TonySCV
Golden
Do you work for NHL.com? 
Muzzin's inexperienced. On the job training. Sutter's smartest move was dressing 7 D.
Muzzin's inexperienced. On the job training. Sutter's smartest move was dressing 7 D.
I rather play with 5 defenseman then have Ellerby/Muzzin play lol. I dont know can we just send them to greenland
This. I said earlier, our biggest issue this postseason is either, our Will or muzzin/ellerby.
^This. Rookie or not hes going to screw us over. Hes made too many major mistakes in this series and isnt thinking clearly.Muzzin just doesnt look comfortable out there and thats not helping the team. (Ellerby has at least seemed more comfortable after an awful first game and should be in if Greene cant go) Get the rookie outta there DS. He needs to be benched or he needs to have extremely sheltered minutes.
Everyone here thats making him the whipping boy knows hes a rookie but he shouldnt be making some of the mistakes hes making. Hes not helping the team, hes hurting them. He needs to be benched, the pressure is proving to be too much for him.
While a novel approach, you just can't waste your forwards like that and expect to go deep. Sutter was forced to go back to the 12 and 6 lineup because his forwards were wearing out.
Going 13 and 5 would probably mean two losses in the next two games and a quick exit from the playoffs.
We are stuck with Muzzin until Greene becomes healthy, if ever.
Going 13 and 5 would probably mean two losses in the next two games and a quick exit from the playoffs.
We are stuck with Muzzin until Greene becomes healthy, if ever.
kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
Kid is struggling, but it's not glaring, not to me anyways. I diddn't think he was bad last night. Wasn't great, but not bad.
I know we are in win now mode, and that does factor into all this, but so does the fact Drew Doughty played 29:21 last night BEFORE overtime started. We have to let someone log some minutes just so he can get a breather and like it or not, that is guys like Muzzin and Ellerby.
Don't forget he was pretty bad at the start of the season this year and was making terrible decisions with the puck seemingly ever second game. As the year went on, he progressed and got better. Now in the playoffs he's the rookie D-man and the other team is trying to pick on him at times to force mistakes, get in his head. This is something else he's going to have to learn to deal with and I think he will.
I know we are in win now mode, and that does factor into all this, but so does the fact Drew Doughty played 29:21 last night BEFORE overtime started. We have to let someone log some minutes just so he can get a breather and like it or not, that is guys like Muzzin and Ellerby.
Don't forget he was pretty bad at the start of the season this year and was making terrible decisions with the puck seemingly ever second game. As the year went on, he progressed and got better. Now in the playoffs he's the rookie D-man and the other team is trying to pick on him at times to force mistakes, get in his head. This is something else he's going to have to learn to deal with and I think he will.
Pucknut50
Registered User
- Jun 13, 2007
- 1,479
- 137
On the offensive end at least the opposition has to pay attention to Muzzin which allows a little more room for the forwards. Ellerby on the other hand gets no attention like Suds and the the players can pack it in on their side of the zone. Muzzin is also on PP1.
Whiskeypete
Registered User
his biggest gaffe last night was the turnover that lead to the 2nd STL goal. that was just awful. i was cussing him up also and pissed.
not singling you out KF, just wanted to call to attention a specific situation compared to all of our observations.
yes he is struggling, but we knew it was to be expected. DS is making due with what he has available to him. let's not forget that we also had struggles last spring with VV and AMart as they cut their teeth in the PO's. everyone learns at different speeds.
the speed and intensity of the playoffs ratchets up over the season. add to this STL's relentless up ice pressure and the kid is learning under very heavy pressure
Muzz, Ellerby, (insert next whipping boy here) aren't the sole reason for the amount of turnovers. how LA is playing out of their own zone has more to do with it. all of the guys are having this issue, not just Muzzerby
as a 5 man unit LA hasn't been as strong as STL has been through most of the series. the Blues are often times out hustling LA and they are maintaining 5 man gap coverage better than LA. the Kings have essentially reverted back into a shell because of this and made it easier for the Blues. LA continues to use the same two plays to exit the zone, STL as a result have tightened coverage and moved the 5 man coverage tighter up ice. LA is either up the line, or the pass to the curling C. STL has two forwards choking down these lanes. they are essentially smothering LA from the dots to the blue line. LA has to make re-directions and trust one another to make the backside pass to the weakside forward, not all the time but enough to get the Blues guessing. they need to stretch STL and not allow them to collapse the way they have.
Frolov 6'3
Unregistered User
I'm okay with a mistake here and there but Muffin takes it to another level.
I dont understand those people who keep defending him because he is rookie. This is no kindergarten. He's not very good along the boards and he's 6'3'', cant handle the puck, makes horrible passes in front of our own goal. On the PP, I'm scared to see him as well. He's willing to shoot the puck ( a wrister) with a ton of players right in front of him. No hockey sense.
He's horrible. I dont think Ellerby has been much better. Keep in mind Muzzin has played more minutes than Ellerby, more time to make mistakes.
I dont understand those people who keep defending him because he is rookie. This is no kindergarten. He's not very good along the boards and he's 6'3'', cant handle the puck, makes horrible passes in front of our own goal. On the PP, I'm scared to see him as well. He's willing to shoot the puck ( a wrister) with a ton of players right in front of him. No hockey sense.
He's horrible. I dont think Ellerby has been much better. Keep in mind Muzzin has played more minutes than Ellerby, more time to make mistakes.
Ollie Weeks
the sea does not dream of you
- Feb 28, 2008
- 13,295
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Either we dress 7 D or we go with last night's lineup. The thought of Ellerby playing the minutes Muzzin has been playing leaves me very unsettled.
We're stuck with one or the other, or both in limited doses. Either one of them improves their play or we grin and bear it.
We're stuck with one or the other, or both in limited doses. Either one of them improves their play or we grin and bear it.
kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
Who said it was kindergarten? But you can't expect a player to jump in and play like a veteran right away. Of course he will be defended to a degree because he's a rookie, he hasn't learned all the rigors and grind and nuances that come with being a NHL defenseman in the playoffs.
Voynov looked shaky at times last year too. Should we have benched him? Cut his shifts way back and let Drew Doughty play 35-40 minutes a game?
Muzzin makes some brain dead decisions with the puck around his net, I totally agree, but that's by far the biggest problem. He's not nearly as bad as you suggest, and I say that as someone whose long been a Muzzin detractor.
Sometimes I think to many fans on these boards expect everyone to step right in and be a stud like Kopitar and Doughty. The kid is fine and will get better as the playoffs move along. Especially once he can be paired with someone like Greene, who is strong along the boards and can cover better for Muzzin's weaker points.
Frolov 6'3
Unregistered User
How ironic. Now my question is, who says he should play like a veteran and steps right in and be a stud like Kopitar and Doughty ? You call me out because you think I exaggerate but at the same time you come up with this ?
Voynov wasnt nearly as bad as him and I certainly dont expect mistake free hockey from Muzzin (have you read my 1st sentence ?) but he's hurting this team. In 5 games he has made at least 6/7 passes to an opposing player in our own zone, sometimes even in front of our damn net ! You see that kind of stuff once in while but not on a regular base in 5 games from ONE player. And there's more to whine about.
He reminds me of Andrew Alberts when the Kings faced the Canucks three seasons ago. I now understand the feelings of the Canucks fans back then. We were all laughing and hoped he would get more minutes.
Edit: I do admit I feel bad about saying things like this because obviously he gives 110%.
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It's the forecheck. Voynov, as good as he is, is having issues with it too. I would say Ellerby has handled it the best out of our younger defensmen.
St. Louis is the only team that forechecks like mad, it's a rough matchup for young defensmen. If we make it to round 2, I expect our rookie defensmen to play just fine. I was screaming at Muzzin too after the 2nd goal, but credit needs to go to St. Louis here for forcing the issue.
St. Louis is the only team that forechecks like mad, it's a rough matchup for young defensmen. If we make it to round 2, I expect our rookie defensmen to play just fine. I was screaming at Muzzin too after the 2nd goal, but credit needs to go to St. Louis here for forcing the issue.
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
- Apr 6, 2006
- 32,564
- 11,711
Muzzin is going to play because the Kings don't have another option. Playing with 5 defensemen is a dumb idea.
Sutter will do his best to give Muzzin "protected" minutes. The kid is a rookie and he is learning and gaining valuable experience. Muzzin will be better next season as a result of this experience. I expect he will hit the weight room in the off season and gain some upper body strength so he can't be muscled off the puck so easily.
Some of you need to get over yourselves.
Sutter will do his best to give Muzzin "protected" minutes. The kid is a rookie and he is learning and gaining valuable experience. Muzzin will be better next season as a result of this experience. I expect he will hit the weight room in the off season and gain some upper body strength so he can't be muscled off the puck so easily.
Some of you need to get over yourselves.
Ollie Weeks
the sea does not dream of you
- Feb 28, 2008
- 13,295
- 2,616
Thats also a good point. You remove the Blues vicious forecheck from the equation, and Muzzin's play would improve markedly. Ellerby's game would stay more or less the same I suspect.
SLang
Registered User
Look, there's a reason Sutter has Muzzin in. He obviously feels that his offensive potential is greater than his defensive liability. He sat him for a good while last night after that St Louis goal. I was pissed, too.
Then in OT last night, Sutter was proven right, once again. Guess who the last D-man was who touched the puck before Voynov got his goal?
That's right:
Then in OT last night, Sutter was proven right, once again. Guess who the last D-man was who touched the puck before Voynov got his goal?
That's right:
kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
Where did I say you specifically expected that? Not to mention I didn't call you out because you exaggerate, I called you out because you are expecting to much from someone like Muzzin. Honestly, how many rookie defensemen step in an play great in their first playoff go around? Like I said, Voynov looked shaky at times last year, and he's damn near in Doughty's class. Muzzin is much more typical of a rookie defenseman than someone like Voynov.
And please, keep trying to twist my words. Where did I use or say, or even imply 'mistake free'?
And as I said, let's not ignore how he's helping the team as well. He has made some mistakes (I don't think it's been 6/7 bad passes, but I'm not going through all the games and counting either), but he's also had some nice plays too, and as I said, we have to play someone. We can't just bench Ellerby and Muzzin and roll with five defensemen. THAT's a mistake.
agentfouser
Playoffs?!?!
I think it was also an issue of having the last change at home versus on the road. At home, with seven defensemen, Sutter could tailor combinations to particular situations, and this allowed him to shield Muzzin and Ellerby from defensive zone starts or bad matchups. On the road, you don't have that ability. I think he went back to six defenders to put together three more-or-less general purpose pairs who would be more stable, less exposed to particular bad situations.
I wouldn't be surprised if he went back to seven for game six.
Frolov 6'3
Unregistered User
A coach is proven right because Muzzin touches the puck before 4 others did. Wow.Look, there's a reason Sutter has Muzzin in. He obviously feels that his offensive potential is greater than his defensive liability. He sat him for a good while last night after that St Louis goal. I was pissed, too.
Then in OT last night, Sutter was proven right, once again. Guess who the last D-man was who touched the puck before Voynov got his goal?
That's right:
If Brown didnt block that Blues player than the puck would still have been in the Kings zone.
SLang
Registered User
I brought up what actually happened. You brought up "what if". There's a difference.
