Rumor: Jackets willing to move "every defenseman except Murray/Savard"

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Here's my take and my opinion if I was a GM.

I'm not going to speculate because the statement was they were willing to "listen to offers" on all of those D.

Frankly, I'd listen to just about every offer presented to me in that sense of the term. It would be my right as a GM to say "no" or "ok, lets talk some more.

Even if a trade were to be made, I'm willing to bet only 1 major piece gets moved and it better be for a hell of a deal.

I don't recall the NTC for Wisniewski and its restrictions so I put him at a small chance of being moved.

Jack Johnson is expendable in my mind. As much as people say the +/- stat means nothing, he is a career -115. He has a decent contract but I think he is expendable from a production standpoint. Savard has similar point production, is younger and cheaper, and they both are similarly bad defensively. This makes JJ redundant. Even though Savard has had his lapses, as a whole I think he is better defensively than JJ.

Tyutin is solid. I don't see him moving. His point production pace is down but could be due to the situations he plays in. Its possible but it depends on the return coming back for him. I'd be willing to listen but they'd better be prepared to pay in order to get him.

I'm not really prepared to move Wisniewski. He producing offensively from the blue line and is not a defensive liability he once was if you take away the playoffs last year. I don't think he is as replaceable and guys who score from the blue line cost a lot of money and are hard to find. If he moves, it would be almost impossible to find a suitable replacement.

The rest of the blue line outside of Murray is expendable. Connauton may never reproduce his streak he had earlier so maybe they can sell high on him. He has 2 assists in his last 10 games and doesn't have a goal since January 14th. His 13.8% shooting percentage is definitely not sustainable.

But to sum it all up, I'm williing to listen to offers. It just doesn't mean I'm going to hear anything I like from other GM's

 

[JacketsDavid]

I don't think the Jackets want to gut the roster but we have a lot of guys under contract who have already played their best hockey. if we could move 1 (maybe 2) of those guys for the right price I think they have to consider it. Now if all those guys were 27 years old and in their prime no you hold them but if some team is desperate for a Wiz or a Tyutin (as examples) and will pay a nice return for them see what you can get.
I don't get the Savard thing - unless they just know he has a reasonable contract and they think he has a big upside.
I would hate to trade Jack, because I give JJ a lot of the credit for helping this franchise attract other players, but again for the right offer.
Murray makes sense because of his upside and since his value is pretty low (cming off all the injuries).

 

[Dr. Fire]

Being willing to listen to offers doesn't mean that JK is going to go on a trade spree. I would not be surprised if one of the guys goes at the deadline, and somewhat surprised if two go. But no more than that. Then after the season the team can look at possible trades for D men, or UFA pick-ups that help the team.

 

[Viqsi]

Exactly my thought when I first heard about this.

This rumor is likely just bull**** and was probably started by an 'insider' who has nothing better to do than try to stir up something.

The only D-men I can picture being traded are Leopold ( obviously ), Goloubef and maybe Prout ( but with the huge crush HCTR has on him I doubt it ).

I can almost guarantee no blockbuster Wiz/JJ deal will go down.
You don't trade away multiple core pieces unless you're in a rebuild.

...or if the market is such that you can get fantastic deals for guys who you were planning on moving in a year or three anyways.

"Listening" doesn't mean the same thing as shopping guys around. I'd be looking to see what folks are willing to give up too. I doubt we actually get anything high enough to cause such a major trade to happen, but who knows? Maybe somebody gets absurdly desperate and we walk away rich.

 

[Jackets16]

From Caley on the main board.

I'm fine with that. Our defensemen have been far from good this year, IMO.

 

[Dr. Fire]

...or if the market is such that you can get fantastic deals for guys who you were planning on moving in a year or three anyways.

"Listening" doesn't mean the same thing as shopping guys around. I'd be looking to see what folks are willing to give up too. I doubt we actually get anything high enough to cause such a major trade to happen, but who knows? Maybe somebody gets absurdly desperate and we walk away rich.

Exactly. JD and JK know teams are looking for D help, so why not throw a rumor out there that you are willing to listen to offers, and exactly who you "might" be willing to give up. Teams will give up alot if they think a guy can help them win the Cup.

 

[Jackets16]

Now that I think about it, don't know why Savard is protected. They should have taken offers on him as well. See if a team for whatever reason wants him and try to make them over pay. It doesn't hurt to listen to offers. No good offers, then just keep him. Also surprises me because Jarmo always said, "If Gretzky got traded then anyone can. I'm always looking for ways to make this team better." So maybe trading Savard for other assets makes the team better.

Clearing up a spot for Mike Reilly

Cost? Age? Likely return?

They obviously like something about him.

 

[Jackets16]

I could see replacing Tyutin and Wisniewski (who has value but is difficult to move on his contract) as being a sufficient "re-vamping" of our back-end. I think Johnson, Murray, and Savard work. The rest I could take or leave.

The reason to move Johnson, I have heard, may be more due to perceived return than his value to the team. If they think they can get a huge asset for Johnson, then they'd move him. Wiz the return needs to make sense but not be overly great due to his defensive liabilities and contract. Tyutin, I think, is going downhill and should be moved for a decent asset when possible. Prout is a bottom-pairing guy who will fight, so that holds some cache with fans but his value is kind of limited. Same goes for Goloubef and Connauton. Leopold can be had for anything.

In a year or two this would be a strong defensive core:
Murray - XXX
Johnson - Savard
XXX - XXX

Agreed. To me, Prout holds more value than some others, because he can do something no one else on our team can.

 

[Jackets16]

As much as I like them people and players I think this is the smart call, particularly with JJ and Tyutin. By the time our roster is ready for the cup these guys will be on the downside of their careers, particularly Tyutin. Making a move to upgrade the roster long term makes sense. This is particularly true given that Tyler Myers and Zach Bogosian have been traded, the market for Defensemen is very thin and trading one or two players at premium prices could help us upgrade the roster significantly either trough trade or the draft.

Agreed. It is all about value and asset management right now. If we can better value now than at another time, we should trade them. Also, I am not too worried about the return as it is about getting assets. We can always trade our assets later for what we need.

 

[Jackets16]

I'd argue that it could make perfect sense.
- If you're convinced that there is no officiating crackdown coming, and
- If you believe that the defensemen on the roster have peaked, and
- If you see a lot of guys around the league who can be targeted as UFAs who fit the idea of what the defense should look like next year, and
- If teams are willing to pay huge amounts in the trade market to get your guys,

then it makes perfect sense to blow up the entire unit. If you can get a first-rounder and a prospect for Wisniewski and then replace him with Mike Green or Lubomir Visnovsky as a UFA, then do it. If you think Tyutin is declining rapidly and you can get some great value for him and then replace him with Zbynek Michalek or Paul Martin, then do it. If someone will cough up big-time for Prout and you can replace him with Barret Jackman or Jan Hejda again, then do it.

It's possible to be extremely aggressive as the deadline approaches and completely reshape the defense fundamentally from top to bottom, and there's a good chance that it will drastically boost the team in the near future when all is said and done. There's also a good chance that the entire thing blows up and sets the franchise back by years, which would not only be devastating to the fans but ultra-devastating to everyone here who would have to still deal with me.

Good post.

 

[Jackets16]

I think this is exactly what they should be doing. Murray and Savard are both young, cost controlled, and proven top 4 defensemen. The rest are aging, expensive, at peak trade value, etc. I don't think moving Wiz or JJ is the best idea but a hefty price paid for them would help ease the pain. Connauton has been a nice waiver wire pick up but I could easily see us selling high on him. I wouldn't mind keeping him at all but you can't deny that his value is sky high in comparison to his waiver wire placement.

Exactly. It is all about value. If the value is high, you make a trade or two for the reasons you stated.

 

[EspenK]

One thing to keep in mind, and many here do not, is that at the deadline teams are not going to give up quality roster players to add to their rosters for the Cup chase. Just isn't going to happen. Maybe you can score a top prospect or a #1 pick but that is about it. Teams don't want to weaken their position at a crucial point in a season. In addition, cap considerations make some deals difficult at the deadline.

Bottom line is I don't see us moving a D-man, other than Leopold or possibly Golo, at the deadline for the reasons stated above. In the off season it is an entirely different situation and then I think offers should be considered.

 

[Jackets16]

One thing to keep in mind, and many here do not, is that at the deadline teams are not going to give up quality roster players to add to their rosters for the Cup chase. Just isn't going to happen. Maybe you can score a top prospect or a #1 pick but that is about it. Teams don't want to weaken their position at a crucial point in a season. In addition, cap considerations make some deals difficult at the deadline.

Bottom line is I don't see us moving a D-man, other than Leopold or possibly Golo, at the deadline for the reasons stated above. In the off season it is an entirely different situation and then I think offers should be considered.

No, but like I said before, you can trade for assets that you can then trade later for players. You shouldn't be worried about what you get back in trades (specifics). Just that you maximize value. That is, unless you really need something and you are making a trade to fill a specific need.

 

[Samkow]

No, but like I said before, you can trade for assets that you can then trade later for players. You shouldn't be worried about what you get back in trades (specifics). Just that you maximize value. That is, unless you really need something and you are making a trade to fill a specific need.

Yeah, we're not blowing it up. So if the value (in this case, a suitable replacement) isn't there, the move won't get made.

 

[db2011]

Here's my take and my opinion if I was a GM.

I'm not going to speculate because the statement was they were willing to "listen to offers" on all of those D.

Frankly, I'd listen to just about every offer presented to me in that sense of the term. It would be my right as a GM to say "no" or "ok, lets talk some more.

Even if a trade were to be made, I'm willing to bet only 1 major piece gets moved and it better be for a hell of a deal.

I don't recall the NTC for Wisniewski and its restrictions so I put him at a small chance of being moved.

Jack Johnson is expendable in my mind. As much as people say the +/- stat means nothing, he is a career -115. He has a decent contract but I think he is expendable from a production standpoint. Savard has similar point production, is younger and cheaper, and they both are similarly bad defensively. This makes JJ redundant. Even though Savard has had his lapses, as a whole I think he is better defensively than JJ.

Tyutin is solid. I don't see him moving. His point production pace is down but could be due to the situations he plays in. Its possible but it depends on the return coming back for him. I'd be willing to listen but they'd better be prepared to pay in order to get him.

I'm not really prepared to move Wisniewski. He producing offensively from the blue line and is not a defensive liability he once was if you take away the playoffs last year. I don't think he is as replaceable and guys who score from the blue line cost a lot of money and are hard to find. If he moves, it would be almost impossible to find a suitable replacement.

The rest of the blue line outside of Murray is expendable. Connauton may never reproduce his streak he had earlier so maybe they can sell high on him. He has 2 assists in his last 10 games and doesn't have a goal since January 14th. His 13.8% shooting percentage is definitely not sustainable.

But to sum it all up, I'm williing to listen to offers. It just doesn't mean I'm going to hear anything I like from other GM's

This is how I asess these guys, too, pretty much across the board. The one thing I'll say about Jack, he's pretty clutch. We get big goals from him when we need them so he seems like a guy who has the ability to step up.

But I like Tyutin, I'm not sure we can get value back for him that's more than what he provides the team. And Wiz, aside from what IBMcG has said, also deserves credit for what he's done attitude-wise, it seems to me. He signed as a FA here before Jack came over via trade and he's never gotten moody like JJ has. Plus he's always in the photos with other guys on the team, in goofy sweaters or whatever.

 

[db2011]

One thing to keep in mind, and many here do not, is that at the deadline teams are not going to give up quality roster players to add to their rosters for the Cup chase. Just isn't going to happen. Maybe you can score a top prospect or a #1 pick but that is about it. Teams don't want to weaken their position at a crucial point in a season. In addition, cap considerations make some deals difficult at the deadline.

Bottom line is I don't see us moving a D-man, other than Leopold or possibly Golo, at the deadline for the reasons stated above. In the off season it is an entirely different situation and then I think offers should be considered.

This is often true but by no means always true. Look at when we traded the Rangers to get Gaborik. Big trades can happen at the deadline. Not as often, but enough to make it plausible that there will be one this year, too

 

[Viqsi]

One thing to keep in mind, and many here do not, is that at the deadline teams are not going to give up quality roster players to add to their rosters for the Cup chase. Just isn't going to happen. Maybe you can score a top prospect or a #1 pick but that is about it. Teams don't want to weaken their position at a crucial point in a season. In addition, cap considerations make some deals difficult at the deadline.

Bottom line is I don't see us moving a D-man, other than Leopold or possibly Golo, at the deadline for the reasons stated above. In the off season it is an entirely different situation and then I think offers should be considered.

Concur, although I see no harm in looking around just to see if there's any crazies out there.

Still, for doing a good job of reiterating a point that often gets missed, you get a cookie.

 

[alphafox]

Wow, if a 1st plus Jokinen is the return for Franson and Santorelli I can't even guess at what the price would be for Tyutin or JJ.

 

[Fro]

the backend needs blown up...IMO...hopefully bring in 2/3 new guys that won't leave the goalies out to dry...

I can see us acquiring picks and prospects then flipping them around the draft for more established blue liners (one of which is hopefully Hanifan )

 

[blahblah]

Wow, if a 1st plus Jokinen is the return for Franson and Santorelli I can't even guess at what the price would be for Tyutin or JJ.

Seems like a poor return at first glace; but it's a bunch of UFA's. Can't really compare that to JJ or Tyutin.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Here are the CBJ rankings in goals against in the NHL over the past 3 seasons:

2014-15...............25th
2013-14...............12th
2012-13...............11th

This is with a Vezina-winning goalie. Other than Wiz, there aren't any consistent top offensive producers. I'm not aware of top dman prospects in the system.

A very middle-of-the-pack group. The CBJ don't have anything near a top defensive corps and I would hope that the GM would seek to improve it outside of the waiver wire whether that be by the deadline or in the off season.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Wow, if a 1st plus Jokinen is the return for Franson and Santorelli I can't even guess at what the price would be for Tyutin or JJ.

The prospect the Leafs also got was 2nd on the Preds AHL team and is only 20. Legit prospect.

 

[WannabeFinn]

The prospect the Leafs also got was 2nd on the Preds AHL team and is only 20. Legit prospect.

They got quite the return I think, but then again Nashville is probably the favorite to win it all right now. They're more willing to give up futures.

Still, a similar package (JJ+Arty? could be seen as a better yet similar package to Franson+Santorelli) from the CBJ could likely get a massive return.

 

[blahblah]

The prospect the Leafs also got was 2nd on the Preds AHL team and is only 20. Legit prospect.

Undersized tweener? This is hardly a safe bet or "Legit". Worth the risk to be sure, but he was hardly their #2 prospect. I assuming you mean 2nd in scoring maybe? We know quite well that AHL scoring, quite often, doesn't translate to the NHL level.

 

[blahblah]

They got quite the return I think, but then again Nashville is probably the favorite to win it all right now. They're more willing to give up futures.]

Favorite? No. They might be in Vegas because they are on pace for the Presidents; but this team has a lot to go through in the West with questionable playoff experience.