Player Discussion Jake "Big Tuna" Virtanen | XVII Nikolaj Who...?

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F A N

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Aug 12, 2005
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Do you really think having your captain call out your work ethic publicly is a sign of getting along with veterans?

I don't see it necessarily as a sign of not getting along. Having a teammate who you think isn't putting in maximum effort can be frustrating but it doesn't necessarily mean you don't get along with the guy, especially if it's a kid who simply needs to learn what it takes to be a professional. The Sedins in the past have invited guys to train with them over the summer and that is treated as a teaching event.

There's been some shocking public comments lately for some reason (e.g. Sutter's comments about Goldy this year). Usually that doesn't happen and it doesn't get reported. I'm not sure if they have actually taken the time to give the rookie a talk before going public. My point is, a 19 year old in his first professional season not knowing that even when the team is out of the playoffs there is still a level of professionalism and work ethic that he needs to exhibit is not that concerning to me. Had Virtanen talked back or confronted the Sedins about their comment then that's concerning. But that's not what happened. There are plenty of reported and unreported stories of veterans trying to teach a young guy respect, whether it's telling a player to keep their mouth shut or whatever. A veteran lecturing a rookie happens more often than we know. It usually just isn't made public.

So either McCann or Virtanen. And again, there were reports* that those two sort of formed their own clique/did their own thing, whereas Bo integrated with the veterans and essentially acted like he was a 20-year pro, not 20 years old.

Given Pedan's comments, it is more likely McCann. If we were to judge by photos posted off the ice, it appears Virtanen bonded with McCann and Hutton. Coincidentally they were rookies together. Bo? Not sure who his best friend on the team is, but when he goes home he goes home to his dog and girlfriend and goes for hikes and walks with his dog. Regardless, Bo is like the model hockey player in terms of character: considered mature beyond his years and future captain material.
 

iFan

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Horvat play what like 5 AHL games? The point is actually a good one, unlike yours. If you can't score in the AHL (over a reasonable number of games) then you're just not a good prospect and your chances of being a decent NHLer is slim to none.

lol whenever I need a good laugh I just come onto these forums
 

RobertKron

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iFan

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Do you really think having your captain call out your work ethic publicly is a sign of getting along with veterans?

There's also this:

http://www.vancourier.com/pass-it-t...-like-lonely-star-says-andrey-pedan-1.2266811



So either McCann or Virtanen. And again, there were reports* that those two sort of formed their own clique/did their own thing, whereas Bo integrated with the veterans and essentially acted like he was a 20-year pro, not 20 years old.

This is also speculation for the sake of discussion. You need more proof simply to continue this discussion which may or may not have merit? Where is the proof that he wasn't disrespectful to the veterans? Do you have pictures of Jake babysitting Ryan Miller's kid or taking Henrik out to a Whitecaps game?

*because you probably won't click the link, here is the quote:



Real good character stuff there.

Virtanen was a young kid, Benning and Linden should've known better than to put a young kid with Jakes cockiness in the NHL too soon. They should've delivered that humble pie to him than suit him up for the NHL and talk him up as the next star and use him to sell tickets. Jake seems to have settled down on his attitude and is taking training more seriously, which let's remember the Canucks were training Virtanen regularly over the last summer as he lives in Vancouver. No doubt Virtanen still has a lot of risk around him and could very well bust but many of the issues around him last year seem to have died down if not are completely gone. His development has took a hit some of it is on him, some of it on the Canucks trainers and probably the most of it is on Benning and Linden for hyping him up and feeding his ego as a teen when he clearly wasn't ready.
 

lawrence

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May 19, 2012
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It's doesn't work that way, he's a 19 year old kid that has faced some tough public adversity. No doubt, he avoids these boards and these posts because it would make any person feel like crap.

oh of course, media vs him, but dead beat forums like this? Heck no.
 

Mr. Canucklehead

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Virtanen's on-ice issues aside, I don't know that a 18/19/20 year old acting like an 18/19/20 year old is the damning indictment some here seem to think it is. It's that same sort of mentality that lead to Seguin being shipped from Boston to Dallas. Guys like Horvat are the exception, in my experience, not the rule, in that he has the emotional maturity of someone ten years older than he is. The majority of other young NHL prospects and players are not so wise beyond their years.

What's going to matter the most for Virtanen (and even McCann, in Florida) is that they show the abilities to learn and grow from their mistakes. If year after year they keep repeating the same bad habits both on the ice and off it, that's going to become an issue.
 

vancityluongo

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I don't see it necessarily as a sign of not getting along. Having a teammate who you think isn't putting in maximum effort can be frustrating but it doesn't necessarily mean you don't get along with the guy, especially if it's a kid who simply needs to learn what it takes to be a professional. The Sedins in the past have invited guys to train with them over the summer and that is treated as a teaching event.

There's been some shocking public comments lately for some reason (e.g. Sutter's comments about Goldy this year). Usually that doesn't happen and it doesn't get reported. I'm not sure if they have actually taken the time to give the rookie a talk before going public. My point is, a 19 year old in his first professional season not knowing that even when the team is out of the playoffs there is still a level of professionalism and work ethic that he needs to exhibit is not that concerning to me. Had Virtanen talked back or confronted the Sedins about their comment then that's concerning. But that's not what happened. There are plenty of reported and unreported stories of veterans trying to teach a young guy respect, whether it's telling a player to keep their mouth shut or whatever. A veteran lecturing a rookie happens more often than we know. It usually just isn't made public.

Virtanen talking back in any way would've been a one-way ticket out of town in the NHL. That can't possibly be the bar.

The Sedins are the ultimate professionals, and what you described is exactly why they're such an asset for this team even if their play declines. A kid like Taylor Hall, really, really could have used a Henrik Sedin to help him get on the right training regiment, etc. Which is why the public comments about Jake are so, so weird. It's absolutely out of character for the Sedins to give any sort of public opinion, let alone a controversial one calling out a teammate. Yet Jake still maintains how terrific the Sedins have been for him as mentors. In those articles on the last page, there are comments sprinkled throughout from Horvat, Hutton and others on how great they've been as mentors. If they were simply calling kids out in the media and not putting in huge amounts of personal time, there would be no reason for those young guys to be gushing.

Point is, I have enough faith in the Sedins demeanor to truly believe that for them to call a kid out in the media for his work ethic was 100% deserved.

Sutter is a ****ing idiot who has accomplished nothing in the league that gives him the right to make any disparaging comments about anyone, let alone about a kid who is probably more ballsy than he is. Certainly don't think that is representative of some sort of call out culture forming in the locker room.

Given Pedan's comments, it is more likely McCann. If we were to judge by photos posted off the ice, it appears Virtanen bonded with McCann and Hutton. Coincidentally they were rookies together. Bo? Not sure who his best friend on the team is, but when he goes home he goes home to his dog and girlfriend and goes for hikes and walks with his dog. Regardless, Bo is like the model hockey player in terms of character: considered mature beyond his years and future captain material.

Sure. Not every hockey player can/should have the personality and character of Bo Horvat. We're also talking about Jake as a professional, not a future potential captain, so the bar is certainly lower in that sense. And no 19 year old should be judged solely based on the company they keep. But being more like McCann (traded for alleged character problems) than Horvat, combined with the constant whispers of off-ice stuff (in a ridiculously tight lipped sport/league) makes it a valid discussion to wonder about if Jake is being held back by his own off-ice lifestyle.
 

rune74

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Oct 10, 2008
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I find it amusing that no one here "wants him to fail.", but are going out on some extremely long limbs to indicate he will fail.

I'm really hoping he comes out this year and really gets back into a grove...all reports from last year was he was doing the right things just wasn't translating to the score board.

I'm not in the habit of giving up on 20 year olds.
 

Rotting Corpse*

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I find it amusing that no one here "wants him to fail.", but are going out on some extremely long limbs to indicate he will fail.

I'm really hoping he comes out this year and really gets back into a grove...all reports from last year was he was doing the right things just wasn't translating to the score board.

I'm not in the habit of giving up on 20 year olds.

Yeah and I hope the Sedins put up 100 points each next season.

Talking about what you are hoping for does not make for very lively discussion. Nobody has suggested we give up on him in any meaningful way other than acknowledging he is on a bad trajectory.
 
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Gaunce4gm

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As much as I love me some Bo, if the league was only made up of Bo Horvat esque players it would be SOOOOO boring.

This league already hates anyone with personality so for that reason I'm glad we have the Goldobins, Virtanens, Huttons, Markstroms...


I mean Boeser and Horvat are great but they're pretty dull as people...
 

NoShowWilly

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Apr 4, 2010
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I find it amusing that no one here "wants him to fail.", but are going out on some extremely long limbs to indicate he will fail.

I'm really hoping he comes out this year and really gets back into a grove...all reports from last year was he was doing the right things just wasn't translating to the score board.

I'm not in the habit of giving up on 20 year olds.

want - have a desire to possess or do (something); wish for.

think - have a particular opinion, belief, or idea about someone or something.
 

DL44

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He's gonna be good this yr.

A driven, focused, fit, little more experienced, harder working version of the Virtanen we saw in 15-16 is a beastly thing.
 

AwesomeInTheory

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Virtanen was a young kid, Benning and Linden should've known better than to put a young kid with Jakes cockiness in the NHL too soon. They should've delivered that humble pie to him than suit him up for the NHL and talk him up as the next star and use him to sell tickets. Jake seems to have settled down on his attitude and is taking training more seriously, which let's remember the Canucks were training Virtanen regularly over the last summer as he lives in Vancouver. No doubt Virtanen still has a lot of risk around him and could very well bust but many of the issues around him last year seem to have died down if not are completely gone. His development has took a hit some of it is on him, some of it on the Canucks trainers and probably the most of it is on Benning and Linden for hyping him up and feeding his ego as a teen when he clearly wasn't ready.

"Virtanen is fine, Virtanen is fine, Virtanen is fine..."

tyJDm3s.jpg
 

AwesomeInTheory

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Makes comparisons to Virtanen and Gaunce.

Can't demonstrate where Virtanen was given similar ice time to Gaunce.

Accuses other people of going on 'extremely long limbs.'

Yeah, that's, uh, sensible.
 

rune74

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Oct 10, 2008
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Makes comparisons to Virtanen and Gaunce.

Can't demonstrate where Virtanen was given similar ice time to Gaunce.

Accuses other people of going on 'extremely long limbs.'

Yeah, that's, uh, sensible.

I wasn't trying to demonstrate that they were given similar ice time. I'm not a fan of Gaunce, many of you are...you have your reasons I guess.

I'm going to watch how things go this year, hopefully he starts finishing more like I said.
 

timw33

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No one wants him to fail. But all signs have pointed to him not succeeding to the level we expected.

This year is his last shot. If he has a repeat of last year, he shouldn't be given a QO. Needs to put up at least 20G 50P in the AHL to get back on track of maybe being a bottom 6 NHL winger.
 

Fatass

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No one wants him to fail. But all signs have pointed to him not succeeding to the level we expected.

This year is his last shot. If he has a repeat of last year, he shouldn't be given a QO. Needs to put up at least 20G 50P in the AHL to get back on track of maybe being a bottom 6 NHL winger.

Considering we haven't seen the kid actually at this weight (30 pounds lighter) and fit before, I say we are in for a shocker as to how effective he is. I'm thinking he scores 20+ and for the big club.
 

Mergatroidskittle

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Dec 26, 2015
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Yeah and I hope the Sedins put up 100 points each next season.

Talking about what you are hoping for does not make for very lively discussion. Nobody has suggested we give up on him in any meaningful way other than acknowledging he is on a bad trajectory.

As a casual poster I gotta say I agree totally with him. It's the posters who get so down on a 20 year old that keep me away from hfvan
 
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rune74

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Oct 10, 2008
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No one wants him to fail. But all signs have pointed to him not succeeding to the level we expected.

This year is his last shot. If he has a repeat of last year, he shouldn't be given a QO. Needs to put up at least 20G 50P in the AHL to get back on track of maybe being a bottom 6 NHL winger.

21 years old and at his last shot? Usually we hear that at the 23 year mark...
 

timw33

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Considering we haven't seen the kid actually at this weight (30 pounds lighter) and fit before, I say we are in for a shocker as to how effective he is. I'm thinking he scores 20+ and for the big club.

It's a pretty big negative that it's taken this prospect 3 years to get into shape.

Is him being fit going to make him stop floating around the ice disengaged from the play? Will it stop him from taking low % shots and give him more rounded hockey IQ? There's more at play than just his conditioning.
 

timw33

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21 years old and at his last shot? Usually we hear that at the 23 year mark...

You can't stock your prospect system full of projects who are trending downwards or just treading water. His season last year should be setting off a blaring klaxon alarmâ€â€this isn't good for a 6th overall pick, let alone a 6th round pick.

At some point, the sunk cost fallacy needs to be overcome and you need to give players with better chances of succeeding the time and attention that they need, and that means cutting deadweight. JV needs to show a huge improvement in the AHL this year, otherwise he's deadweight.
 

TruGr1t

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It's not hard to doubt a prospect that's virtually been trending downward since being drafted and is coming off his worst professional season. Even if he makes the NHL at this point it'd be a massive statistical anomaly if he translates into any type of offensive player.

You also can't argue his physical game pretty much vanished in Utica last year. Those are like the two major reasons he was drafted: "Physical, goal-scoring winger." Well he's clearly none of those things ... it's not hard to see why people don't see much upside left.
 
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