Player Discussion: Ivan Provorov

[SteelCityCannon]

It's some about Mateychuk but to me it's more about the overall makeup of the defense. Let me acknowledge first that Waddell seems not only open but maybe even advocating for Provorov's return. But as you all might be aware, my hang-up is that improvement has to come from somewhere, and to me Provy's spot is one that could stand improvement. And by that, in this specific case I mean a d-man with a different skill-set, a big, rangy guy who can move and who is focused on inhibiting scoring chances against. Yeah, there aren't that many obvious choices, but a handful have been named in here (mostly in the armchair GM thread).

I don't necessarily disagree, but if we could majorly improve one spot would it be Provorov, a high minutes high durability guy? Or would it be our right side currently considering of Severson, Guddy, and....?

I really think we'd regret letting Provorov walk.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I don't necessarily disagree, but if we could majorly improve one spot would it be Provorov, a high minutes high durability guy? Or would it be our right side currently considering of Severson, Guddy, and....?

I really think we'd regret letting Provorov walk.

Severson and Gudbranson are issues for sure. But they are also under contract. Which is not unworkable, just more complicated.

I think the Severson thing is going to be the most interesting thing for this off-season, at least of the things we know going in.

I don’t have an issue with Provy, only that he is a free agent and the team needs to upgrade the blueline.

 

[ViD]

Provorov’s main assets are durability and flexibility

He can give you 80 games a season at left or right side as a decent top 4 d man

Not good enough to be your #1D or PP1 QB, but extremely valuable when injuries hit

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Severson and Gudbranson are issues for sure. But they are also under contract. Which is not unworkable, just more complicated.

gudbranson isn't an issue provided that he has the proper role and partner.

problem is, that role (#3 RD) is the same as severson's ideal role, and his ideal partner (fleet-footed puck mover) is the opposite of what severson needs (steady stay-at-home).

i don't expect jordan harris to be back, but i will say, the third pair when he was with gudbranson was genuinely very good, as his mobility and playstyle covered for a lot of gudbranson's issues in a way that guys like provorov, christiansen and johnson have been unable to do over the last two years.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

gudbranson isn't an issue provided that he has the proper role and partner.

problem is, that role (#3 RD) is the same as severson's ideal role, and his ideal partner (fleet-footed puck mover) is the opposite of what severson needs (steady stay-at-home).

i don't expect jordan harris to be back, but i will say, the third pair when he was with gudbranson was genuinely very good, as his mobility and playstyle covered for a lot of gudbranson's issues in a way that guys like provorov, christiansen and johnson have been unable to do over the last two years.

Severson and Gudbranson are things that will have to have decisions made, is really what I meant. It was my way of agreeing with the poster that "improving on Provorov's slot" isn't a thing in a vacuum.

 

[ViD]

With the rising cap and the role with the team and organization, Gud’s contract is not that bad anymore.

Severson, on the other hand, is a disaster

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I repeatedly go back and forth on whether or not we should keep Provorov. I mostly lean to yes.

Hes a part of the room, he’s healthy, he’s prime aged, and plays a big role. He’d probably be the top D on the market if he got there.

Is he perfect? No. Should signing him get in the way of Fabbro? No. And no, Mateychuk shouldn’t have his growth stunted or held back by having him around either. If anything, this allows us to ease him in at the NHL level.

Tampa won a couple of cups with 3 excellent LHD (Hedman, McDonagh, Sergachev). While I do think the right side needs work, our potential left side is able to stand in there with most teams in the league.

 

[majormajor]

I repeatedly go back and forth on whether or not we should keep Provorov. I mostly lean to yes.

Hes a part of the room, he’s healthy, he’s prime aged, and plays a big role. He’d probably be the top D on the market if he got there.

Is he perfect? No. Should signing him get in the way of Fabbro? No. And no, Mateychuk shouldn’t have his growth stunted or held back by having him around either. If anything, this allows us to ease him in at the NHL level.

Tampa won a couple of cups with 3 excellent LHD (Hedman, McDonagh, Sergachev). While I do think the right side needs work, our potential left side is able to stand in there with most teams in the league.

The top D on the market is Gavrikov or Orlov if they make it. They're both better than Provorov.

I'm fine with having 3 LD of that caliber, as you mention it was the Tampa model. But none of them are actual shutdown types. Provorov is not that player. I'm only keeping him if I think he's going to get better at it, because right now he is pretty much average defensively.

Are you leaning towards keeping Provorov if it is a 7 year deal? Because I think that is what it would take. I'm adjusted to the idea of overpaying UFAs, but only for players who are solving our biggest problems, and he's not the solution defensively.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

The top D on the market is Gavrikov or Orlov if they make it. They're both better than Provorov.

I'm fine with having 3 LD of that caliber, as you mention it was the Tampa model. But none of them are actual shutdown types. Provorov is not that player. I'm only keeping him if I think he's going to get better at it, because right now he is pretty much average defensively.

Are you leaning towards keeping Provorov if it is a 7 year deal? Because I think that is what it would take. I'm adjusted to the idea of overpaying UFAs, but only for players who are solving our biggest problems, and he's not the solution defensively.

To me, years don’t mean much, it’s the AAV. Because even if things go wrong for Provorov in 2-3 years in a 6-8 year deal, I think we’d be able to move him. Especially with the cap going up like it’s supposed to.

 

[majormajor]

To me, years don’t mean much, it’s the AAV. Because even if things go wrong for Provorov in 2-3 years in a 6-8 year deal, I think we’d be able to move him. Especially with the cap going up like it’s supposed to.

I don't worry about things going horribly wrong with Provorov. He's a solid player.

I'm more concerned that we're just locking ourselves into mediocrity and we'll be unable to escape. Get a better defender, even if you have to push in some trade chips to get one.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I don't worry about things going horribly wrong with Provorov. He's a solid player.

I'm more concerned that we're just locking ourselves into mediocrity and we'll be unable to escape. Get a better defender, even if you have to push in some trade chips to get one.

The problem is we already know Provorov works. I don’t think Gavrikov is hitting the market, due to Friedman saying most believe he’s staying in LA, and although DW has history with Orlov, does he want to cash in? Is Orlov better than Provorov?

I’d rather have answers on D than go searching for potential answers. If Provorov would take 6 years at 7.5 I think I’d do it.

 

[majormajor]

The problem is we already know Provorov works.

If you like our defense the way it is, then sure Provorov works. How do you plan on making it better?

I don’t think Gavrikov is hitting the market, due to Friedman saying most believe he’s staying in LA, and although DW has history with Orlov, does he want to cash in? Is Orlov better than Provorov?

I’d rather have answers on D than go searching for potential answers. If Provorov would take 6 years at 7.5 I think I’d do it.

I'm thinking more that we go and trade for a Pelech type who offers more of a pure shutdown game. You bid on Gavrikov and Orlov (short term) but we most likely need a trade fallback. Yes Orlov is better, he's the second best D on the Canes or very close to that.

 

[ViD]

Orlov is 33 and will likely decline soon, I’d rather have Provorov

 

[OG]

You do not want Orlov. Totally over his head in a second pairing role currently. I can't think of anyone the Canes board is in more of a hurry to get rid of. Other than Burns, but he's old and that decline is expected... Orlov is getting paid almost 8M this season. Not a great ROI there. Just watch the first 5 mins of game 2 from yesterday.

I'd feel much better with Provorov.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I was just thinking about what a Tampa or Vegas would do with Provorov. While I'm not sure exactly what they'd do, I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't get locked to him in a deal longer than 4 or 5 years.

I just don't see him as the type of player that a team with a solid model about how to build a championship would commit to a long term deal. A mid term moderate overpay, perhaps. But not a 7 or 8 year deal.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Orlov is 33 and will likely decline soon, I’d rather have Provorov

orlov is 33 and the market for him is going to be mostly short-term deals. if provorov wants 7 years and orlov will accept a 2-year high-aav deal (to expire the same summer that kj and marchy need new deals) it's a better move, period.

 

[VT]

Just so I understand, "retention" and "buyout" are treated the same in terms of slots. We have three slots regardless of why you are holding money?

CBJ still have two buried contracts on the books for next season: Wennberg and Boqvist. So in theory the team can only retain on one of either Elvis or Severson but not both. I don't think either one is tradable without retention taking a bad contract back which I am not sure we really wanna do.

I don't know if it could be done but if Elvis were amenable to it, could we loan him back to his Swiss club for $1M - $2M (just spitballing numbers). I don't know if that means we carry the full cap hit on the books (which we can afford right now). No idea how this works but thinking there must be something the CBA that allows for this scenario.

As for Severson, I think if it is known to him to expect more of the same in future years he would be willing to waive his NTC in order to not sit in the press box every night. Thinking we would need to retain close to half to get a deal done (which I still think is worth it). Can't imagine what his exit interview will be like.

Elvis would have to agree with that. And I doubt that will happen.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Congrats to Ivan, Madison and Drake!

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Hedger on puck rakers podcast said the jackets and Provorov restarted talks after the season, but the offers exchanged were “not even in the ballpark” of each other

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Hedger on puck rakers podcast said the jackets and Provorov restarted talks after the season, but the offers exchanged were “not even in the ballpark” of each other

Based on what I've read, GMDW isn't going to go the 7 or 8 year route and that pretty much is the end of it. Provorov is at the "cash in" age and if I were in his shoes, I'd do the same thing. I'd also do the same thing I'm thinking GMDW is doing.

Looks like #9 is hitting the road.

 

[tunnelvision]

I think there are basically 4 possible outcomes of the Provorov situation.

From best to worst imo:

1) Provorov leaves and we find a better fitting LD2/LD3 replacement
2) We can't get a good replacement but Provorov agrees to sign a short-term contract
3) Provorov leaves and we can't find a replacement
4) Provorov signs a long-term deal with us

It's probably going to be #1 or #3. Sounds like #4 is less likely. #2 even less likely.

 

[EspenK]

Based on what I've read, GMDW isn't going to go the 7 or 8 year route and that pretty much is the end of it. Provorov is at the "cash in" age and if I were in his shoes, I'd do the same thing. I'd also do the same thing I'm thinking GMDW is doing.

Looks like #9 is hitting the road.

Is Ivan Russian for Jack?

 

[GoJackets1]

The only thing about Provorov is I’m struggling to think what team would be willing to give him the length of contract he wants. Maybe the Sharks? No idea.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Is Ivan Russian for Jack?

That's so awful

I'm a nice guy so you only get a double minor. But watch it.

 

[ViD]

I think there are basically 4 possible outcomes of the Provorov situation.

From best to worst imo:

1) Provorov leaves and we find a better fitting LD2/LD3 replacement
2) We can't get a good replacement but Provorov agrees to sign a short-term contract
3) Provorov leaves and we can't find a replacement
4) Provorov signs a long-term deal with us

It's probably going to be #1 or #3. Sounds like #4 is less likely. #2 even less likely.

Is 5 years a short term deal ? I think Provorov should be fine what that term if his money numbers are met and he’s really interested in staying