Jake Muzzin't Play.

[agentfouser]

as a 5 man unit LA hasn't been as strong as STL has been through most of the series. the Blues are often times out hustling LA and they are maintaining 5 man gap coverage better than LA. the Kings have essentially reverted back into a shell because of this and made it easier for the Blues. LA continues to use the same two plays to exit the zone, STL as a result have tightened coverage and moved the 5 man coverage tighter up ice. LA is either up the line, or the pass to the curling C. STL has two forwards choking down these lanes. they are essentially smothering LA from the dots to the blue line. LA has to make re-directions and trust one another to make the backside pass to the weakside forward, not all the time but enough to get the Blues guessing. they need to stretch STL and not allow them to collapse the way they have.

This, exactly. The Blues are brilliant at outnumbering you at the puck, and they're bottling us up for so long because of their structure and pressure. The Kings were able to move the puck out along the boards in game four because they supported a little better in their own zone; I think the forwards were playing a little more deeply that game than they have in the other games, and it helped them get the puck out more consistently. Last night, they went back to trying to get the puck out up the middle too much, and St. Louis shut them down.

Numbers are here: http://www.jewelsfromthecrown.com/2013/5/8/4313252/mid-series-scoring-chance-review-kings-vs-blues

Muzzin and Ellerby are the most visible victims of this. In fact, Ellbery is acutally MUCH worse than Muzzin, with a whopping -10 chance differential in only thirty minutes of even strength play. Muzzin is -3 with over fifty minutes played, though I believe those numbers are only through game four.

In any case, I think the problem is equal amounts Muzzin and Ellerby's inexperience and ineptness at moving the puck, combined with the Blues' really incredible pressure. Honestly, the Blues are a sight to behold. I cannot recall the last time I saw a team play with such a tight and effective structure, except perhaps the Blackhawks the year they won the Cup.

 

[kingsfan]

A coach is proven right because Muzzin touches the puck before 4 others did. Wow.

If Brown didnt block that Blues player than the puck would still have been in the Kings zone.

Incorrect. If Brown was in the proper support position he would have been where Muzzin threw the puck. Brown was beat there by the Blues player, and he's just lucky the Blues player basically whiffed on the puck.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

I brought up what actually happened. You brought up "what if". There's a difference.

This is not about " what if ". This about you telling us how proven right Sutter was once again because Muzzin touches the puck, to move it along the boards.

If he's not capable of doing that, than we can better quit.

 

[SLang]

This is not about " what if ". This about you telling us how proven right Sutter was once again because Muzzin touches the puck before 4 others did.

If he cant do that anymore, than we can better quit.

I defer to the guy who knows the game better than the two of us combined, that's all.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

I defer to the guy who knows the game better than the two of us combined, that's all.

yes, this forum can be closed. Agreed.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Voynov was just as shaky last season during the run, but Voynov had Willie Mitchell as a D partner to cover up for all his mistakes. Muzzin doesn't have that.

Still cringe every time Muzzin touches the puck.

 

[etherialone]

Muzzin is a rookie.

He makes allot of solid/smart plays. He is going to be a solid bottom pairing Dman. The problem is that his mistakes are significantly easier to see then his accomplishments. He also entered the playoffs without a full seasons worth of development time in the NHL.

I also lay allot of this at the feet of DS. Playing two rookies together is questionable at best on a contending blue line during the regular season and doing it during the playoffs is going to show the kind of results that we are seeing now.

One good thing that has come out of this is that anyone who had any doubts about AMART being a very good dman should be gone by now. He is as solid as they come and moving him would be a mistake.

Muzzin needs more time and to be paired with a solid SAH dman who can even out his mistakes. On the goal that was scored last night where Muzzin was beaten behind the net if you watch the entire play you will see Muzzin gets crosschecked hard from behind (I should just was crosschecked by a Blues player because they seem to only like to do cowardly/dirty crosschecking when they are at our backs) and he goes off balance as a result.

He regains his balance but by the time he does the player is no longer his responsibility. In our system the player who was responsible for the goal scorer was our RW. The responsibility shifts as the player moves from behind the net through the crease.

Muzzin has made his share of mistakes but then so has Scuderi and so has a few of our other players too. Muzzin should be our 7th dman during these playoffs but he isn't as bad as some of you are making him out to be. He is a rookie and again, the flukes are the Voynov's and Doughty's of the world. Muzzin is doing good for the amount of experience that he has.

He belongs with the team and isn't our worst dman.

 

[topliner967]

So any news on Greene? Is he still day-to-day? Is he skating at all?

On Muzzin: yeah, he's a liability out there right now, but I think he's improving.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

Incorrect. If Brown was in the proper support position he would have been where Muzzin threw the puck. Brown was beat there by the Blues player, and he's just lucky the Blues player basically whiffed on the puck.

Sutter said that we had 4 great defenseman last game, Doughty, Voynov, Scuds,RR.

I don't think he's giving benefit of doubt to Muzzin. Just because you are a rookie you shouldn't escape criticism. His mistakes are more glaring. It's not coverage issues which is something I'd understand. He's messing up on the basic fundamentals. He's a rookie but that's pretty bad for a rookie. His only upside is his puck handling in the offensive zone and his shot.

But I just want to wait for a year to see what he becomes.

 

[kingsholygrail]

He's just showing how much of a rookie he is. He's got potential for sure, but he's gonna get taken advantage of.

 

[Sheng Peng]

Put Muzzin at forward a la Burns haha.

Seriously, there's no clearly better option for Sutter. Ellerby is bad too, so pick your poison there. Greene is hurt.

Muzz did have an especially rough game last night, so I expect Sutter to take note of the kid's confidence before the game tomorrow, and make a decision accordingly. I'm guessing that we're going seven-deep.

 

[kingsfan]

Sutter said that we had 4 great defenseman last game, Doughty, Voynov, Scuds,RR.

I don't think he's giving benefit of doubt to Muzzin. Just because you are a rookie you shouldn't escape criticism. His mistakes are more glaring. It's not coverage issues which is something I'd understand. He's messing up on the basic fundamentals. He's a rookie but that's pretty bad for a rookie. His only upside is his puck handling in the offensive zone and his shot.

But I just want to wait for a year to see what he becomes.

I don't get what this has to do with the post of mine you quoted.

 

[Quattro]

Lets get this to DS and let him know we don't want any disappointment because of Muzzin.

Man, I laughed hard at this I was not aware we were in a direct advisory role to the Kings coaching staff

Why is this a separate thread? Plenty of current-whipping-boy-Muzzin bashing going on in the PGT.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

I don't get what this has to do with the post of mine you quoted.

My cellphone probably scrolled down automatically and I might of clicked your statement. My bad. HF drives my s3 crazy.

 

[no name]

I've broken my back defending Muzzin throughout the year. It's getting very hard to continue. The boy just is stumbling all over himself. Bad positioning, bad decisions and it's not being offset with any type of offense that made him successful midway through the season.

I'm not sour on him as a King but I hope this on the job training doesn't continue to hurt our chances to lift the cup.

 

[The Butcher]

I've learned to keep my stupid mouth shut when it comes to Darryl Sutter's decisions. Sometimes he seems crazy but I think he's a better strategic motivator than we give him credit for.

 

[etherialone]

Muzzin is having his rookie struggles but he is currently ranked 27th overall among all NHL dmen in the playoffs. Ahead of players like Hamonic, Bieksa and Bouwmiester to name a few.

He is tied for tops among rookie D with Brendan Smith in overall play too.

I understand that Muzzin needs time and still should be our 7thd but when you stack up his play among his actual peers he isn't doing as badly as some might think. Not advocating for him to be given more responsibility or anything like that, just saying that he is doing allot better than several more expereinced dmen.

In time Muzzin is going to be a very good player.

 

[Pucknut50]

Look, there's a reason Sutter has Muzzin in. He obviously feels that his offensive potential is greater than his defensive liability. He sat him for a good while last night after that St Louis goal. I was pissed, too.

Then in OT last night, Sutter was proven right, once again. Guess who the last D-man was who touched the puck before Voynov got his goal?

That's right:

No that would be Voynov

 

[kingsfan]

Muzzin is having his rookie struggles but he is currently ranked 27th overall among all NHL dmen in the playoffs. Ahead of players like Hamonic, Bieksa and Bouwmiester to name a few.

He is tied for tops among rookie D with Brendan Smith in overall play too.

I understand that Muzzin needs time and still should be our 7thd but when you stack up his play among his actual peers he isn't doing as badly as some might think. Not advocating for him to be given more responsibility or anything like that, just saying that he is doing allot better than several more expereinced dmen.

In time Muzzin is going to be a very good player.

I don't know where you got your rankings from TG, but I think even you'd have to admit that Bouw has been better in this series than Muzzin.

 

[etherialone]

I don't know where you got your rankings from TG, but I think even you'd have to admit that Bouw has been better in this series than Muzzin.

I do agree that Jbo has been better but he has made some big mistakes too. The rankings are from NHL.com and TSN.

Still, they are based on stats and they aren't perfect in determining who is having the better series. In Muzzin's case we are simply a much better team than the Blues when we want to be and that helps Jm in the stat department.

That said, Muzzin is having the best playoffs as a rookie so far and that says allot about his potential. He is a rookie and does make his mistakes but he is a good young player and we are lucky to have him on our team.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Muzzin simply isn't very bright between the ears. He struggled last season with the Monarchs. Sometimes he'd be their best defenseman, and sometimes he'd be their worst defenseman. He simply does not handle an aggressive fore check very well and his direct passes to teammates are easily read by opponents.

He is still trying to do things that worked at him in the past in lower levels. The kid makes the simple plays look like a great challenge. His mistakes are way too glaring. I don't buy the "he's a rookie" excuse. There are tons of rookies who go by unnoticed because they don't make as egregious errors as Muzzin does.

I can't recall the last time the Kings had a rookie defenseman make as many mistakes as Muzzin is prone to make. Jack Johnson used to recklessly run around the ice, but his issues were based on positioning more so than making a forced error or boneheaded play.

If they continue to ice Muzzin, they really need to protect him and limit the amount of touches he gets with the puck inside their own blueline. He needs to get the puck out quickly (which he was fortunately able to do on the sequence that led to the game winner).

 

[Puck U]

Man I love you back seat driver, Monday morning quarterback, arm chair GM's

... Muzzin sucks SIT him !
... Ellerby sucks send him to the ECHL !
... Scuderi has lost a step trade him !
... Regehr is slow trade him too !
... Kopitar hasn't scored in forever Bench him he has NO HEART !
... Brown sucks has no hockey IQ, trade him for a real player !
... Richards sucks, Booo ! Booo !
... Penner OMG he SUCKS, waive him before I dunno what ! but keep his twitter account THAT's gold !
... Stoll, he sucks, we'll call call him Stool, so funny HA HA !
... Sutter, playing 7 D-men ? what the hell is he thinking ? FIRE HIM !
... Lombardi, did he do enough at the Trade deadline ? FIRE HIM !
... AEG, those cheap A-holes, SELL THE TEAM and MOVE to Canada !

I swear, if any of YOU were in charge, we NEVER ! would have WON a CUP ! Hell we might not HAVE A TEAM ? as you think everyone SUCKS ! LOL

CHILL OUT, enjoy the ride ... there's nothing YOU can do about it anyways !

 

[etherialone]

Muzzin simply isn't very bright between the ears. He struggled last season with the Monarchs. Sometimes he'd be their best defenseman, and sometimes he'd be their worst defenseman. He simply does not handle an aggressive fore check very well and his direct passes to teammates are easily read by opponents.

He is still trying to do things that worked at him in the past in lower levels. The kid makes the simple plays look like a great challenge. His mistakes are way too glaring. I don't buy the "he's a rookie" excuse. There are tons of rookies who go by unnoticed because they don't make as egregious errors as Muzzin does.

I can't recall the last time the Kings had a rookie defenseman make as many mistakes as Muzzin is prone to make. Jack Johnson used to recklessly run around the ice, but his issues were based on positioning more so than making a forced error or boneheaded play.

If they continue to ice Muzzin, they really need to protect him and limit the amount of touches he gets with the puck inside their own blueline. He needs to get the puck out quickly (which he was fortunately able to do on the sequence that led to the game winner).

And yet Muzzins numbers are either better than or right there with the very elite of rookie dmen. I buy the rookie aspect because that is what he is, a rookie. He is never going to be more than a bottom pairing PMD who can hit some and will fight if needs be but he will be a good one. It takes time for some of the kids and Muzzin needs more time without a doubt but he is a very good young Dman.

Either that or the NHL is overloaded with rookie D who are significantly worse than Muzzin, even the ones the are supposed to be so danged good that they should have been considered for the Calder.

 

[KINGS17]

Muzzin simply isn't very bright between the ears. He struggled last season with the Monarchs. Sometimes he'd be their best defenseman, and sometimes he'd be their worst defenseman. He simply does not handle an aggressive fore check very well and his direct passes to teammates are easily read by opponents.

He is still trying to do things that worked at him in the past in lower levels. The kid makes the simple plays look like a great challenge. His mistakes are way too glaring. I don't buy the "he's a rookie" excuse. There are tons of rookies who go by unnoticed because they don't make as egregious errors as Muzzin does.

I can't recall the last time the Kings had a rookie defenseman make as many mistakes as Muzzin is prone to make. Jack Johnson used to recklessly run around the ice, but his issues were based on positioning more so than making a forced error or boneheaded play.

If they continue to ice Muzzin, they really need to protect him and limit the amount of touches he gets with the puck inside their own blueline. He needs to get the puck out quickly (which he was fortunately able to do on the sequence that led to the game winner).

Just to make it easy for you, instead of tons, name 10.

No doubt that Muzzin doesn't need to be out there when there is a faceoff in the Kings zone, and he hasn't been for the most part.

As TG has said he is holding his own given the amount of experience he has and the extent to which he is being used.

He needs to add some muscle and a lot of upper body strength, which will give him more confidence in the board battles and around the front of the net. A lot of times I think the kid makes a poor decision because he is so worried about getting knocked off the puck in his own zone that he rushes.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

And yet Muzzins numbers are either better than or right there with the very elite of rookie dmen. I buy the rookie aspect because that is what he is, a rookie. He is never going to be more than a bottom pairing PMD who can hit some and will fight if needs be but he will be a good one. It takes time for some of the kids and Muzzin needs more time without a doubt but he is a very good young Dman.

Either that or the NHL is overloaded with rookie D who are significantly worse than Muzzin, even the ones the are supposed to be so danged good that they should have been considered for the Calder.

You are talking about points (most of which came with the benefit of playing with Doughty). I'm talking about defense. Let's also not forget that Muzzin is a 24 year old rookie who has three years of pro hockey experience.

It's not like he's making the jump from juniors to the pros as a 20-21 year old. His play away from the puck should be better, and he shouldn't be muscled off of the puck as easily as he was last night behind his own net that resulted in the Blues goal.

Muzzin has to be protected away from the top players. That's why his ice time was very limited after he made such a critical error last night. He was also 17th among rookie defensemen in ice time.

The only role I see him fitting in next season (with a healthy Kings lineup) is as a 7th defensemen. I wouldn't dress him ahead of Martinez, and the Kings should be looking at bringing Regehr and Scuderi back.