Value of: Jake Gardiner to Edmonton

[Notsince67]

How about last year?

I’m sure our goaltending performance this year had nothing to do with goals against and Jake Gardiner would sort that right out. (If you don’t want to look it up a defence corps consisting of the exact same players but with a healthy Sekera and Klefbom was better than Toronto’s in 16-17)

On his absolute best day he’s adequate defensively. Worst day? Can singlehandedly cost his team games .

Will be paid between 6-7 million/year in a year. Adequate?....maybe a bit better

 

[Hockeyholic]

He would be Schultz 2.0 in Edmonton. He'd be booed out of town.

He single handedly cost the Leafs game 7. I don't know how you bring a guy back after that.

 

[Notsince67]

Jake Mr. game 7 Gardiner.

Game 0 for every Edmonton player. Lets really put it in perspective.

 

[rockinghockey]

Lot of Edmonton fans seem to be clueless about Gardiner. He puts up better numbers/metrics than any defenceman on the Oilers.

That is fine but if he was a right shooting dman I would be interested in him but he is not.
We have 4 left shooting dmen already

 

[Leaf Fans]

The Oilers give up the better player and the higher pick?

You got it half right. 10 is a better pick than 25. Regardless of personal bias, a 50 point defencemen are quantifiably better than 35 point defencemen. For those into advanced stats The 27 year old is also objectively better too.

 

[Halla]

Kris Russell

Leafs get their defensive defenseman Oilers get some offense.

Before Leafs fans complain that that's far too low that's just what I'd offer because Oilers need rhd and I have zero interest in trading for rentals.

Gardiner is probably worth more elsewhere but there's no reason for Edmonton to make the kind of offers I'm sure Leafs fans are dreaming of.

wouldnt want kris russell for free. gardiner has his warts obviously but 50+ pt dmen that can run a PP arent exactly common. overpaid bottom pairing dman that absolutely get hemmed in their own zone are though unfortunately

 

[Brobust]

Clueless, no. Don’t want him? Definitely.

Right. Forgot that your team is absolutely stacked with point producing, analytically brilliant defensemen.

 

[Halla]

we need to stop moving gardiner for scraps because he had a bad game

Gardiner was one of the highest scoring dmen in the league after christmas, impressive considering he was getting 2nd unit PP time. He had a bad game. He played alongside a guy who wasnt half as good as he was expected to be.
Throw him next to Hainsey and give him 20mins a game and it will be fine.

 

[Halla]

Will be paid between 6-7 million/year in a year. Adequate?....maybe a bit better

no he wont. I'm betting 5.25-5.75 tops

 

[Brobust]

we need to stop moving gardiner for scraps because he had a bad game

Gardiner was one of the highest scoring dmen in the league after christmas, impressive considering he was getting 2nd unit PP time. He had a bad game. He played alongside a guy who wasnt half as good as he was expected to be.
Throw him next to Hainsey and give him 20mins a game and it will be fine.

This isn't moving Gardiner for scraps. If they can't sign him for financial reasons, it may be best to explore a trade now. Once the season starts, there is no way they can trade him because it would feel like you are hurting the playoffs chances and Toronto media would tear management apart.

 

[Halla]

This isn't moving Gardiner for scraps. If they can't sign him for financial reasons, it may be best to explore a trade now. Once the season starts, there is no way they can trade him because it would feel like you are hurting the playoffs chances and Toronto media would tear management apart.

so they trade him now and roll

rielly-hainsey
dermott-zaitsev
?? - carrick

looks like a recipe for disaster

the leafs arent a team that is gonna move a guy a year in advance to not lose him for nothing in UFA
good teams dont do that. Vegas and Washington wouldnt be in the finals if they had moved guys like carlson,perron,neal etc for picks/prospects

 

[Kelly]

It's hilarious what one bad period at the end of the season will do to a players value around here

I'd rather resign Gardiner, Leafs are in the market for good defenseman, and he is definitely one.

Edmonton and Toronto aren't good trading partners -- and honestly reading through this thread their fans don't seem to know much about our team and vice versa, less EDM/TOR threads the better imo.

 

[Notsince67]

no he wont. I'm betting 5.25-5.75 tops

If he has another year like he just did, his hit will get closer to Keith Yandle who is 31 years old. His current Cap hit is 6,350,000 but only because he sees a salary drop from $7.5 to $5.25 from age 33 to 36. I didn't say 7.5...I said between 6-7. Please provide the comparables players you are looking at.

 

[Brobust]

so they trade him now and roll

rielly-hainsey
dermott-zaitsev
?? - carrick

looks like a recipe for disaster

the leafs arent a team that is gonna move a guy a year in advance to not lose him for nothing in UFA
good teams dont do that. Vegas and Washington wouldnt be in the finals if they had moved guys like carlson,perron,neal etc for picks/prospects

Firstly, I don't know why you assume that the thinking would be to trade Gardiner and just stand pat. That's not how an offseason works.

Second. The leafs are in a different place than teams like Tampa, Washington and even Winnipeg. Our three best forwards are 20-21 years old. Our best defenceman turned 24 this past season. The leafs window just opened and if you want them to be long term contenders then they need to be constantly thinking about the future and taking calculated risks. I think a Dermott promotion is a calculated risk that could lead to a long term benefit. I also think trading Gardiner would give the team multiple assets, which could either help in acquiring an RHD or to be used elsewhere.

Here's one final thought. If the leafs extend Gardiner, does that mean that Dermott is relegated to the 3rd pair for the next 7-8 years? Does that seem like a good use of talent for you? Or do you just think that Dermott doesn't deserve the opportunity?

 

[Brobust]

It's hilarious what one bad period at the end of the season will do to a players value around here

I'd rather resign Gardiner, Leafs are in the market for good defenseman, and he is definitely one.

Edmonton and Toronto aren't good trading partners -- and honestly reading through this thread their fans don't seem to know much about our team and vice versa, less EDM/TOR threads the better imo.

So Dermott's on the 3rd pair forever then.

 

[Kelly]

So Dermott's on the 3rd pair forever then.

Depth is good.

Also not forever -- maybe Jake takes a 5 year deal with us to win now, and stay in a city he enjoys.

I don't see how handing Dermott the 2nd pairing left side would do us any good tbh, if we can roll a pair with one of Gards/Rielly/Dermott on it I think that's a respectable D.

Trading Gardiner to make room for a player who has played like 30 career games is such a over the top leaf fan type of move, I really hope Dubas doesn't think that way.

 

[Brobust]

Depth is good.

And keeping a young player on the 3rd pair isn't good for their development.

How is that there's so much outrage when a skilled forward gets put on the 4th line, but none when contemplating the fact that a Gardiner extension puts a skilled defenceman on the 3rd pair for years.

It would be a huge waste of talent to have Dermott on the third pair for that long. The thing that makes it even worse is that since RHD talent is so hard to find, his third pair partner will most likely always be an anchor, pulling him down and probably hurting his trade value too.

 

[Kelly]

And keeping a young player on the 3rd pair isn't good for their development.

How is that there's so much outrage when a skilled forward gets put on the 4th line, but none when contemplating the fact that a Gardiner extension puts a skilled defenceman on the 3rd pair for years.

It would be a huge waste of talent to have Dermott on the third pair for that long. The thing that makes it even worse is that since RHD talent is so hard to find, his third pair partner will most likely always be an anchor, pulling him down and probably hurting his trade value too.

Edited my post above.

Here's an idea, let Dermott actually earn it over more than 30 games, and when that time comes explore trading Gardiner.

Or, keep all 3 and roll the D pairs somewhat evenly. We need to keep our good defenseman, because we don't have many of them. Plus when/if the time comes and Dermott is that good, he wouldn't be playing 3rd pairing minutes.

 

[Eggtimer]

as a neutral fan of both teams , I would not touch this deal from Edmonton’s side. Only way I’d move assets is if a OEL type D was miraculously available .

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Right. Forgot that your team is absolutely stacked with point producing, analytically brilliant defensemen.

We managed fine with

Klefbom-Larsson
Sekera-Russell
Nurse-Benning

In 16-17. A very good defensive team. Scored a lot of goals. Our powerplay was top ten, because - shockingly - our best offensive defenceman, Klefbom, could wire the puck on the powerplay without his shoulder feeling like it was full of ground glass

Klefbom and Sekera being hurt all year sunk us. Gardiner hasn’t exactly led the Leafs to glory, I’m sure we’ll find a way to get along without him.

Also, look above. Four of those guys are left handed. Why are we going to try to jump through hoops to fit Gardiner in for one season? Why are we giving up 10th for another lefty? Why is an 80 point team paying premium prices for a rental? It makes no sense at all.

 

[Halla]

If he has another year like he just did, his hit will get closer to Keith Yandle who is 31 years old. His current Cap hit is 6,350,000 but only because he sees a salary drop from $7.5 to $5.25 from age 33 to 36. I didn't say 7.5...I said between 6-7. Please provide the comparables players you are looking at.

a comparable of 2nd pairing offensive guys making 5.25-5.75?

Mike Green - 5.25mil (coming off a 45pt in 72 game season = 51/82 games)
Justin Schultz - 5.5 mil (coming off a 51pt season)
Torrey Krug - 5.25 (coming off a 51pt season)

please show me the comparables of guys making upwards of 7 mil

 

[Halla]

So Dermott's on the 3rd pair forever then.

Dermott can play the right side so there is that. a full year to adjust to the NHL will be good for him.
Dermott can move to the 2nd pair in 2019-2020 and Liljegren can jump up to the 3rd pair

 

[VainGretzky]

Chiarelli recently let it be known that he's looking for an offensive defenceman. What would Edmonton fans be willing to give up for Jake Gardiner?

 

[Fogelhund]

a comparable of 2nd pairing offensive guys making 5.25-5.75?

Mike Green - 5.25mil (coming off a 45pt in 72 game season = 51/82 games)
Justin Schultz - 5.5 mil (coming off a 51pt season)
Torrey Krug - 5.25 (coming off a 51pt season)

please show me the comparables of guys making upwards of 7 mil

Mike Green - $5.25 million - Cap maximum, 56.7 million - 9.25% of cap
Justin Schultz 0 $5.5 mil - Cap maximum $75 million - 7.3%
Torrey Krug - $5.25 million - Cap maxium $73 million - 7.2%

Average of YOUR three comparables, 7.9% of cap.

2018-19 Cap expected to be, $80 mil

7.9% of $80 mil is $6.32 mil.

 

[Notsince67]

a comparable of 2nd pairing offensive guys making 5.25-5.75?

Mike Green - 5.25mil (coming off a 45pt in 72 game season = 51/82 games)
Justin Schultz - 5.5 mil (coming off a 51pt season)
Torrey Krug - 5.25 (coming off a 51pt season)

please show me the comparables of guys making upwards of 7 mil

Mike Green at 6MM signed July 1, 2015
Justin Schultz had 1 season of 51 pts. Prior to that was a bit lackluster
Tory Krug signed June 30, 2016 coming off an average of 36 pts per season