spintheblackcircle
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- Mar 1, 2002
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He's ahead of where Cam was at 20 years old.
I like him, think he will be a Brad Marchand, at a minimum.
I like him, think he will be a Brad Marchand, at a minimum.
Rumor: Jackets willing to move "every defenseman except Murray/Savard"
- Thread starter Samkow
- Start date
Pick that up others on the forums? After all we seem to be mentioning undersized players here.
Wasn't Cam in the middle of his 2nd 30 goal season at BC? Didn't Cam have 3 goals in 5 games that season too at the AHL level and follow that up with nearly 30 the next and then dropped 7 at the NHL level. This other kid has, what? 7 so far in 3/4 of an AHL season? Umm, yeah... Good comparison there.
As I said, hardly a sure thing but a good risk. Not as great a return as some are making it out to be. First rounder is fine, but it's a late first round. Not nearly as good as a 15-20. In most draft years it's value is kind of in-line with an early 2nd. Not much difference.
spintheblackcircle
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At the age of 20, Cam had 7 goals and 12 assists as a freshman in college. Leipsic has 7 goals and 28 assists playing against pros in the AHL.
Double-Shift Lasse
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If you think that (not necessarily all but any of these):
1) Golo might be ready to handle Tyutin's minutes, in particular if you think you might be able to resign Leopold or a similar veteran player for less money (than Tyutin).
2) Savard might be ready for Wisnieski's role.
3) Connauton might be ready for Johnson's minutes.
Then there are trades to be made of 1-2 of the established d-men, if you can get good value and pieces you think you can use to remake the blueline.
I'm not advocating any of these, and I have differing levels of belief that any of those make sense, but those are some scenarios I can see being looked at.
1) Golo might be ready to handle Tyutin's minutes, in particular if you think you might be able to resign Leopold or a similar veteran player for less money (than Tyutin).
2) Savard might be ready for Wisnieski's role.
3) Connauton might be ready for Johnson's minutes.
Then there are trades to be made of 1-2 of the established d-men, if you can get good value and pieces you think you can use to remake the blueline.
I'm not advocating any of these, and I have differing levels of belief that any of those make sense, but those are some scenarios I can see being looked at.
CBJWerenski8
Rest in Peace Johnny
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I don't think it's Connauton with JJ's minutes, I would have to believe it would be Murray.
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Fair enough. I was considering Murray to be handling Murray's minutes, if that makes sense.
niflheim
Hockey is cheating
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28-32 min sometimes?
Nomight be ready, because.. because they both need Murray
No + Captain America was real beast last playoff
Iron Balls McGinty
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Just my 2 cents.
1) THE CBJ keep holding on to Golo hoping he shows something but he only has 28 games to his credit and hasn't been able to get consistent ice time in this year's D. I find it hard to believe he's proven ready for anyone's minutes at this time.
2) I personally think Savard is more of a Jack Johnson replacement than a Wisniewski replacement.
3) I'm not completely sold on Connauton. Outside of a 1 month hot scoring streak he hasn't proven a ton. I don't know that he can ever match his scoring production during that time and is evidenced by his 0 goals in the last month. He might be a career 3rd pairing guy with a bit of offensive upside but nothing shows me is is prepared to take top 2 minutes, let along consistent top 4 minutes on a good defensive team.
BLONG7
Registered User
In today's NHL, Left-handed defencemen (LHD) and Right-handed defencemen (RHD) do not replace one another. That's like replacing a center with a winger - yes, not even comparable to a winger playing off-wing. Also, Savard already plays more than 20 minutes a game, so it's also unclear how he can replace somebody without himself being replaced - what we're really trying to do here is figure out who can play more minutes on a given side.
On the right, if Wiz would depart, his minutes would have to go to Savard, Golo, and Prout. If Wiz goes and no RHD comes back, you have to believe that all three of our guys can handle more responsibility, or you'd oppose shopping Wiz. Those three can't collectively handle 60 minutes, not to mention lacking the unique talents that Wiz brings.
I don't really know how serious the club is about shopping a defenceman, but if so I could imagine it would be JJ. He commands the highest price, and the left-side minutes could be split between Murray, Tyutin, Connauton, and Leopold/other veteran stopgap. Tyutin's minutes could even more easily be replaced if he went instead of JJ, but I don't imagine that he would bring much in return.
On the right, if Wiz would depart, his minutes would have to go to Savard, Golo, and Prout. If Wiz goes and no RHD comes back, you have to believe that all three of our guys can handle more responsibility, or you'd oppose shopping Wiz. Those three can't collectively handle 60 minutes, not to mention lacking the unique talents that Wiz brings.
I don't really know how serious the club is about shopping a defenceman, but if so I could imagine it would be JJ. He commands the highest price, and the left-side minutes could be split between Murray, Tyutin, Connauton, and Leopold/other veteran stopgap. Tyutin's minutes could even more easily be replaced if he went instead of JJ, but I don't imagine that he would bring much in return.
One year behind on my calculations - it was getting ready to start his sophomore year when he turned 20. You are really going to try and compare stats based on a guy that didn't play juniors and was in college to a guy that played in juniors (no way to compare stats).
All do respect to the mod, but that's just downright silly. He's a bit ahead because he's in the AHL instead of taking the college route. You can say that of everyone in that position. It's not fair and it's not right to even suggest it.
Oh and for the record he was 20 when he put up 30 goals in his sophomore year. He was born in Jun, not sure when the college season ends but it should be before the summer. He should have still been 19 at the end of his freshman year.
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spintheblackcircle
incoming!!!
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Yep, neither of our opinions matter one bit. I would recommend, however, in the future to not try and make comparisons to college players versus those kids that play up north in which their pre-pro career is much easier to follow. There isn't a direct way to compare. Generally they are going to be a little further ahead because they play more games; however that is no reason to make one player sound better than another. That difference won't last and won't make any difference in scouting.
There are a lot of factors that come into play and none of us (myself included) can judge their progress as a comparison.
It's far more likely, however, that the teams that judged the trade are looking at a former 3rd rounder that is undersized and, based on the scouting reports I've seen, isn't considered a sure fire top six. This kid, by all accounts, is a project.
I got a little defensive with your Atkinson statement because 30 goals as a sophomore in college is no easy feat. Doing that in back-to-back years is very impressive.
I don't care if you respond or not; just responding because it is pretty disrespectful for someone to respond with "not worth it". It's condescending and makes you sound like you are talking down to an idiot. I am many things, but I can assure you I am not an idiot. Either stick to your guns and debate it (which I respect from anyone) or admit you were hasty with your response.
The return for those rental players were decent, but an undersized 3rd round tweener isn't some huge boon. Maybe in 4 years or 5 years. He sure looks like a project.
Double-Shift Lasse
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Probably enough other places to discuss Cam Atkinson that we can leave it out if the "Jackets listening to offers for d-men" thread now.
Zarathustra
This is not my hat.
I don't understand the fascination with Ryan Murray. Bad knees have spelled bad news for prospects in the past, and he's had two major injuries in the past three seasons. People were talking about J. Moore a lot like they are about Murray, and Moore can hardly crack the top six on the NYR.
No matter how good someone is, they can't contribute to a team from the press box.
No matter how good someone is, they can't contribute to a team from the press box.
CBJWerenski8
Rest in Peace Johnny
- Jun 13, 2009
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Patrice Bergeron also suffered from injury problems in his first few seasons in the NHL, including missing an entire season. Should Boston have given up on him?
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Mayor Bee
Registered User
- Dec 29, 2008
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I don't remember anyone talking about Moore the way that they talk about Murray. The report on Moore was filled with high praise for his skating and ability to carry the puck but criticism for his defensive play, the report on Murray was filled with high praise for his intelligence and decision-making in addition to pretty much everything else. I think the only knock on Murray was that he didn't have a real physical presence, but he was described as someone who would engage if needed and could hold his own.
If someone offers something of value for our damaged goods in Murray, you make the trade. But i cant see anyone offering anything for someone who's only played 78 hockey games in the last 3 years due to injury
This club desperately needs a smart top pair defender like Murray was supposed to be (and still has a diminished chance to be). I think we have a better shot of getting that out of Murray than from anything we'd get in a trade for Murray. So I wouldn't trade him for what the imagined return would be.
In other words:
What do the Jackets need? A top pair defender.
Which of the young players on the team has that potential? Only Ryan Murray.
Solution? Don't trade Ryan Murray.
In other words:
What do the Jackets need? A top pair defender.
Which of the young players on the team has that potential? Only Ryan Murray.
Solution? Don't trade Ryan Murray.
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EspenK
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Good points about Murray, major.
The other thing that I think this discussion about trading D-men brings out is a problem we have in the forward corps as well, namely that we don't have sufficient depth to trade starting players because we have no organizational depth that is ready to step in and play in place of the traded player.
We trade Anisimov who takes his spot? Jenner? Then who takes his spot? We trade Johnson or Wiz who takes their spot? Murray or savard? Who takes their spot? Make the deal a 2 for 1 and the problem is exacerbated.
Couple of years from now we will be much better positioned but making trades now imo is dicey, especially if we trade away D. The only way around it is like someone mentioned in a previous post is t be extremely active (and successful) in signing replacements like Mike Green, Christian Erhoff, Paul Martin, etc as replacements.
The other thing that I think this discussion about trading D-men brings out is a problem we have in the forward corps as well, namely that we don't have sufficient depth to trade starting players because we have no organizational depth that is ready to step in and play in place of the traded player.
We trade Anisimov who takes his spot? Jenner? Then who takes his spot? We trade Johnson or Wiz who takes their spot? Murray or savard? Who takes their spot? Make the deal a 2 for 1 and the problem is exacerbated.
Couple of years from now we will be much better positioned but making trades now imo is dicey, especially if we trade away D. The only way around it is like someone mentioned in a previous post is t be extremely active (and successful) in signing replacements like Mike Green, Christian Erhoff, Paul Martin, etc as replacements.
There isn't anyone in Springfield currently that could take the position and fill in for the rest of the year. Goloubef does deserve a chance to get some decent ice time. Their aren't any NHL ready defenseman in juniors or in the AHL, so trading a couple defensmen means they have to go get someone in the free agency market.
On the left side we have Murray, JJ, Connauton, Tyutin, and currently Leopold. I don't think depth is a big issue if we move one of them.
This should help with the value of our defensemen.
Senators give Methot a 4 year/4.9 M AAV extension
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1834729
Senators give Methot a 4 year/4.9 M AAV extension
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1834729
