Player Discussion: Ivan Provorov

[BB88]

Give me Dahlin, Power, Samuelsson - although one of those guys often plays on the right.

I said among the best.

Right now they have the talent to rank somewhere between 3-5 in the East, for longterm potential I’d say they are right there behind Buffalo with Ottawa

I'm going to cherry pick this part because it's interesting to debate.

For me Werenski is a good 2 who honestly is overpaid. He's a very good offensive defenseman but has serious flaws that prevent him from being a true #1.
Those flaws being:

1. Durability, there aren't a ton of true #1 dmen his size and I think it hurts him. He's injured a lot.
2. Passing vision, he is so limited in this imo, he is great 5 on 5 offensively but this is the main reason he sucks on the PP.
3. I'm calling this one "general malaise defensively". We've all seen it, Werenski casually defending in the D zone with no urgency.

Jiricek:
It's way too early to call so I won't but I think he's at minimum a top 4 defenseman. It looks like he needs to get a lot better defensively to become a true #1 and probably develop some kind of mean streak to go with it. Who knows how it progresses.

Provorov: For me, he is our best overall dman, he doesn't really impress me offensively but he makes a lot of good passes. He probably shoots too often for someone who doesnt have that impressive of a shot. What I like the most about his game is his ability to get out of trouble in our zone which this team sucks at. He is always willing to take a hit to make a play and gives this team a level of comfort on the ice. For me he's a well rounded #2 dman who can fill in as a #1 but won't allow you to win long term if he's your only good dman.

Severson:
This one is tough bc you know he has a good track record but my god he makes a lot of dumb d zone mistakes. Apparently he has not improved upon this at all from NJ days. I have hopes he's going to be a positive, he needs to start showing off his O zone potential because that contract is loooooonnnnggg and could get ugly if he doesn't settle in.

Mateychuk:

I think Mateychuk has serious potential, he did not look out of place in pre-season and I like his overall poise with the puck. Obviously way too early to call but I think he could be a #2 dman, I'm quite high on him.

Bean:

I'm still pretty bearish long term on Bean, he's looked good to start but long term I wonder if he truly improves and becomes a long term piece. As a #5 I think he's fine but wonder if other guys push him out. We all know Gudbranson isn't going to sit.

All of that you have maybe 2 solid #2 dmen, 2 others with potential and veteran with a good track record.

There's potential to damage in the playoffs but there's a huge part that's missing here, EXPERIENCE. Hopefully that changes starting soon as it's truly invaluable for development both for players and for a franchise.

Sorry for the unnecessary rant.

A lot will depend on the health of Werenski.
I don’t think healthy Werenski is a top10 Dman in the league but if he ranks 15-20 in the league does that make one a 2D?

The thought on Severson is going to change a lot by the expectations fans have for him.
If one thinks he was brought in to be a top pair Dman they’ll be disappointed. I don’t think that’s how management saw him or why they brought him in. They brought him to be the top pair RD while Jiricek grows and then settle as 2RD.

If he’s the teams #4 you are most likely looking at a damm good defense, if he’s your 2D it’s likely going to be an adventure

 

[BB88]

That feels a little premature, but if you get them to play like they started this year and get good progress from Mateychuk or Svozil (don't even need both) then yes, we're frikkin loaded.

If we are talking about the kids and their potential then yes.
If we are talking Werenski+ Provorov duo they are proven enough to say they rank high in the East just because of those 2.

The best thing they have done during this rebuild is focus on the defense early.
Those forever rebuilding teams were really avoiding& struggling with getting the defense right. Edmonton still is paying the price for it. Buffalo did 3 or 4 rebuilds in a row? before they seemed to get it right.

Werenski 26y
Provorov 26y
Bean 25y
It’s a damm good base for LD group.

If Jiricek develops even into 2D or 3D then RD looks strong enough as well, especially with that LD side

 

[Napoli]

I said among the best.

Right now they have the talent to rank somewhere between 3-5 in the East, for longterm potential I’d say they are right there behind Buffalo with Ottawa




A lot will depend on the health of Werenski.
I don’t think healthy Werenski is a top10 Dman in the league but if he ranks 15-20 in the league does that make one a 2D?

The thought on Severson is going to change a lot by the expectations fans have for him.
If one thinks he was brought in to be a top pair Dman they’ll be disappointed. I don’t think that’s how management saw him or why they brought him in. They brought him to be the top pair RD while Jiricek grows and then settle as 2RD.

If he’s the teams #4 you are most likely looking at a damm good defense, if he’s your 2D it’s likely going to be an adventure

Fair, I'd say he's top 20-30 in the league for sure. Arguably better than that for some.
Overall, I think he's not as reliable as some here believe and that will limit this team's chances to win something one day.

Almost every Cup winning team has a dman that's in the top 15 in the league with a very well rounded game.

 

[squashmaple]

Is it wise to extend Provorov? He'd demand at least the Severson contract, and if one of Mateychuk or Svozil hit, that's a lot of money that could be spent elsewhere. Like on forwards.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

cannot believe we're still having the "is zach werenski a true #1" debate lol

there are certain things he's not great at (running the point on pp1 comes to mind) but he's outstanding in all three zones and controls play. he doesn't have to be cale makar to be a bona fide #1 – he absolutely is one, btw.

he has a reputation for being an "offensive" defenseman but that's not really how he plays. he's a legit two-way guy. he's also not a power play merchant like a lot of other big names.

 

[DarkandStormy]

Is it wise to extend Provorov? He'd demand at least the Severson contract, and if one of Mateychuk or Svozil hit, that's a lot of money that could be spent elsewhere. Like on forwards.

Werenski-Jiricek
Mateychuk-Severson

should be the top 4 starting next season and for the next 5-7 years.

Which leaves you two spots for a 3rd pair

Bean/Svozil (when ready) - Gudbranson/Ceulemans/cheap vet

The team is already overloaded with D (see: Peeke, Boqvist scratches). It would be better to sell high, imo, either at this TDL, over the summer, or next TDL.

 

[BB88]

Is it wise to extend Provorov? He'd demand at least the Severson contract, and if one of Mateychuk or Svozil hit, that's a lot of money that could be spent elsewhere. Like on forwards.

For now asking that question is a great problem to have.
Either Mateychuk jumps into top4 and they regain assets or they have a shot at extending Provorov when he’s 28y, which still is about where you want to sign those UFA deals still.

Fair, I'd say he's top 20-30 in the league for sure. Arguably better than that for some.
Overall, I think he's not as reliable as some here believe and that will limit this team's chances to win something one day.

Almost every Cup winning team has a dman that's in the top 15 in the league with a very well rounded game.

They have 3 Dmen that could be all seen at worst 2D’s with basically all of them having higher ceilings than that.

That’s not going to stop them from being a contender. Florida just flew by the East with at best average blueline

 

[Xoggz22]

One thing that has been nice with Provorov is that he's been very steady and that shoudl continue to allow Werenski to knock the rust off. I mean he hasn't played much hockey in the last 11 months so he's going to need a little time. With a new team, new system and a renewed investment to the game Provorov has been what I had hoped for coming over. He's been very, very good and beyond that on a few nights.

 

[majormajor]

If we are talking about the kids and their potential then yes.
If we are talking Werenski+ Provorov duo they are proven enough to say they rank high in the East just because of those 2.

No it's somewhat premature for all of them. Provorov has played well for five games after several down years. Werenski has to stay healthy.

 

[CBJx614]

Werenski-Jiricek
Mateychuk-Severson

should be the top 4 starting next season and for the next 5-7 years.

Which leaves you two spots for a 3rd pair

Bean/Svozil (when ready) - Gudbranson/Ceulemans/cheap vet

The team is already overloaded with D (see: Peeke, Boqvist scratches). It would be better to sell high, imo, either at this TDL, over the summer, or next TDL.

That's the hope, but there's no guarantee. We aren't just handing top 4 spots out to kids. They need to earn it. If Provorov keeps up this level of play it's going to be almost impossible for a guy like Mateychuk to grab that spot unless Provy falls off hard.

At which point Jarmo has a really hard decision to make, do you trade someone whose playing at a 1D level and take the risk of a kid being able to fill those shoes? Do you keep him for a playoff push and let him walk in the offseason? Or do you keep him and try to completely stack the D?

Or maybe Provorov falls back to earth and becomes a replaceable piece in the top 4.

It really could go a few different ways.

 

[majormajor]

Werenski-Jiricek
Mateychuk-Severson

should be the top 4 starting next season and for the next 5-7 years.

Which leaves you two spots for a 3rd pair

Bean/Svozil (when ready) - Gudbranson/Ceulemans/cheap vet

The team is already overloaded with D (see: Peeke, Boqvist scratches). It would be better to sell high, imo, either at this TDL, over the summer, or next TDL.

Provorov seems to enjoy the fit here, we know he won't want to sign with a defense first team. Perhaps they come to terms.

Provorov - Jiricek
Werenski - Blanks
Mateychuk - Severson

But like I said it's way too early, we don't know his level yet.

 

[Napoli]

For now asking that question is a great problem to have.
Either Mateychuk jumps into top4 and they regain assets or they have a shot at extending Provorov when he’s 28y, which still is about where you want to sign those UFA deals still.



They have 3 Dmen that could be all seen at worst 2D’s with basically all of them having higher ceilings than that.

That’s not going to stop them from being a contender. Florida just flew by the East with at best average blueline

Didn't say they couldn't contend, but winning is a different thing. A strong core will get you far though. For me, playoffs come down to difference makers and there needs to be a strong #1 to counteract the best players in the league.

It's not really a problem to look at, at the moment. Just making the playoffs would be nice.

 

[BB88]

No it's somewhat premature for all of them. Provorov has played well for five games after several down years. Werenski has to stay healthy.

Provorov doesn’t even have to be prime Flyers Provorov for the claim to be true.

They really have a shot at ranking between 3-5 in the East even before the kids start taking a bigger role.

With the kids they could be top3 in the East.

Just happy that that’s one side they don’t have to be concerned about moving forward

Didn't say they couldn't contend, but winning is a different thing. A strong core will get you far though. For me, playoffs come down to difference makers and there needs to be a strong #1 to counteract the best players in the league.

It's not really a problem to look at, at the moment. Just making the playoffs would be nice.

That’s where I hope Fanfilli will stand out in time, be Mackinnon type leader.

& we just have a different opinion on Werenski. I think a team with Werenski as the number 1 option can win, especially if the support group is as good as this group can be

 

[DarkandStormy]

Provorov has maybe been the best Dman on the team so far this year?

 

[CoachWithNoTeam]

Provorov has maybe been the best Dman on the team so far this year?

I think so. We’ll have a big decision to make in the summer if he keeps this up.

Certainly looking like he’s worth what we gave up for him at this point.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Provorov has maybe been the best Dman on the team so far this year?

I’d say so

My order (so far)

1. Provorov
2. Werenski (struggled in game 1 but has been the old Zach since he returned from injury)
3. Bean (but has lagged recently)
4. Gudbranson (surprisingly has done his job well and doesn’t appear like a total anchor)
5. Jiricek
6. Severson
7. Boqvist
8. Peeke

 

[MoeBartoli]

I’d say so

My order (so far)

1. Provorov
2. Werenski (struggled in game 1 but has been the old Zach since he returned from injury)
3. Bean (but has lagged recently)
4. Gudbranson (surprisingly has done his job well and doesn’t appear like a total anchor)
5. Jiricek
6. Severson
7. Boqvist
8. Peeke

This is pretty much where I’d have it with Jiricek likely to step up if the order is revisited in 2-3 weeks. It’s also easy to see how Mateychuk can step into a top 4 role in this club pretty quickly once he reaches the NHL.

Also, I can’t help but think Peeke - though better - is the new Scott Harrington on the roster.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

This is pretty much where I’d have it with Jiricek likely to step up if the order is revisited in 2-3 weeks. It’s also easy to see how Mateychuk can step into a top 4 role in this club pretty quickly once he reaches the NHL.

Also, I can’t help but think Peeke - though better - is the new Scott Harrington on the roster.

Harry is underrated. Peeke is pretty much right there.

 

[ViD]

With not much to be happy about these days…

He leads the team with 7 points and plays extremely effective at both ends of the ice at times

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

With not much to be happy about these days…

He leads the team with 7 points and plays extremely effective at both ends of the ice at times

I wish he had more points and was even more effective!!

 

[ViD]

Somehow still leads the team in points

 

[Michigan Magic]

I see alot of YouTube comments from Philadelphia fans thanking Columbus for taking him.
You're welcome

 

[JRichard]

I see slot of YouTube comments from Philadelphia fans thanking Columbus for taking him.
You're welcome

Expect lots of minutes and head-scratching gaffes. You already know he is not a pp guy.

 

[majormajor]

Expect lots of minutes and head-scratching gaffes. You already know he is not a pp guy.

I didn't think he was going to be a PP guy but Provorov has been killing it there so far. Already 5 PP assists, 4 primary. And our first unit hasn't been on the ice for a goal yet.

 

[JRichard]

I didn't think he was going to be a PP guy but Provorov has been killing it there so far. Already 5 PP assists, 4 primary. And our first unit hasn't been on the ice for a goal yet.

Didnt see him play this year. I do see 6 goals in 41 for a very low % of PP success so killing it seems a bit heavy.
i see he plays 23+ mins. Its too many. Lets wait a few more weeks. Not sour at all on that trade. You think you resign him for 7 mil+?