Jagr vs Forsberg

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Dark Metamorphosis said:
jagr won 4 straight art ross trophies and was far and away the best offensive player in the league during that time period.

Jagr is hugely talented, very big, and makes the plays that matter, ie putting the puck in the net. He is a bit like Mario in that regard. I've seen Mario make dead-angle shots into the net because he noticed there was a little opening there. Jagr comes to play with a similar mindset.

Jagr takes -alot- of shots during a game. In that respect he is a support player. He needs people to grind and muck the puck to him. Still, has modern hockey seen a better goalscorer? I don't think so.

Forsberg is also very talented, his stickwork is rather underappreciated. As Jagr, he is very fast. That is the strength of both Jagr and Forsberg, they are fast in traffic with excellent puck control. Jagr is hard to knock the puck off of because he has such a huge reach, and is a big man, whereas Forsberg is just very steady on his skates.

Both players has excellent ice-vision. Jagrs on-ice vision is quite underrated; because he is a winger and a shooter, he doesn't get the opportunity to use it much. Forsbergs on ice vision is amplified by the fact that he seeks the pass first.

Jagr need grinders and a playmaker to excel, while Forsberg needs a sniper and a grinder. Obviously, they are difficult to compare. It is often said Forsberg makes the players around him better, but again we are comparing different types of players; Jagr doesn't need to make others better, since he will score by himself from any half-opportunity. Forsberg doesn't seek to do it by himself.

Point production:

Forsbergs points were hurt due to the fact that for the most of his carreer he has had to share center ice-time with Joe Sakic. In Philly he is the premier centerman.

Jagr has always been the go-to winger, and after Mario left, the go-to man. He has always taken a huge amount of shots and gotten points out of it, due to his teammates has often looked to set him up.

Come playoffs, I think Forsberg can choose to be the better player because he is a center. He will have more impact on the game-flow than a winger because his talent is always used.

The things Jagr does alone becomes more difficult to perform come playoffs. Jagr is stuck on one wing and waiting for the puck for most of the time, whereas Forsberg can play a simple game and still be very effective only because he is a centerman.

I consider a talented centermen more valuable than a talented winger because he gets more involved with the play. That is why I'd choose Forsberg. Who can say what carreer Jagr would have had if he played center.

It is indeed a "pick your poison" poll. Both are fantastic awe-inspiring hockey players.
 
Rush5Collapse5 said:
um..

Jagr is a winger that scores goals...

Forsberg is a dominant two way center that controls the puck at will, at both ends of the ice, and plays 110% in the playoffs.

Not really much to debate.

Forsberg.. by far.

Jagr is one of the best playmakers of the past decade. After Lemieux retired, he led the league in assists three times, and would've led again in '00 had he not missed 19 games.
 
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I think John summed it up pretty darn well. Forsberg is the better player (and has been for the past 7-8 years, imo), but Jagr has clearly had the better career because of durability and offensive production. I'd still take Forsberg any day of the week if I knew he was going to be healthy, but I guess if Forsberg had been healthy throughout his entire career (and Lindros as well), we'd probably be talking about where they rank among the top 10 all time.
 
Jagr = a one dimensional shooting winger?????

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...maybe his rookie year.

As a Pens fan who watched Jagr for many years, to say he's one dimensional or a "shooting" winger is simply ridiculous. While I do think he's probably the best goal scorer of the last decade, His playmaking skills EXCEED his shooting abilities. He'll tell you the same. Also, Forsberg may be better defensively, but Jagr's not exactly inept in his own end, nor is he always lazy. He doesn't play defense because he doesn't need to. Ask his coaches what they want. The closer to the goal, the better.
 
I voted Jagr. Because I believe he has had a better career and has been terribly underrated lately (prior to this season where he once again dominates).

Also to annoy the guy who read the article about 12 GMS choosing Forsberg over Jagr.
 
Rush5Collapse5 said:
I posted it twice (because two missed it), and Jagr is a one dimensional player - hence why 12 of 15 GM's agree with me, and not you. Have a nice day.

It's an old adage that if you repeat something enough times with enough perceived authority, people will eventually believe you. It's clear that you're trying to test this theory.
 
I think Forsberg's defensive play is highly overrated. He's defensively responsible and adequate and plays physical at times, but make no mistake: Forsberg is first and foremost, an offensive player. He's no Michael Peca, Jere Lehtinen, or Kris Draper defensively. He's regarded as the most "complete," because his game as no weaknesses. But he will never be mistaken for a Selke winner.
 
Goldark said:
It's an old adage that if you repeat something enough times with enough perceived authority, people will eventually believe you. It's clear that you're trying to test this theory.

Yeah, because ultimately, I care lots if someone "believes" me on the Forsberg vs. Jagr debate.
 
Goldark said:
I think Forsberg's defensive play is highly overrated. He's defensively responsible and adequate and plays physical at times, but make no mistake: Forsberg is first and foremost, an offensive player. He's no Michael Peca, Jere Lehtinen, or Kris Draper defensively. He's regarded as the most "complete," because his game as no weaknesses. But he will never be mistaken for a Selke winner.

I believe the second year Lehtinen won that Trophy in 98-99 Forsberg was the runner up, when he had the most "takeaway's" in the league. :teach:
 
Rush5Collapse5 said:
Yeah, because ultimately, I care lots if someone "believes" me on the Forsberg vs. Jagr debate.


You obviously do. You've been a pretty gung-ho Forsberg supporter in this thread, countering every argument presented against you, repeating the "12 out of 15 GM's" fact countless times. Would have fooled most people into thinking that you cared.
 
DayWalk3r said:
I believe the second year Lehtinen won that Trophy in 98-99 Forsberg was the runner up, when he had the most "takeaway's" in the league. :teach:

I think Joe Sakic was also runner-up one year as well, his MVP season. You should realize that much of the voting is done for political reasons. Not that Sakic isn't defensively adequate, but hardly one of the top defensive forwards in the league.
 
In my opinion there's no contest really. Forsberg is the complete package and a proven winner in clutch situations. Jagr gets the limelight for most of the regular season, but if you want a cup, sign Peter "The Great".
I actually used to hate Forsberg during his first few NHL-years. Partly because he's a swede (I'm from Finland... LOL) and the way he played that irritated the heck out of the opponent. But after a few years there was no way trying to ignore the amazing talent this guy has. I became a fan and it doesn't even bother me when he plays against Finland. Generational players are a joy to watch. I cheered like the rest when Lemieux raised the World Cup Trophy last year, even though my team had just lost the most important game in their history.
 
Forsberg is injury prone, Jagr is a prima donna. Both tremendous players, but I will take the injury prone, yet the team player in Forsberg.
 
Goldark said:
You obviously do. You've been a pretty gung-ho Forsberg supporter in this thread, countering every argument presented against you, repeating the "12 out of 15 GM's" fact countless times. Would have fooled most people into thinking that you cared.

What do you think "ultimately" means?
 
Rush5Collapse5 said:
What do you think "ultimately" means?

Within the context of this thread, you've definitely shown you've cared and you're quite adament about that as well. But ultimately, family, friends, life, and wondering whether the sun will come up tomorrow are more important things if that's what you're alluding to. :sarcasm:
 
Goldark said:
Within the context of this thread, you've definitely shown you've cared and you're quite adament about that as well. But ultimately, family, friends, life, and wondering whether the sun will come up tomorrow are more important things if that's what you're alluding to. :sarcasm:

The "the context of this thread" wouldn't be significantly relevant to this debate in the scope of NHL fan/professional opinion.

After all, 12 out of 15 GM's...
 
Are we forgetting the Jagr of Washington?
There is no comparison here, Foppa brings it every game, while Jagr
plays for money and money alone. These 2 shouldn't even be in the same poll, replace Jagr with Sakic please.
 
Teezax said:
Are we forgetting the Jagr of Washington?
There is no comparison here, Foppa brings it every game, while Jagr
plays for money and money alone. These 2 shouldn't even be in the same poll, replace Jagr with Sakic please.
To counter the Jagr of Washington I present the Forsberg of '01-'02. :teach:
 
norrisnick said:
To counter the Jagr of Washington I present the Forsberg of '01-'02. :teach:

I agree, because even though Forsberg didnt play the whole season,
he still did better than Jagr.
Oh and to all those choosing Jagr on their team at 8million+, i would still settle for Forsberg (better all around player) at 5.75 million.
 
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