no need to rush him.

The concern will come if he's sitting in the AHL 2 years from now.

A guy like Ferraro, for instance, really should get his shot next year.

He'll probably finish with 20 to 25 goals. He's got speed. He's learn the PK. But there's not going to be any real opportunity for Ferraro next year. Even if we cut loose Miller and Cleary, you've still got to make room for 24-year-old Nyquist
And there will be pressure for Holland to bring in a UFA.

The pat answer from Holland supporters has been that a player must DOMINATE in the AHL before he gets his chance. And that's so out of touch with the reality of how players develop.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

You guarantee this how?

I'm sure some understand it's business.
I'm sure some are pissed about not playing.
I am close friends with Cam Fowler and I know him and a lot of other people in the O didn't want to be drafted by the Wings for that exact reason.

I swear almost everyone on this forum thinks, or at least comes across as people who think in nothing but absolutes. People are different. Some will be ok with it. Some won't. And for ****s sakes people need to stop dropping the "immature" line, these people are born competitors with a limited shelf life, who as of yet have made **** money. Most people reading this would at least be mildly anxious too. If anything, a bit of cockiness and entitlement is good and reassuring. Do you really think a coach likes hearing "Thats fine coach, I'm content with playing in the AHL"?

I heard the same things said by kids in the USA program in Ann Arbor a few years ago.
Kids with the talent to be considered by the NHL are usually confident kids. They want to make the NHL ASAP. Two extra years in the AHL is $800,000 to $1.6M they'll never get back.
And it's about more than money.

it's about the dream.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Pointing out that you are having one is hardly garbage or a personal attack. It is a simple truth.

What has Mursak showed that makes him better than Hat Trick Dick? Dick has more offensive talent and was equally cast aside because he was not willing to go to work hard off the ice and go to the hard areas on the ice. Correct answer very little. Both will never be full time NHL players.

What has Emmerton shown that Mursak has not? He has stayed healthy. He showed Babcock that he could play safe albeit not flashy and earned a permanent spot. He is now getting more and more time and starting to show his offensive skills. Looks like an NHL player because he took his chances and ran with it. Mursak has done nothing to show he belongs in the nhl. He has 4 points in 40 games. Emmerton has 10 in 80. One of the two plays the game the way the coach wants and the other is waiver fodder playing in the AHL. That's life kid.

What does Mursak offer that Eaves does not? Eaves is better defensively, pks, goes to the hard areas, is gritty, and probably has a better shot. Eaves still has a hard time staying in the lineup because we need more size in our Brasses estimation. Keeping both Eaves and Mursak is a redundancy at best. At worst Eaves is simply a better player and he is currently sitting as our 13th forward. Eaves has shown he is an NHL player against the odds. He has earned a spot on the team as a reserve forward and occasionally gets looks on the top lines.

Patrick Eaves? Have you been watching him? His skating has declined. He's not as engaged as he once was.
Eaves is one concussion away from being done in the NHL. We're keeping a 28-year-old guy who has no future on the team.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

The Mursak deal is part of the Tatar deal is part of the Quincey deal.

This team prefers washed up veterans over young kids. Period.

it made sense when your washed up vets were superstars. It doesn't make sense when they are Cleary and Sammy and Eaves.

 

[DRWCountryClub]

I get a laugh ever time people bring up Emmerton's "offensive" game.

He's got 1 goal and 1 assist in 19 games, would average what, seven goals over 82 games, yet this is proof he's head and shoulders better than Mursak? I don't get it.

Mursak used to be thought of as a good, fast, two way type guy who could play the PK but now he's no good defensively? What happened there?

Seriously though, what is the love affair with Emmerton? The guy ads nothing to this team.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I get a laugh ever time people bring up Emmerton's "offensive" game.

He's got 1 goal and 1 assist in 19 games, would average what, seven goals over 82 games, yet this is proof he's head and shoulders better than Mursak? I don't get it.

Mursak used to be thought of as a good, fast, two way type guy who could play the PK but now he's no good defensively? What happened there?

Seriously though, what is the love affair with Emmerton? The guy ads nothing to this team.

Mursak had 4 points in 46 games. Couldn't play center. Or stay healthy.
Emmerton can play center. And contribute on the PK. And he stays healthy.
Tatar has 6 points in 11 games.
Andersson has 5 points in 9 games. He can also play center.

Two prospects - Tatar and Andersson - have clearly passed him up. Emmerton simply has better utility due to being able to play center. And PK. And stay healthy.

It's really that simple.

 

[Roy S]

The Wings management doesn't think the vets are "washed up," though. Just the fans do. There seems to be a perception that as soon as a prospect has a good year in the AHL, he should be brought up and plugged in to the lineup and the vet should be cast away. But, it's also hard to build team continuity and culture that way and the vet, in a lot of the cases, is still the better player.

They prefer established players whose production is relatively easy to predict and to bring along the prospects slowly. They play on the lower lines first against the other teams worst players, learn from the established vets on the team about how to conduct themselves on and off the ice, and they are not pressured into a large role that they may not be able to take on right away. Even Darstuk and Zetterberg had variations of that upbringing- although they were able to get more ice time bc of their elite ability. But, Zetterberg didn't even come over and play until he was already an Olympian. If that isn't a textbook case of the "overripe philosophy" then I don't know what is. On a team like the Oilers, he would have come over a year or two earlier than he would have here, played top line minutes and been the focal point of the team almost immediately and wouldn't have had the ability to learn from the Yzerman's, Shannahans, Lidstrom's, etc. Would he still be the same player today if he didn't have that slow, steady development? Probably, but who knows?

Their general approach is a mixture of what is best for the prospect and what is best for the team in the short and long term to be able to keep a consistent string of success year after year. A lot of what is discussed in this thread seems overly focused on what is good for the prospect and assumes that just giving them a bunch of playing time at the first sign they are ready for it is the best course of action. But, there are a lot of variables that go into that both at the individual and team level. Not to mention, it's been somewhat ironic to watch the board's reaction to Brian lashoff's playing time. Due to injuries and weakening depth after losing vets like Lidstrom, Rafalski and Stuart, he's been spoon fed minutes he's not ready for. It only took a few games before posters wanted him benched in favor of older, more experienced players.

Regardless, I see nothing wrong with how they are handling Tatar. He's 22 yrs old, playing 12 minutes a night and they carved out a role he's been successful at and have put him in a position to succeed. Given the injury situation and how he's played thus far, he'll end up playing on the team the majority of the season in a pretty decent sized role before he gets added responsibilities next season.

 

[DRWCountryClub]

Mursak had 4 points in 46 games. Couldn't play center. Or stay healthy.
Emmerton can play center. And contribute on the PK. And he stays healthy.
Tatar has 6 points in 11 games.
Andersson has 5 points in 9 games. He can also play center.

Two prospects - Tatar and Andersson - have clearly passed him up. Emmerton simply has better utility due to being able to play center. And PK. And stay healthy.

It's really that simple.

Since I mentioned Tatar and Andersson in my post? Its fine that they have surpassed Mursak, but I still don't see anything worthwhile about Emmerton. There are better fourth line centers who do what he does and can actually excel at something.

 

[solo16]

Sheahan is in his first AHL season. There's no need to rush him.

The concern will come if he's sitting in the AHL 2 years from now.

A guy like Ferraro, for instance, really should get his shot next year.

He'll probably finish with 20 to 25 goals. He's got speed. He's learn the PK. But there's not going to be any real opportunity for Ferraro next year. Even if we cut loose Miller and Cleary, you've still got to make room for 24-year-old Nyquist
And there will be pressure for Holland to bring in a UFA.

The pat answer from Holland supporters has been that a player must DOMINATE in the AHL before he gets his chance. And that's so out of touch with the reality of how players develop.

You are right for the most part. I personally see Ferraro as two years out best case. Just the type of player he is. Sheahan is in no rush but... would he seems mostly ready for a bottom line role.

 

[DRWCountryClub]

Ferraro is looking like a nice player to have on the third line, Sheahan seems to be doing very well too, in his first real pro season. Would you guys have Sheahan pegged as a guy who can play in the top six? Or is he the perfect third line center?

Man, with Jarnkrok, Sheahan, Ferraro, Tatar, Nyquist all getting close, this is actually really exciting. Here's hoping the skilled guys are given the opportunities.

 

[heyfolks]

Talk to anyone who knows Mursak.

Kid is a class act. He's a smart kid who kept awesome grades in junior. He's polite and stays out of trouble while the rest of his junior team was in the police blotter.

So when some dude on the Internet hears and interview and says Jan sounded "entitled," I roll my eyes.

Jan is done here. He never got a shot here.
And that's why I wish he got claimed.

The Wings should let him go to Europe and get out of the system

+1

Mursak will head to Europe and make some nice $$$. It would not surprise me to see him find his way into the NHL after a few years of play over seas.

 

[VladTheImpaler]

Ferraro is looking like a nice player to have on the third line, Sheahan seems to be doing very well too, in his first real pro season. Would you guys have Sheahan pegged as a guy who can play in the top six? Or is he the perfect third line center?

Man, with Jarnkrok, Sheahan, Ferraro, Tatar, Nyquist all getting close, this is actually really exciting. Here's hoping the skilled guys are given the opportunities.

I think Sheahan is an ideal bottom-six center, but he does seem to be displaying more scoring touch this year than he has in the past. I think he could possibly play some wing in the top-six every now and then and be an effective net presence player on the power-play.

Just my opinion.