i dont know why people bring up voynov. he was timid and shaky, not a turnover machine.
think if sutter goes with 7D it limits the **** ups that can happen.
think if sutter goes with 7D it limits the **** ups that can happen.
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kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
Man I love you back seat driver, Monday morning quarterback, arm chair GM's
... Muzzin sucks SIT him !
... Ellerby sucks send him to the ECHL !
... Scuderi has lost a step trade him !
... Regehr is slow trade him too !
... Kopitar hasn't scored in forever Bench him he has NO HEART !
... Brown sucks has no hockey IQ, trade him for a real player !
... Richards sucks, Booo ! Booo !
... Penner OMG he SUCKS, waive him before I dunno what ! but keep his twitter account THAT's gold !
... Stoll, he sucks, we'll call call him Stool, so funny HA HA !
... Sutter, playing 7 D-men ? what the hell is he thinking ? FIRE HIM !
... Lombardi, did he do enough at the Trade deadline ? FIRE HIM !
... AEG, those cheap A-holes, SELL THE TEAM and MOVE to Canada !
I swear, if any of YOU were in charge, we NEVER ! would have WON a CUP ! Hell we might not HAVE A TEAM ? as you think everyone SUCKS ! LOL
CHILL OUT, enjoy the ride ... there's nothing YOU can do about it anyways !
For posts like this we need a 'like' button. Spot on. I think 90% of the board has ADHD and is like that dog from Up
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
I'll leave out the likes of Brodin, Smith and Schultz since they are in the upper echelon of rookie defensemen, but how about these guys?
Dalton Prout
Brendan Dillon
Danny DeKeyser
Brian Strait
Tyson Barrie
Radko Gudas (oh how I wish the Kings had drafted him)
Matt Irwin
Patrick Wiercioch
Michael Stone
Thomas Hickey (hey there's a familiar name)
Those are some names that stood out as rookies for playing regularly with their respective clubs and not looking out of place. I left out other names such as Despres, Hamilton, Erixon, etc. due to them being highly touted guys along with the names mentioned earlier, and they're younger and have less experience than Muzzin as well.
All I'm asking for is for him to eliminate his mistakes and make simple plays, but as I stated, the simple plays can be a great challenge for Muzzin. Someone else described him perfectly, he has a "dear in the headlights" look when he's facing pressure. I view the way he handles pressure as a significant weakness in Muzzin's game.
MynameisKing
Registered User
Yes he is a rookie, but the mistakes he is making are fundamentals 101! C'mon!!! Flip floating pass through the middle of the ice right before the defensive blueline? And that was an unforced turnover too! He has done it time and time again! You can probably go back and youtube them all to run a camp of what not to do as a defensemen at any level! To those who say he's getting better. I think it's because he does well at everything else such as coverage, situation on the ice, and physically he belongs. But the fundamentals!!! Kid get an instructor please!!!
Frolov 6'3
Unregistered User
Exactly. Nobody expects him being a stud and mistakes are a common thing for a rookie defenseman. Yet he frightens the hell out of everyone when he has the puck. That's something different. Call me an idiot but I wished DD44 was still here.
Live in the Now
Registered User
I agree with this. It's one thing to make mistakes, it's another to make them so often that people expect him to make them...and then he does. It's no coincidence that the Kings get pinned in their zone very often when Muzzin is in the game.
Live in the Now
Registered User
Sheng Peng
Registered User
With the eye test, I thought so too, but numbers for scoring chances given up favor Muzzin a lot in this series. Also, the coaching staff picked him over Ellerby, so there's that indication for who's playing better. We can all agree that neither guy has been very good this series.
etherialone
dialed in your mom
Muzzin is significantly better then each of the players that you have listed and the stats bare me out. Muzzin was paired with Ellerby for large amounts of time during his short season and still ended up leading all rookie d in +/- and second in points (his 7 goals leads too).
He was considerably better than Shultz and Dillon made tons of mistakes. Most of the guys you listed played very sheltered minutes and Muzzin was left to fend for himself quite often. What I see in Muzzin is the same thing I used to see in young Kings goalies.
Stauber came up as a Hobie Baker winner and was thrown to into the Lions den. He faced an average of 37shots per game with a high of 47 in his 5th game. The guy probably still flinches in his sleep as a result of all the rubber he faced as a King and in the end his career was ruined by it.
I have followed Muzzin closely for a long time now and he simply needs time. He was brought into our line up as a result of need and as a result has had to play over his head for his entire first season. When he is consistently paired with a reliable Dman he settles down and does an admirable job.
When he is thrown to the wolves his weaknesses are exposed like any other rookie.
Brodin was terrible in the five games that he was paired with Stoner (he went minus -3 and saw 11mins on average) and he is equally terrible when paired with Spurgeon but put him with Suter and he is an "elite" rookie dman who's numbers in every category are worse than Muzzin's.
All of that said I stand by my evaluation of the kid. He isn't a world beater. He isn't a top pairing Dman. He isn't going to develop into an amazing vunderkind. He is as solid as any of his peers and better then all but a couple. In time he will be a very good mobile hybrid sort of dman who should play on our 3rd pairing and be able to step up for short periods of time to play on our second PP unit.
He is making bonehead mistakes but not so many more than any of his peers. He is tied right at the top of all significant rookie D categories for the playoffs where stats are concerned and is holding his own. I don't expect him to be anything other than a solid 3rd pairing Dman with a little O upside after he gets a seasons worth of experience under his belt.
He should be our 7th dman now but we can't afford the luxury of making him wait nor can we pair him with Suter so that the kid looks like jebus christmas either. Muzzin is doing his best and again, is better than almost every other rookie dman and certainly right there with the best of them that are still in the playoffs.
Thinking he will be more is only going to lead to disappointment. His bonehead mistakes will disappear once he is paired with a solid experienced SAH dman for a couple of months. Put Muzzin with Greene (like we did during MG's short time back) and Muzzin looks pretty good.
Watch every Wild game left to them and focus on Brodin when he isn't being covered by Suter or watch any of the other rookie D and see how often they are paired with ANY other rookie D and you will see how well Muzzin is doing all things considered.
Muzzin earned his regular season stats while playing with Quick not up to his best in the league self on most nights and often with another rookie. He finished with the best +/- and 3rd in points among his peers. He is a good young rookie Dman who will be fine once he gets a full season under his belt and is paired with a solid SAH.
Just like A Mart was hated and questioned and turned out right Muzzin will too. Just a matter of time.
Puck U
2012 SC CHAMPIONS !
etherialone
dialed in your mom
Voynov looks like a veteran out there.
Scuderi has had some bag turnovers or missed clearing attempts this series but Muzzin has had some real bonehead plays.
Scuderi has had some bag turnovers or missed clearing attempts this series but Muzzin has had some real bonehead plays.
kingsfan28
Its A Kingspiracy !
This. With all the crap we give him, I think many forget he has barely 50 NHL games under his belt and is a rookie.
I cannot believe how many clueless posters there are in this thread. Folks there are reasons Sutter keeps playing Muzzin. First of all he is a big strong kid -- he gets hit hard and the other player just bounces off. There is a reason golden boy Voynov doesn't play 30 minutes a night like Doughty (he can't take the pounding). Secondly, he has a hard left handed shot -- ever watch Regehr and Scuderi shoot the puck? it's embarrassing.
Really folks, Muzzin isn't putting himself in the lineup, Sutter (remember that dummy) is. And that goal "he" singlehandedly gave up -- shortly after a nearly identical play happened where Scuderi
(I think he is playing hurt) lost his man behind the net, then fell down and the Blues player walked out in front only this time the other Dman (Martinez) prevented him from passing or getting a scoring chance (unlike Doughty who just stood and watched).
The guy is -2 same as Doughty -- really. jMFj would routinely be -2 before the anthem finished.
The reality is the Blues pressure is relentless and virtually every King is losing the puck and making bad passes -- Scuderi is so weak he can hardly move the puck at all. Muzzin struggles but he is definitely adding crucial dimensions to the D. Leave him alone.
Really folks, Muzzin isn't putting himself in the lineup, Sutter (remember that dummy) is. And that goal "he" singlehandedly gave up -- shortly after a nearly identical play happened where Scuderi
(I think he is playing hurt) lost his man behind the net, then fell down and the Blues player walked out in front only this time the other Dman (Martinez) prevented him from passing or getting a scoring chance (unlike Doughty who just stood and watched).
The guy is -2 same as Doughty -- really. jMFj would routinely be -2 before the anthem finished.
The reality is the Blues pressure is relentless and virtually every King is losing the puck and making bad passes -- Scuderi is so weak he can hardly move the puck at all. Muzzin struggles but he is definitely adding crucial dimensions to the D. Leave him alone.
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
- Apr 6, 2006
- 32,582
- 11,766
None of the guys you mentioned that were on teams that didn't make the post-season have seen the kind of pressure that Muzzin has during this playoff series.
Muzzin will be a much better player for this experience.
Strait is playing well for the Islanders, but is a 25-year old rookie and is playing on the Islanders' top pairing tonight. Good for them.
Muzzin has made some bonehead plays, but I'm not going to crucify the guy. He is being asked to play outside what his role should be, which is on the bottom pairing with an experienced SAH defenseman.
SLang
Registered User
I think you are selling him short Ziggy. I'm willing to wait 'til next year to see what this year's experience brings him, along with an off-season to work on his issues.
Shellz
Registered User
Some of you really need to relax when it comes to criticizing Muzzin.. he's just a kid. He's going to make mistakes and they will be in the playoffs. I want to see more of him before I make a a fair observation of him.
It's obviously really difficult to watch the kid play and see him struggle so much.. but, this right now is the most important time for any rookie..especially for a defenseman.
It would not be fair to see him traded away just because he didn't blossom fast enough. He may never work out as a King and when that time comes, I will be okay with that. But, that isn't right now and hopefully won't be for another couple seasons. As long as he's progressing, he should stay a King or at least give the team a nice return.
It's obviously really difficult to watch the kid play and see him struggle so much.. but, this right now is the most important time for any rookie..especially for a defenseman.
It would not be fair to see him traded away just because he didn't blossom fast enough. He may never work out as a King and when that time comes, I will be okay with that. But, that isn't right now and hopefully won't be for another couple seasons. As long as he's progressing, he should stay a King or at least give the team a nice return.
The Butcher
Mammoth Mooseknuckles Hockey
... Muzzin sucks SIT him !
... Ellerby sucks send him to the ECHL !
... Scuderi has lost a step trade him !
... Regehr is slow trade him too !
... Kopitar hasn't scored in forever Bench him he has NO HEART !
... Brown sucks has no hockey IQ, trade him for a real player !
... Richards sucks, Booo ! Booo !
... Penner OMG he SUCKS, waive him before I dunno what ! but keep his twitter account THAT's gold !
... Stoll, he sucks, we'll call call him Stool, so funny HA HA !
... Sutter, playing 7 D-men ? what the hell is he thinking ? FIRE HIM !
... Lombardi, did he do enough at the Trade deadline ? FIRE HIM !
... AEG, those cheap A-holes, SELL THE TEAM and MOVE to Canada !
I swear, if any of YOU were in charge, we NEVER ! would have WON a CUP ! Hell we might not HAVE A TEAM ? as you think everyone SUCKS ! LOL
CHILL OUT, enjoy the ride ... there's nothing YOU can do about it anyways !
While I agree that the negativity sucks to listen to sometimes but discussing which hockey players suck and which don't is probably the primary purpose of this board.
Whiskeypete
Registered User
Look at this from another perspective. Suppose YOUR job and existence was open for all to see and comment on. You made mistakes as you began a new job or career also. Around the office and breakrooms we would hear this....
Did you catch the presentation the new guy gave? What a tool. Its clear he lacks practical experience in the field. Another newbie we have to train up and deal with now.
Jim this proposal for the new client looks great but there is one issue. Your sales proposal is wrong. Very wrong. If we presented this to them its possible we would lose their business.
Seriously folks this can go on forever.
In our lives we dont have guys coming at us at 20mph that weigh 225, looking to put you through your cube wall. (although i would love to do this daily to some co workers)
Lighten up folks, you make mistakes also. The kid is learning under fire and more pressure than most will ever experience.
Did you catch the presentation the new guy gave? What a tool. Its clear he lacks practical experience in the field. Another newbie we have to train up and deal with now.
Jim this proposal for the new client looks great but there is one issue. Your sales proposal is wrong. Very wrong. If we presented this to them its possible we would lose their business.
Seriously folks this can go on forever.
In our lives we dont have guys coming at us at 20mph that weigh 225, looking to put you through your cube wall. (although i would love to do this daily to some co workers)
Lighten up folks, you make mistakes also. The kid is learning under fire and more pressure than most will ever experience.
Rorschach
Who the f*** is Trevor Moore?
Muzzin has the hardest and best shot in the entire Kings organization. That plus his size make the Kings want to develop him by fire. But in this series where he hasn't put his shot into play, especially on the power play, then it's all bad with him.
He needs to shoot. If we have 7 D, that's ok too if he's going to mainly play PP with some sheltered 5 on 5 minutes.
He needs to shoot. If we have 7 D, that's ok too if he's going to mainly play PP with some sheltered 5 on 5 minutes.
Rorschach
Who the f*** is Trevor Moore?
Puck U
2012 SC CHAMPIONS !
LOOK over there EBERLLY with a TurnOver ...
LOOK over there MUZZIN with a TurnOver ....
KINGS WIN the GAME !!!
HYORI 1963
Grit & Character
Like I mentioned few weeks ago, Muzz should be primarily used as a pp specialist and Ellerby for pk mostly. Personally, I don't think either are nearly as bad as some of you are saying, but this IS the playoffs, and I don't want them learning from their mistakes here.
