Confirmed with Link: Jake Walman to Edmonton for F Carl Berglund and Conditional 1st

[LadyStanley]

 

[rekrul]

RFA Offer $1 - $1,511,701	None
$1,5111,701 - $2,290,457	1 3rd-round pick
$2,290,457 - $4,580,917	1 2nd-round pick
$4,580,917 - $6,871,374	1 1st-round pick, 1 3rd-round pick
$6,871,374 - $9,161,834	1 1st-round pick, 1 2nd-round pick, 1 3rd-round pick

Does that #1 pick have to be SJS? if not maybe GMMG can do a offer sheet like the blues did last year

 

[STL Shark]

RFA Offer $1 - $1,511,701	None
$1,5111,701 - $2,290,457	1 3rd-round pick
$2,290,457 - $4,580,917	1 2nd-round pick
$4,580,917 - $6,871,374	1 1st-round pick, 1 3rd-round pick
$6,871,374 - $9,161,834	1 1st-round pick, 1 2nd-round pick, 1 3rd-round pick

Does that #1 pick have to be SJS? if not maybe GMMG can do a offer sheet like the blues did last year

Has to be your own pick in an offer sheet.

 

[zombie kopitar]

I still don't understand this boards obsessive rush to contend. Celebrini is 18, Smith is 19, Dickinson is still in the CHL.

Grier has done a master class rebuilding the prospect pool and acquiring good trade assets.

I think many are concerned with creating a losing culture. I think Mack is a potential champion level leader, so I think we'll be alright long term, but he clearly hates the losing part of this team. And I agree there needs to be some patience , and Grier has been killing it, really nice seeing Smith taking huge steps the last few weeks

And geez, what a complete fleece on this deal

 

[Jargon]

I didn't think much of it at the time but right after the Granlund trade Grier did specifically tell the media he wants to draft "future core players" with our 1st, the Dallas 1st and our 2nd. That doesn't mean he won't trade the latter two picks under any circumstances, but I don't think he plans to.

My guess is we'll be shopping in the Walman/Ceci market again. Maybe we're giving up a late 2nd and 3rd this time instead of getting them as sweeteners so we can expect defensemen with slightly better reputations but highly unlikely they'll be Byram or Dobson caliber.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Grier, after that trade, specifically mention having tradeable assets and references the Askarov trade? To me it sounded like he was gathering up ammo in case another deal like that became available.

 

[Juxtaposer]

1st and 2nd for nothing is a phenomenal move. I liked Walman but he never hit a griddy as a Shark and therefore he needed to go.

I still don't understand this boards obsessive rush to contend. Celebrini is 18, Smith is 19, Dickinson is still in the CHL.

Grier has done a master class rebuilding the prospect pool and acquiring good trade assets. While he hasn't done much yet in terms of building toward a contender via trades (acquiring established players) he still managed to acquire a 1C, Dickinson, and 1G. If we land Schaefer we are basically set on the hardest pieces to acquire and can begin to build toward future contender status.

I have faith in Grier to do this an I believe he is executing his personal plan to perfection as I don't think he planned to be super competitive this year or even next. I think he wanted to see improvement, which he got despite the standings, and I will wait to see what he does in the offseason and during the season next year. Patience is key

There is no "obsessive rush to contend". There is "desire not to be the laughing stock of the NHL and that means having more than zero (0) top-4 defenseman, as we do now that we have traded Walman".

 

[WATTAGE4451]

He turned pro in 2016-17 and didn't appear in more than 32 games in a NHL season until 2022-23 when he was 26/27 years old. That season and the first 20 games or so this year are the only points in his career that he's looked anything like a #4D. Sure, defensemen take a bit longer to develop than forwards, but that's a very limited track record of success for a 29 year old. This fanbase loves to shit on Ferraro but he's played 150 more games than Walman despite being 2.5 years younger. You know what you're going to get from Ferraro but Walman is still a wild card despite nearing the end of his physical prime.

He appeared in 51 games in 2021-2022 despite being injured in december and later being out due to covid. Obviously you didnt actually watch him play and his career.

Your whole argument of him not being regular in first 5 years is based on you reading his 2021-2022 season as 2 different seasons He played 51 games. 32 with St. Louis, 19 with detroit. That was 1 season. Not 2 different seasons he played under33 And he was a regular. He was injured both early in year with st. Louis and later had covid.

 

[coooldude]

There is no "obsessive rush to contend". There is "desire not to be the laughing stock of the NHL and that means having more than zero (0) top-4 defenseman, as we do now that we have traded Walman".

I, too, am concerned about the uphill climb required to build an NHL blueline in this offseason. In Grier We Trust, but if we go into next season with a similar or worse blue line, In Grier We Concern re: climbing out of the basement.

 

[sampler]

BTW, bouvillier just went for a '25 2nd.

This is why i think the walman deal is a C-. a late '26 1st is not that much more valuable than a late '25 2nd.

bouviller is a 3/4th liner pending UFA. Walman is a good sized, top 4D with another year secured at a salary currently at least 3M+ undervalued.

how could these two get similar returns??? So what that Walman was a cast away last summer! So what!/ things change, and this was the first year he was given a real shot, and he ran with it.

Sure, he could struggle next year. Sure, he could regress, but his value today, should be WAAAAY more than an anthony bouvillier. This is why anything less than the equivalent of two first rounders is an underwhelming return. I get that sturm wont land much, but moving up from 7th to 4th is likely an underreturn for the top FO guy in the NHL. And vanecek for free is, well, zero return.

So far, I cannot say I like grier's moves. If he can get a 2nd for kunin, that would be nice. Kunin and bouvillier seem similar in value to me. And a '25 first for ferraro would be fine too.

Then we go into the '25 draft with three 1st rounders and two 2nd rounders. Thats enough capital to add enough top prospects to hopefully complete the farm stocking.

Then, we can go shopping for short term, overpaid, stop gap UFA's like Wennberg to be at least not dead last. We can also deal the '26 draft capital to get young unsigned RFA's after the UFA period ends based on how well we do.

As I ponder, I am OK with using the '25 draft capital to pick 3-5 more top prospects, as long as the '26 capital is used to add some quaity young NHLers and the UFA period brings in 2 or 3 legit top 4 D and top 9F (overpaid short term deals).

how about this:
1. Provorov for 2 yr, 22M deal.
2. Orlov or Nate Schmidt, 1 yr, 6 to 8M.
2. marchand 1 yr, 9M
3. kane: 1 yr 6M.

It's a strange but fascinating strategy. here's the rationale:

You get your 2 vet D, and two top 6F. So next year you dont completely and totally suck. two outcomes possible:
1. you play surprisingly well. the vets lead well, and the kids step up, and low and behold you make a PO run. Unlikely, but not impossible. You play it out...

2. Much more likely, you still stink, but hopefully not dead last stink. Provorov, Orlov, Mukh become the russian trio on D. Liljgren Thrun and thompson fill in. Possible that Dick or Cagnoni also come in. the D stinks, but about the same as this year (provorov in place of walman, Orlov in place of ferraro, if hes dealt today).

However, given the term, you can likely easily flip each of the 1 yr deals at the deadline, including using your one retention slot to make a deal. You add more '26 draft capital bascially for free.

I would be OK with this kind of rebuild plan. Try to overpay qualify UFAs to come on 1-2 year deals (like Wennberg). Hope to compete and put a quality product on the ice while you uy development time, and continue stocking draft capital by selling those short term UFAs at the deadline. Then, when the kids are ready to take over, strike hard! turn that draft capital into quality prime age NHLers to compliment the kids and go for it.

 

[Hodge]

He appeared in 51 games in 2021-2022 despite being injured in december and later being out due to covid. Obviously you didnt actually watch him play and his career.

Your whole argument of him not being regular in first 5 years is based on you reading his 2021-2022 season as 2 different seasons He played 51 games. 32 with St. Louis, 19 with detroit. That was 1 season. Not 2 different seasons he played under33 And he was a regular. He was injured both early in year with st. Louis and later had covid.

Don't care. He sucks, he's too old for this core and I'm glad he's gone.

 

[WATTAGE4451]

Don't care. He sucks, he's too old for this team and I'm glad he's gone.

how do you know he sucks? You obviously dont pay attention outside of the sharks and based your whole argument you repeated 1 million times on the fact you ckuldnt read a stat sheet correctly. Excluding the callup due to injuries where he played 1 game. He was a regular with the blues after 1 season til they traded them and good with the red wings despite a down year last season that you are exaggerating how bad itnwas.

its weird how pride works. People think they hold their honor by not admitting when they were wrong when in realjty that just makes you a joke rather rhan if you made a mistake then people would take you more seriously.


Next time try reading correctly before spiuting bs 20+ times

 

[Cas]

BTW, bouvillier just went for a '25 2nd.

This is why i think the walman deal is a C-. a late '26 1st is not that much more valuable than a late '25 2nd.

bouviller is a 3/4th liner pending UFA. Walman is a good sized, top 4D with another year secured at a salary currently at least 3M+ undervalued.

how could these two get similar returns??? So what that Walman was a cast away last summer! So what!/ things change, and this was the first year he was given a real shot, and he ran with it.

Sure, he could struggle next year. Sure, he could regress, but his value today, should be WAAAAY more than an anthony bouvillier. This is why anything less than the equivalent of two first rounders is an underwhelming return. I get that sturm wont land much, but moving up from 7th to 4th is likely an underreturn for the top FO guy in the NHL. And vanecek for free is, well, zero return.

Well, for one, I think you're significantly overvaluing Walman (he's a #4 as long as you have a strong defensive RD paired with him - he's not what I would call a "top four defenseman" and I think he's being paid fairly for his actual value).

Really, you're overvaluing everyone.

• Sturm is winning faceoffs so well that he's actually taking only two-thirds as many faceoffs this season as compared to last season. Yes, he's winning the ones he's taking, but why is he taking so many fewer? Why is he playing more than 4 fewer minutes per game? Well, it's because he's really not very good - he can't handle the puck to save his life (which significantly impairs his defense - he can win the faceoff, but he can't clear the zone), and his offense consists almost entirely of taking advantage of the chaos that someone else created. He also can't stay healthy. I'm pleasantly surprised he returned a 4th.
• Vanacek is an expensive backup goaltender on an expiring deal. He's not good.
• Kunin is bad offensively and defensively - like, actively bad at everything except hitting people and taking advantage of chaos in front of the net. That has utility, but not a lot of value. I'm hoping we can sucker someone into giving us a 3rd, but I think he's less valuable on the ice than Sturm (and I have never thought much of Sturm - he's a guy you ideally scratch during the playoffs).

Secondly, trade value is never consistent, because the market is constantly shifting (literally minute by minute at the deadline), different management teams value different players very differently, and the needs of teams don't always match up to what is available. What one player returns doesn't necessarily tell you anything about another, broadly similar player.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I, too, am concerned about the uphill climb required to build an NHL blueline in this offseason. In Grier We Trust, but if we go into next season with a similar or worse blue line, In Grier We Concern re: climbing out of the basement.

I just don't know how Grier is possibly going to build a passable defense going into next season. Kovacevic re-signing in NJ for a pittance doesn't help matters.

How do you even acquire four top-4 D in one offseason? Let's make a bold prediction and say Mukhamadullin's recent stretch is for real. Ferraro-Liljegren is a good bottom pair, assuming Ferraro sticks around. We're still stuck trying to find three top-3 defensemen, two of which need to be righties (which are wildly expensive). The best case scenario is something like (1) win the draft lottery, Schaefer earns a top-4 role out of camp, (2) a top UFA (basically Ekblad or Gavrikov) signs with us, and (3) Grier is able to cook up a trade for a middle-pairing righty. That's a lot of work and counts on a lot of things outside our control (ie there's no way a top free agent signs with us). I just don't know how you drastically improve this D core the way it needs to be drastically improved just to be "not a laughingstock".

 

[Hodge]

how do you know he sucks? You obviously dont pay attention outside of the sharks and based your whole argument you repeated 1 million times on the fact you ckuldnt read a stat sheet correctly. Excluding the callup due to injuries where he played 1 game. He was a regular with the blues after 1 season til they traded them and good with the red wings despite a down year last season that you are exaggerating how bad itnwas.

its weird how pride works. People think they hold their honor by not admitting when they were wrong when in realjty that just makes you a joke rather rhan if you made a mistake then people would take you more seriously.


Next time try reading correctly before spiuting bs 20+ times

Okay you convinced me Walman is actually amazing. Enjoy him on the Oilers bud.

 

[Cas]

I just don't know how Grier is possibly going to build a passable defense going into next season. Kovacevic re-signing in NJ for a pittance doesn't help matters.

How do you even acquire four top-4 D in one offseason? Let's make a bold prediction and say Mukhamadullin's recent stretch is for real. Ferraro-Liljegren is a good bottom pair, assuming Ferraro sticks around. We're still stuck trying to find three top-3 defensemen, two of which need to be righties (which are wildly expensive). The best case scenario is something like (1) win the draft lottery, Schaefer earns a top-4 role out of camp, (2) a top UFA (basically Ekblad or Gavrikov) signs with us, and (3) Grier is able to cook up a trade for a middle-pairing righty. That's a lot of work and counts on a lot of things outside our control (ie there's no way a top free agent signs with us). I just don't know how you drastically improve this D core the way it needs to be drastically improved just to be "not a laughingstock".

I don't think Grier is going to build a passable defense next season. I don't think that's the plan.

Our future passable defense is going to be primarily built internally. We've got a couple of years before we see it.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I don't think Grier is going to build a passable defense next season. I don't think that's the plan.

Our future passable defense is going to be primarily built internally. We've got a couple of years before we see it.

I do think the plan is to build a passable defense next season. I just think that the idea is to have it largely come from internal options. I just think we're going to have to deal with some growing pains that are largely consistent with developing defensemen as part of it. Ferraro still being on the table right now signals to me a belief in Mukhamadullin for sure and maybe others being at least ready to begin their NHL development as early as next season. It's going to be monumentally difficult to acquire two legitimate top 4 RHD's but guys are out there. We just have to wait it out and see what happens this offseason.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I don't think Grier is going to build a passable defense next season. I don't think that's the plan.

Our future passable defense is going to be primarily built internally. We've got a couple of years before we see it.

So another year of tanking? That's absolutely unacceptable.

If our "future" defense is only "passable" then Grier has failed horribly in this rebuild.

 

[Hodge]

So another year of tanking? That's absolutely unacceptable.

If our "future" defense is only "passable" then Grier has failed horribly in this rebuild.

Did you really think the rebuild would only take 2 years? I would much rather be in the running for McKenna or Verhoeff next year than competing for a wild card spot on the backs of 30+ year old UFA and trade acquisitions. If we outperform expectations it needs to be because Celebrini, Smith, Eklund and Askarov are driving those results.

We have the potential to build a dynasty that dominates the 2030s. Let's avoid lowering the ceiling of that future contender for the sake of accelerating to a first or second round exit that we've all seen a dozen times before.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Did you really think the rebuild would only take 2 years? I would much rather be in the running for McKenna or Verhoeff next year than competing for a wild card spot on the backs of 30+ year old UFA and trade acquisitions. If we outperform expectations it needs to be because Celebrini, Smith, Eklund and Askarov are driving those results.

We have the potential to build a dynasty that dominates the 2030s. Let's avoid lowering the ceiling of that future contender for the sake of accelerating to a first or second round exit that we've all seen a dozen times before.

Holy f*** are you ever misunderstanding my point.

There is no amount of improvements the Sharks can make this summer that gets them close to the playoffs. That's a given. The ceiling on this team next year is like, still a top-5 draft pick. The team that is in the 5th overall draft slot right now has THIRTEEN more points than us. I want to make up that thirteen points in the standings over the summer by having a real f***ing NHL defense. We will still be getting a great prospect from the 2026 draft without putting Celebrini, Smith, and Eklund through another incredibly painful losing season. Have you seen Connor Bedard lately? Depressed and regressing. That's what you risk doing to Celebrini if you don't make a significant stride this summer.

The rebuild may have technically only been two years so far, but we haven't been to the playoffs in SIX.

 

[one2gamble]

I don't think Grier is going to build a passable defense next season. I don't think that's the plan.

Our future passable defense is going to be primarily built internally. We've got a couple of years before we see it.

hes 100% going to try, I just dont know if he can

 

[sampler]

I just don't know how Grier is possibly going to build a passable defense going into next season. Kovacevic re-signing in NJ for a pittance doesn't help matters.

How do you even acquire four top-4 D in one offseason? Let's make a bold prediction and say Mukhamadullin's recent stretch is for real. Ferraro-Liljegren is a good bottom pair, assuming Ferraro sticks around. We're still stuck trying to find three top-3 defensemen, two of which need to be righties (which are wildly expensive). The best case scenario is something like (1) win the draft lottery, Schaefer earns a top-4 role out of camp, (2) a top UFA (basically Ekblad or Gavrikov) signs with us, and (3) Grier is able to cook up a trade for a middle-pairing righty. That's a lot of work and counts on a lot of things outside our control (ie there's no way a top free agent signs with us). I just don't know how you drastically improve this D core the way it needs to be drastically improved just to be "not a laughingstock".

yep, I don't think he can build a reasonable blueline next year, and I cannot see him signing any UFA to term after trading walman. This move strikes me as a shift in strategy. Instead of looking to add some key long term pieces this summer, I think this move strikes me as a decision to continue the rebuild a few more years, and attempt respectability by adding guys on 1-2 year deals.

I now fully expect him to use the draft capital, at least this year, to actually pick players. I also fully expect some massive over pays for 1-2 year deals for middle 6 guys (ala wennberg, or a guy like marchand) and middle pair D. I am sure any respectable UFA Dman is likely looking for term and that will disqualify the sharks. As such, it will be the Nate Schmidts and Dmitry Orlovs of the world getting 1-2 years at 7+M per year.

The goal is to be not dead last, hope for respectability, buy time for the kids, maintain flexibility, and have moveable contracts that can transform into even more draft capital in march '26 in case of the likely on ice struggles.

Based on this move, he clearly does not see next year as a year to genuinely attempt to compete and rise up. Seems he sees next year as another developmental year for both the NHL kids (Eklund, Smith, Celly, Mukh, Graf, Thompson, and Askarov) as well as the prospects, most of which will likely stay pro or go pro (Cagnoni, Musty, Dickinson, Chernyshov, Haltunnen, Bystedt, Lund, Cardwell, Pohlcamp, and maybe even laubach and Muldowney, though I expect they will stay in college as will svoboda, while Wetsch and roberts stay in juniors. Not sure Misskey's future...).

Then, depending on how '25-'26 goes, I expect grier to start signing more long term in TDL/draft day/Summer '26. After all, by one year from now, the sharks will have a WAY better sense of what they have. Clearly, Celly is special. Smith has found his groove. The question is what do they have in Mukh, Cags, Thompson, cherny, musty, etc. These guys will show what they are...

 

[SjMilhouse]

Holy f*** are you ever misunderstanding my point.

There is no amount of improvements the Sharks can make this summer that gets them close to the playoffs. That's a given. The ceiling on this team next year is like, still a top-5 draft pick. The team that is in the 5th overall draft slot right now has THIRTEEN more points than us. I want to make up that thirteen points in the standings over the summer by having a real f***ing NHL defense. We will still be getting a great prospect from the 2026 draft without putting Celebrini, Smith, and Eklund through another incredibly painful losing season. Have you seen Connor Bedard lately? Depressed and regressing. That's what you risk doing to Celebrini if you don't make a significant stride this summer.

The rebuild may have technically only been two years so far, but we haven't been to the playoffs in SIX.

I mean I don't know Hasso and missing the playoffs for 6 years is crazy but I feel like it's not really fair to look at those 4 years as part of the rebuild. I think of us going into year 3 of the rebuild in terms of my internal timeline. Sunk cost and all that.

I also don't think Grier needs to fully rebuild the defense in 1 off season. Would I like him to? Absolutely, but if he does it over the next 2 years and we start pushing for the playoffs in 3 then I think that's a reasonable time frame. I just don't see keeping Walman as a huge difference maker in rebuilding the defense in 1 off season vs 2 without him.

 

[Cas]

So another year of tanking? That's absolutely unacceptable.

If our "future" defense is only "passable" then Grier has failed horribly in this rebuild.

I'm expecting it to be better than "passable."

Our future defense is going to hopefully be built around Schaefer-Dickinson on the left, with a right side either brought in externally or anchored by someone drafted in 2026. We won't see those two in a major role until 26-27.

Mukhamadullin is someone I suspect either comes in behind Dickinson if we don't get Schaefer, fills a bottom pair role, or gets swapped for something else useful. Cagnoni and Sahlin Wallenius might turn into something useful. On the right, Thompson, Pohlkamp, Roberts, Misskey, or Landen might be useful pieces, but none of them have realistic top four upside.

Anything we have in the interim is just filler. Realistically, we didn't have a passable defense this season anyway, and keeping Walman, Ceci, and Ferraro isn't going to really help next season either, because we're not acquiring the two-three top four defensemen we'd need to push them down the depth chart into more reasonable roles for them.

What could we have had, going into next season, had we kept everyone?

Walman - Ceci
Ferraro - Liljegren
Mukhamadullin - Desharnais
Thrun

Cagnoni, Thompson in the AHL, Dickinson in the OHL, maybe Schaefer in the NCAA or OHL, Vlasic bought out. Sure, maybe we don't pick up Desharnais in this scenario, but he cost virtually nothing.

Now who do we add, realistically, who can start pushing people down the depth chart? We have one less 1st to play with, maybe one less 4th (Ceci). Dobson? Byram? I don't think we have the ammo in this scenario. Nemec? Clarke? I don't think they push Ceci down yet. Who else - Broberg, Kesselring, Romanov, Marino, Samuelsson, guys who might be better than our extant top four, or might not?

Realistically, our being awful in 25-26 was already predetermined years ago. It's going to suck and we just have to be patient and bear with it.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I mean I don't know Hasso and missing the playoffs for 6 years is crazy but I feel like it's not really fair to look at those 4 years as part of the rebuild. I think of us going into year 3 of the rebuild in terms of my internal timeline. Sunk cost and all that.

I also don't think Grier needs to fully rebuild the defense in 1 off season. Would I like him to? Absolutely, but if he does it over the next 2 years and we start pushing for the playoffs in 3 then I think that's a reasonable time frame. I just don't see keeping Walman as a huge difference maker in rebuilding the defense in 1 off season vs 2 without him.

You overestimate what I mean by "passable". I mean "at least three top-4 defensemen". I didn't even necessarily say a single top-pairing D. You need someone to make it so we aren't running around in our defensive zone every time Celebrini hits the ice. Walman wasn't perfect but he was that guy.

 

[Hodge]

Holy f*** are you ever misunderstanding my point.

There is no amount of improvements the Sharks can make this summer that gets them close to the playoffs. That's a given. The ceiling on this team next year is like, still a top-5 draft pick. The team that is in the 5th overall draft slot right now has THIRTEEN more points than us. I want to make up that thirteen points in the standings over the summer by having a real f***ing NHL defense. We will still be getting a great prospect from the 2026 draft without putting Celebrini, Smith, and Eklund through another incredibly painful losing season. Have you seen Connor Bedard lately? Depressed and regressing. That's what you risk doing to Celebrini if you don't make a significant stride this summer.

The rebuild may have technically only been two years so far, but we haven't been to the playoffs in SIX.

Who gives a shit about the playoffs? I've seen more than enough Sharks 1st, 2nd and 3rd round exits in years where they never had a realistic chance of winning it all. The last thing Grier should be doing is accelerating the rebuild to atone for DW's mismanagement. The only goal should be opening up a 5-7 year window where the Sharks are a consistent Cup favorite then actually winning the damn thing.

Bedard is miserable because he's being exposed as a souped up Alex DeBrincat and his dreams of a $100M post-ELC payday are slowly fading away. Not to mention he probably realizes he has no help coming - maybe Levshunov can be a #2 but he's not gonna single-handedly change their fortunes, Korchinski is looking like a bust, Nazar/Moore are smurfs, etc. We already have the makings of a much stronger young core than them between Celebrini, Smith, Eklund, Dickinson and Askarov. Add Schaefer and maybe Ethan Belchetz to that group and it will be really easy to assemble a Cup favorite around them.