Prospect Info: Jacob Bernard-Docker (D) 3 year ELC signed

[Loach]

You think he wasnt a stud for years? You prove the point our fanbase and team has the memory and foresight of a fish

Pardon?

 

[Sensatauro]

There can be reasons. Zibby was not given up on, he was a solid 50 point player, but the team wanted to make the next step up. The following season Ottawa did get to within 1 goal of the Stanley Cup finals, to me thats a hockey trade.

Overall though I believe because Ottawa has largely been a non contender for 15 years now they have stockpiled younger players with better than average draft picks and not been trading them away for a shot at the cup (with an obvious few exceptions), there are simply more examples. Look at Vegas, they have traded the majority of the first round picks, Suzuki, Glass, Brannstrom, Krebs and Dean. They did not give up on those players, they just built to win a cup. And realistically other than Suzuki they obviously traded high on those players. If they hung onto them, they would not be near as a good a team and likely would be losing some to waivers or contract situations.

Also there is the familiarity aspect. Every teams fan probably think they are the worst at this because they do not know other teams fringe prospects that may have made it 6 years down the road.

I definitely disagree on Zib. As the team was not happy with him behind the scenes. I can't go into details here, as it be against the TOS, but lets just say management had some ego issues and I'll leave it at that.

Trading picks isn't the same as giving up on prospects. Vegas didn't give up on Stone, Ottawa gave up on Stone and sold low again because our management was less then stellar.

That said, of course as you get closer to being top tier you move quality prospects for some immediate help. That's the game. Look at who Vegas has dumped vs who they received. Night and day.

Vegas was ruthless and you need that to a degree. But the list of young guys we've given up vs the league is disproportionate. I fully expect that changing as we move forward as many issues that lead to so many terrible decisions is gone.

Part of this boards toxicity is also because our management has been shit. It bleeds out. That said, outside the leafs, our fanbase on these boards is considered the worst and that's because we're insanely negative on this board. Of course there are still some great posters here, just the percentage of good, positive fans, vs the negative nancies is very tilted.

This bump is just one example. In what world did the poster who bumped this need to do this? Literally none, but got to find away to channel that negativity in life somehow. Got to keep slinging that mud though. It's shameful.

JBD is going to be a very good bottom six D who will be able to fill in top 4 in a pinch as he grows. Nothing in his game shows he is plateauing, yet here we are on the board slamming him like he's terrible and a finished product. It's beyond lame.

I'll call it out, and happily take the backlash from the folks who are triggered because they know they're guilty.

Great chat. Have a great day

 

[Micklebot]

There's a difference between guys like Englund and Noeson, and JBD.

Englund and Noesen were not ready to contribute at the NHL level, so they bounced around. JBD is currently a 6/7 Dman at the NHL level. He's nothing special right now, but at 805k, you don't get anything special, you hope for replacement level or slightly better.

With JBD, we'll likely continue to develop him until someone in the system surpasses him, or we sign someone, and he gets pushed down the depth chart below that 8th D spot.

He'll be 24 next season, the same age as DeMelo was when SJ opted not to extend him his qualifying offer and anybody could have signed him. I don't think he's going to turn into as good of a player as DeMelo has, but there's nothing odd about how he's developed so far,

 

[jbeck5]

At the midpoint of the season I remember posting that I was disappointed that JBD just didn’t seem to have what it takes to be NHL player. Decision-making was too slow, too many pucks up the boards to an opponent waiting, etc.

I thought the last 25% of the season (or so) he was finally putting it together and looked like a serviceable bottom pair RHD, even if he found himself up the lineup at times due to injury. Probably a combination of the game slowing down for a bit and the Martin effect with better support in the forwards giving him outlet options more often than not. But he also looked more calm and composed with the puck and even showed some elusiveness at times, which wasn’t something I noticed before.

Gives me hope he will continue to progress to the level of a good third line D on a good team, so I’m not sure I would toss him yet (not that you suggested this). There are other areas that desperately need to be addressed, JBD will not cost extra $$.

I remember thinking at midpoint, we should probably waive him and try Lassi Thomson for a stretch just so we could say we have both 1st round picks a chance.

Now he's not at all what we needed haha but it couldn't have hurt.

 

[Micklebot]

I remember thinking at midpoint, we should probably waive him and try Lassi Thomson for a stretch just so we could say we have both 1st round picks a chance.

Now he's not at all what we needed haha but it couldn't have hurt.

Idk why we'd want to try Thomson at this point, he isn't even living up to what he's supposed to be in Belleville, how we would ever justify giving him a chance at this point while waiving the guy who's just plain been better is beyond me... Guénette, sure, maybe even Mantipalo, but guys need to earn their chances, and Lassi really hasn't done that imo.

 

[Icelevel]

There can be reasons. Zibby was not given up on, he was a solid 50 point player, but the team wanted to make the next step up. The following season Ottawa did get to within 1 goal of the Stanley Cup finals, to me thats a hockey trade.

Overall though I believe because Ottawa has largely been a non contender for 15 years now they have stockpiled younger players with better than average draft picks and not been trading them away for a shot at the cup (with an obvious few exceptions), there are simply more examples. Look at Vegas, they have traded the majority of the first round picks, Suzuki, Glass, Brannstrom, Krebs and Dean. They did not give up on those players, they just built to win a cup. And realistically other than Suzuki they obviously traded high on those players. If they hung onto them, they would not be near as a good a team and likely would be losing some to waivers or contract situations.

Also there is the familiarity aspect. Every teams fan probably think they are the worst at this because they do not know other teams fringe prospects that may have made it 6 years down the road.

Zibanejad was better than brassard in the playoffs. Post obsolete?
And just because you want to move a player doesn’t mean you throw him away for peanuts.
Zibanejad AND a 2nd for a soon to be washed up brassard.
Don’t make me post their points since the trade.

 

[ottawah]

Zibanejad was better than brassard in the playoffs. Post obsolete?
And just because you want to move a player doesn’t mean you throw him away for peanuts.
Zibanejad AND a 2nd for a soon to be washed up brassard.
Don’t make me post their points since the trade.

The whole point of the post was pointing out why we did not trade Zib because we thought he'd never be an NHL player. He already was a very effective NHL player, our number 1 center. That is entirely different than letting Noesen and Englund go.

 

[DueDiligence]

You think he wasnt a stud for years? You prove the point our fanbase and team has the memory and foresight of a fish

Good player certainly. Stud? Not at all.

 

[DueDiligence]

There's a difference between guys like Englund and Noeson, and JBD.

Englund and Noesen were not ready to contribute at the NHL level, so they bounced around. JBD is currently a 6/7 Dman at the NHL level. He's nothing special right now, but at 805k, you don't get anything special, you hope for replacement level or slightly better.

With JBD, we'll likely continue to develop him until someone in the system surpasses him, or we sign someone, and he gets pushed down the depth chart below that 8th D spot.

He'll be 24 next season, the same age as DeMelo was when SJ opted not to extend him his qualifying offer and anybody could have signed him. I don't think he's going to turn into as good of a player as DeMelo has, but there's nothing odd about how he's developed so far,

JBD is fine as a 6th or 7th Dman with what he is paid. But they need to find a solid RHD above him in order for JBD not to have to play in key minutes. Basically don't ask him to be 2nd pair shutdown guy when he's not capable to do so.

 

[Micklebot]

JBD is fine as a 6th or 7th Dman with what he is paid. But they need to find a solid RHD above him in order for JBD not to have to play in key minutes. Basically don't ask him to be 2nd pair shutdown guy when he's not capable to do so.

I mean, ya, pretty much everyone agrees our top priority is a RHD to play in the top 4. It's that our upgrading our goaltending, which is admittedly much more difficult to do

 

[DueDiligence]

I mean, ya, pretty much everyone agrees our top priority is a RHD to play in the top 4. It's that our upgrading our goaltending, which is admittedly much more difficult to do

If the Sens could get a capable RHD and quality goaltender combined with a proven coach I say they could be better than the Bruins.

 

[Xspyrit]

JBD was on waivers and no claimed him - not even San Jose

It doesn't mean much, a ton of players get put on waivers at that moment of the year, it is the best timing to get players to pass through waivers, the less risky moment of the season. I was surprised no one took him though. It's him they should have picked instead of Thomson

Jacob Markstrom, Martin St. Louis, Daniel Briere, Paul Byron, Michael Grabner, Nick Paul, Mike Hoffman, Chris Kunitz, Devan Dubnyk, Ray Whitney, Pat Falloon, Richard Panik, Ilya Bryzgalov, Craig Anderson, Chris Osgood, Thomas Hickey, Rich Peverley, Jason Pominville, Jussi Jokinen, Steve Sullivan, etc all guys that cleared waivers or were picked up on waivers

It is stupid and risky to waive young players to not waive BAD veterans though, just like when Dorion waived Balcers, Chlapik and Jaros (IIRC) to NOT waive Paquette, Anisimov and Galchenyuk lol (or any other bad vet, we had plenty)

I guess it was very important to RESPECT Galchenyuk as much as possible!

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I remember thinking at midpoint, we should probably waive him and try Lassi Thomson for a stretch just so we could say we have both 1st round picks a chance.

Now he's not at all what we needed haha but it couldn't have hurt.

Lassi is our 6th or 7th DMan in Belleville. He's been handily passed by Sebrango, Matinpalo and Kleven this year and was already behind Guenette and Larsson. Lost his spot on the PP, even when he is in the lineup. I would be kinda surprised to see him in NA next year.

 

[BondraTime]

Lassi is our 6th or 7th DMan in Belleville. He's been handily passed by Sebrango, Matinpalo and Kleven this year and was already behind Guenette and Larsson. Lost his spot on the PP, even when he is in the lineup. I would be kinda surprised to see him in NA next year.

He’s already signed in Finland isn’t he?

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

He’s already signed in Finland isn’t he?

Hmm, I haven't seen and not seeing anything on google, but very possible I missed something. Usually that type of stuff shows up in Euro sources long before hitting TSN

 

[Ice-Tray]

JBD has had a nice season for us this year. Sure he isn’t the guy to take the top for RD spot yet, or maybe ever, but he took steps and the UND coaching has him in the right spot for the most part. All he has to do is keep taking a few small steps forward in his game and he’ll be a guy like DeMelo who many wish we had been patient with.

We have seen JBD lay some big hits, and we have seen him fearlessly block a ton of shots. He’s got good positioning instincts as well.

He’s a guy that I absolutely need to see with the new coaching staff before considering giving up on him.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Pwople like to call players good 6/7s but not sure he’s that. He’s adequate. But if we want to start winning. Doesn’t bring enough

 

[Micklebot]

Pwople like to call players good 6/7s but not sure he’s that. He’s adequate. But if we want to start winning. Doesn’t bring enough

He's what you typically get for 805k, and is young enough that he's still developing. If an upgrade comes along, great, he's cheap enough to ride the bench and not worry about, if not, he's better than the alternative options we have.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

He's what you typically get for 805k, and is young enough that he's still developing. If an upgrade comes along, great, he's cheap enough to ride the bench and not worry about, if not, he's better than the alternative options we have.

I think there are better options at that price. He’s better than hamonic I won’t argue that.

 

[jbeck5]

Idk why we'd want to try Thomson at this point, he isn't even living up to what he's supposed to be in Belleville, how we would ever justify giving him a chance at this point while waiving the guy who's just plain been better is beyond me... Guénette, sure, maybe even Mantipalo, but guys need to earn their chances, and Lassi really hasn't done that imo.

I'm not saying he has. That was my thinking earlier in the year.

I was thinking "he put up 5 pints in 15 games in the NHL the other year...maybe if we give him 20 games he improves and gets like 8 points and then another team might move a mid round pick for him".

I just thought he might have held more league value than jbd because of his superior offensive ability.

Lassi is our 6th or 7th DMan in Belleville. He's been handily passed by Sebrango, Matinpalo and Kleven this year and was already behind Guenette and Larsson. Lost his spot on the PP, even when he is in the lineup. I would be kinda surprised to see him in NA next year.

As he should. His play has declined.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Da Beauty League ... JBD wowza

https://x.com/i/web/status/1811164739143356450

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

merge

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

merge

 

[HoweHullOrr]

There can be reasons. Zibby was not given up on, he was a solid 50 point player, but the team wanted to make the next step up. The following season Ottawa did get to within 1 goal of the Stanley Cup finals, to me thats a hockey trade.

Overall though I believe because Ottawa has largely been a non contender for 15 years now they have stockpiled younger players with better than average draft picks and not been trading them away for a shot at the cup (with an obvious few exceptions), there are simply more examples. Look at Vegas, they have traded the majority of the first round picks, Suzuki, Glass, Brannstrom, Krebs and Dean. They did not give up on those players, they just built to win a cup. And realistically other than Suzuki they obviously traded high on those players. If they hung onto them, they would not be near as a good a team and likely would be losing some to waivers or contract situations.

Also there is the familiarity aspect. Every teams fan probably think they are the worst at this because they do not know other teams fringe prospects that may have made it 6 years down the road.

They also knew that Zibanejad was going to get a significant raise on his next contract. A lot of the Senator moves over the years were financially motivated.

 

[thinkwild]

I can imagine an alternate past, or even a possible future, where a new owner comes in, able to take of advantage of tax situations available to new ownership, spends above the cap for a few years by back-loading and gives it a great shot. But then the team stagnates. The owner decides they will have to now spend a few years under the cap and rebuilding. We have the best defenseman in the league scheduled to get the best contract in the league and a top young centre about to get his 8 year top contract as well just as we start that rebuild.

A lot of people don’t like the idea of coldly tearing down to rebuild but good communications from honest and credible leadership can persuade the majority that this is the best way to get back to contending. So then we have an option. One last shot with these great young players pretty much in their prime? Or sell them now for max return, even if its not as great as we had fantasized it would be, and begin the rebuild immediately? I don’t think it will always be an easy choice.

But lying to the fans that you aren’t going to rebuild, and then do just that but not doing it the best way possible because you are trying to trick fans into buying tickets, should be a case study for owners of what not to do. I mean that didn’t work as well as Melnyk hoped im sure.