Jagr vs Forsberg

[VanIslander]

Both great, each different, but...

Jagr was midway between the hockey gods (Mario, Gretz) and everyone else, up there in the stratosphere for years.

Forsberg has been a mere head and shoulders above others, and even then not long enough.

Who is more skilled overall? Forsberg. Who has had a better career and has been more dominant? Jagr.

The edge goes to JJ.

 

[RJ8812*]

Forsberg, he has a much better all around game, Jagr doesnt know how to play defence

 

[norrisnick]

It's not just about spending your career on a stacked team. It's about elevating your play from the regular season to the post-season. It doesn't matter if you're Peter Forsberg or Peter Ferraro. When it comes to playoff time, you're expected to take your play to the next level. Watch Forsberg in the playoffs. Better yet, watch him in the 2002 playoffs. You'll love what you see. Skill. Savvy. Physical play. Carrying a team on his back. That is likely the best I've seen a forward play on a team that didn't reach the Cup final since Neely in 1991 or Gilmour in 1994.

To say one player is head and shoulders over the other is erroneous. They're both going to the HHOF. They're both top 50 all-time players. To say that Jagr is a goal scoring winger is also erroneous. He has more assists than goals every year of his career, and while I'm not a big believer in statistics, this is one you can't ignore.

As stated before, I'll take Forsberg. The fact that I would want him in a Game 7 more than Jagr is the clincher. (Although if I can have both, that's even better).

Most dominant forward in those playoffs? Fedorov. Now THAT is a two-way talent.

 

[SammyTheBull]

From what I have gathered from the name Forsberg (fôrs-īs'bûrg')

force (fôrs, fōrs)

1. The capacity to do work or cause physical change; energy, strength, or active power: the force of an explosion.

2. a. Power made operative against resistance; exertion: use force in driving a nail.
b. The use of physical power or violence to compel or restrain: a confession obtained by force.

3. a. Intellectual power or vigor, especially as conveyed in writing or speech.
Moral strength.
b. A capacity for affecting the mind or behavior; efficacy: the force of logical argumentation.
c. One that possesses such capacity: the forces of evil.

ice·berg (īs'bûrg')

1. A massive floating body of ice broken away from a glacier. Only about 10 percent of its mass is above the surface of the water.


Any future threads comparing Forsberg to a current NHL player should reference this post for validation on why he is the greatest player ever and possibly the greatest human ever.

 

[norrisnick]

From what I have gathered from the name Forsberg (fôrs-īs'bûrg')

force (fôrs, fōrs)

1. The capacity to do work or cause physical change; energy, strength, or active power: the force of an explosion.

2. a. Power made operative against resistance; exertion: use force in driving a nail.
b. The use of physical power or violence to compel or restrain: a confession obtained by force.

3. a. Intellectual power or vigor, especially as conveyed in writing or speech.
Moral strength.
b. A capacity for affecting the mind or behavior; efficacy: the force of logical argumentation.
c. One that possesses such capacity: the forces of evil.

ice·berg (īs'bûrg')

1. A massive floating body of ice broken away from a glacier. Only about 10 percent of its mass is above the surface of the water.


Any future threads comparing Forsberg to a current NHL player should reference this post for validation on why he is the greatest player ever and possibly the greatest human ever.

For the win.

 

[BloodOnTheIce]

this is the stupidest pissing match I have ever seen.

you know what i would do if i had to choose one to start my team

flip a fringing coin.

either way, my chances of winning a cup are the same

 

[arrbez]

I'll never quite understand the infatuation with the one dimensional shooting winger, over the dominant two-way center instrumental in so much playoff success. It's not like Foppa doesn't "dazzle" either - Foppa's puck control and stickhandling is better than Jagr's, so that argument doesn't work. That unmatched puck control coupled with Forsberg's ability to take the puck away from the leagues best forwards, and then beat the leagues best defenders, is revealing of a virtual one man army with the ability to dictate the games outcome.

What are you basing this on though? You obviously have very fond memories of Forsberg, but you completely overlook Jagr's accomplishments time and time again.

Jagr only shot? He's recorded more assists in a season than Forsberg has. He totalled more than 50 goals twice, and yet has 5 scoring titles. How did this happen? Who was this magical centre that was setting him up during his Art Ross years, and yet recording no points of his own?

You make it sound as if all Jagr did was float around, score a few goals, and dissapear in the playoffs.

The guy has two Pearson trophies, which may be the most telling stat of all as far as awards go (other than the Smyth, which neither player has). Twice Jagr was voted to be the best player in the world by his peers. Does this sound like a one dimensional guy who just shoots all the time?

If you want your arguments to be taken seriously, you need to at least give credit where it's due.

 

[pumpy tudors]

Forsberg cant stay healthy, and never could. Jagr is impossible to take the puck off of, he scores like a machine, makes players around him that much better, and carries a team without any help really to first place in the standings and leads the league in points currently, with limited help.
I'd like to see anyone lead the league in points while keeping them in first place, the way jagr has done. Forsberg couldnt, he cant play more then half a season.
Too fragile, therefore he should learn to not be so physical, he cant really handle it.

Jagr with the puck, is amazing.

Jagr wins this, no comparison. Really only Mario in his prime was better in the past decade.

Jagr hasn't exactly been the picture of good health in the past 3-4 years, has he? I was surprised to see that Forsberg actually averages more points per game both in the regular season and the playoffs than his royal mullett.

For those Cup years in P'burgh, JJ was awsome, but to me , he has morphed into a one way player. Great fantasy hockey player, but I would take PF for the career, a game 7 or today.

 

[Daily Special]

What are you basing this on though? You obviously have very fond memories of Forsberg, but you completely overlook Jagr's accomplishments time and time again.

Jagr only shot? He's recorded more assists in a season than Forsberg has. He totalled more than 50 goals twice, and yet has 5 scoring titles. How did this happen? Who was this magical centre that was setting him up during his Art Ross years, and yet recording no points of his own?

You make it sound as if all Jagr did was float around, score a few goals, and dissapear in the playoffs.

The guy has two Pearson trophies, which may be the most telling stat of all as far as awards go (other than the Smyth, which neither player has). Twice Jagr was voted to be the best player in the world by his peers. Does this sound like a one dimensional guy who just shoots all the time?

If you want your arguments to be taken seriously, you need to at least give credit where it's due.

He's all offense. Anything else and I'm lying. I'm sorry I wont lie for Jagr. One dimensional. End of story.

..And what was he doing in Washington those three seasons while Forsberg kept dominating? He went to sleep for the Caps. Forsberg never went to sleep.

 

[DayWalk3r]

Forsberg Named the World's Best

Flyers center Peter Forsberg has been named the World Hockey Player of the Year according to Pro Hockey, a National Hockey League publication based in Europe.

http://www.philadelphiaflyers.com/pressbox/archive/2333.asp

 

[NewGuy]

He's all offense. Anything else and I'm lying. I'm sorry I wont lie for Jagr. One dimensional. End of story.

When you can create and finish as many offensive plays as Jagr who cares if you're not a Selke candidate too. There's five other guys on the ice to help stop the other team. The obsession with phenomenal offensive talents playing phenomenal defence too is ridiculous.

 

[Daily Special]

The obsession with phenomenal offensive talents playing phenomenal defence too is ridiculous.

I'm sorry, what is your reasoning again?

Why is it "ridiculous" to prefer an offensive juggernaut with remarkable defensive ability, over just the offensive juggernaut?

 

[barfy2000]

Forsberg Named the World's Best



http://www.philadelphiaflyers.com/pressbox/archive/2333.asp

its interesting that he won that. considering the fact that he missed a large portion of the year due to injury did he not? and only played one playoff game?

forsbergs 2004/05 + 2005/06 Stats:

Regular Season:
GP 56
Goals 23 GPG = .410
Assists 58 APG = 1.035
Points 81 PPG = 1.446

Playoffs:
GP 1
Goals 0
Assists 0
Points 0


whereas jagrs 2004/05 + 2005/06:

Regular Season:
GP 82
Goals 50 GPG = .609
Assists 67 APG = .817
Points 117 PPG = 1.426

Playoffs:
GP 11
Goals 4 GPG = .363
Assists 9 APG = .818
Points 13 PPG = 1.181


i dont see how one could vote forsberg over guys like zetterberg or jagr who played a lot more...and thats not even considering the fact that Jagr won a world championship...

 

[Daily Special]

i dont see how one could vote forsberg over guys like zetterberg or jagr who played a lot more...and thats not even considering the fact that Jagr won a world championship...

Maybe because his game is one dimensional?

Maybe because he went MIA in Washington for three seasons?

Dunno, just a guess..

 

[Birko19]

I don't understand how Forsberg is ahead of Jagr in this poll, this must be some kind of a joke, I think in 20 years from now if people were to hold this poll again Jagr would easily win.

There's no doubt that Forsberg is a world class player and he is more complete then Jagr, but Jagr is the ultimate offensive player and I say he's a step below the all-time greats, I also believe that once he retires he'll go down as the greatest European forward of all-time to play in the NHL.

 

[barfy2000]

Maybe because his game is one dimensional?

Maybe because he went MIA in Washington for three seasons?

Dunno, just a guess..

it was a vote for best player of the year. forsberg didnt do anything close to what a few other players did last year in europe...

 

[Master Kush]

I'll never quite understand the infatuation with the one dimensional shooting winger, over the dominant two-way center instrumental in so much playoff success. It's not like Foppa doesn't "dazzle" either - Foppa's puck control and stickhandling is better than Jagr's, so that argument doesn't work. That unmatched puck control coupled with Forsberg's ability to take the puck away from the leagues best forwards, and then beat the leagues best defenders, is revealing of a virtual one man army with the ability to dictate the games outcome.

In terms of value, It's easy to see what those NHL GM's were thinking choosing Forsberg over the other forwards.

Hold on here, not only does your constant repeating of your (rather weak) arguments make your bias any more evident, you go on and say that forsberg is a better stickhandler than Jagr. This thread shows you what most ppl think of that.

Another thing, you keep talking about Forsberg's 2way play, and that it is the deciding factor in him being better. So, I guess Forsberg is better than both Lemieux and Gretzky too, right? Considering they were both about equal or probably even worse in D play compared to Jagr's..

To be honest, when games really matter, Jagr has shown he is every as bit a 2way player as Forsberg is. Just look at some playoff games in his Pitts days, or even just watch him play for the Czech's, and you'll see him being as dominant as any player can be...all over the ice.

 

[NewGuy]

I'm sorry, what is your reasoning again?

Why is it "ridiculous" to prefer an offensive juggernaut with remarkable defensive ability, over just the offensive juggernaut?

It's not ridiculous assuming that the offensive contribution is equal. In that case the defensive ability could be used to determine the preferable player.

What is ridiculous is the amount of weight put towards defensive play when discussing superstar offensive players. Defensive play just doesn't have to be as large a part of their game as players who have less offensive talent. Superstar offensive players can prevent the other team from scoring by controlling the play and the puck. They don't always have to be the best player without the puck when they usually they have the puck.

I feel Jagr's offensive game is superior to Forsberg's to the extent that Forsberg's defensive game does not make up the difference. Hence I prefer Jagr over Forsberg.

 

[arrbez]

He's all offense. Anything else and I'm lying. I'm sorry I wont lie for Jagr. One dimensional. End of story.

So? Lemieux was all offence. Gretzky was all offence. Lafontaine, Hull, Lafleur (sorry Chooch) were all offence. It doesn't matter. When you're good enough to be the most dominant offensive force of your time, you don't need to be top notch defensively. It's a bad argument. It's like saying Mike Peca is better than Bob Gainey because Peca could score, or that Rick DiPietro is better than Dominik Hasek because he can play the puck better. It doesn't matter.

..And what was he doing in Washington those three seasons while Forsberg kept dominating? He went to sleep for the Caps. Forsberg never went to sleep.

Yeah, but we're talking about each player at their peak, are we not? Jagr sulked for 2.5 season, Forsberg gets himself injured seemingly every year. Both have thier downsides recently, but I'm kinda imagining a later 90's Jagr and an early 2000's Forsberg

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Forsberg may possibly be the best player of all time. gretzky and mario were one dimensional. forsberg is so physical and plays great defense. if he doesn't deke you, he'll go right through you.

1)forsberg
2)gretzky
3)lemieux
4)orr
5)howe
.
.
50)jagr

top 5 all time probably looks something like that. jagr's in the top 50 somewhere.

 

[Daily Special]

I feel Jagr's offensive game is superior to Forsberg's to the extent that Forsberg's defensive game does not make up the difference. Hence I prefer Jagr over Forsberg.

12 of 15 NHL GM's chose Forsberg over Jagr if given the choice of their ideal forward to build a team around, because they felt his all around game was more valuable than the one dimension of Jagr's game.

NHL GM's knowledge >>> your knowledge..

 

[arrbez]

I hear 12 of 15 dentists prefer Crest over the competition

 

[Daily Special]

I hear 12 of 15 dentists prefer Crest over the competition

I hear 56.78% of the votes have gone for Forsberg in this poll.

 

[Kaizer]

I hear 56.78% of the votes have gone for Forsberg in this poll.

I hear 97.32% of such numbers are random

 

[Daily Special]

I hear 97.32% of such numbers are random

You're right, I guess the 12 of 15 NHL GM's voting for Forsberg will have to be the deciding #.