Ivan Demidov vs. Cayden Lindstrom

[bud12]

Preseason meaningless games and called up for only 4 KHL games where he done very little.

I stand by my opinion. Happy to be proved wrong but Michkov a much better player and prospect.

so how much games you saw them play pro scout? Probably a big fat 0!!!!!

 

[Intangir]

One player since the league's existence is not a good look. I think there's definitely a risk factor involved and may very well be the reason why the 3 teams ahead of Montreal avoided Demidov. Anyways, I think we will get a better picture of him when he plays in the KHL.

You do realize the MHL has only been around since late season 2008/2009 after a very long while being inactive as a league, right?

Oh, and there have been a lot more than 1 player in that span that spent most of their draft year (undrafted or not) playing mostly MHL and still went on to become good NHLers.

Kucherov, Panarin (played 38 games in the MHL vs. only 20 KHL in '09, undrafted), Buchnevich, Chinakhov, Fedotov, and more besides.

Alexander Nikishin spent all of his draft year in the MHL, went undrafted untill 2020, and is considered now to be one of the best defensive prospects not in the NHL. He's gonna be a pretty clear top-4 defenseman if he ever comes over.

So yeah, the whole "MHL is a weak league" argument to attack Demidov's case as a prospect really needs to be put to rest.

Not saying that Demidov's 100% safe, or that he's for sure gonna be a star, but the potential is there in his case.

 

[David Suzuki]

One player since the league's existence is not a good look. I think there's definitely a risk factor involved and may very well be the reason why the 3 teams ahead of Montreal avoided Demidov. Anyways, I think we will get a better picture of him when he plays in the KHL.

I said off the top of my head spend the time looking it up

 

[Rob Sense]

Preseason meaningless games and called up for only 4 KHL games where he done very little.

I stand by my opinion. Happy to be proved wrong but Michkov a much better player and prospect.

soon enough.

 

[Zine]

One player since the league's existence is not a good look. I think there's definitely a risk factor involved and may very well be the reason why the 3 teams ahead of Montreal avoided Demidov. Anyways, I think we will get a better picture of him when he plays in the KHL.

In the NHL:
Kucherov
Shesterkin
Romanov
Buchnevich
Chinakhov
Marchenko
Vasilevsky
Gavrikov
Fedotov

But it seems the recent trend in Russia is to use the MHL to its fullest. All these more notable prospects were drafted from there recently. So its not like Demidov’s situation is a rare occurrence anymore:
Yurov
Simashev
But
Kantserov
Gulyayev
Buchelnikov
Surin
Grebenkin
Khusnutdinov
Gritsyuk
Kovalenko

You do realize the MHL has only been around since late season 2008/2009 after a very long while being inactive as a league, right?

Oh, and there have been a lot more than 1 player in that span that spent most of their draft year (undrafted or not) playing mostly MHL and still went on to become good NHLers.

Kucherov, Panarin (played 38 games in the MHL vs. only 20 KHL in '09, undrafted), Buchnevich, Chinakhov, Fedotov, and more besides.

Alexander Nikishin spent all of his draft year in the MHL, went undrafted untill 2020, and is considered now to be one of the best defensive prospects not in the NHL. He's gonna be a pretty clear top-4 defenseman if he ever comes over.

So yeah, the whole "MHL is a weak league" argument to attack Demidov's case as a prospect really needs to be put to rest.

Not saying that Demidov's 100% safe, or that he's for sure gonna be a star, but the potential is there in his case.

MHL clubs can be super good and super terrible. There's little parity.

For a comparison sake to CHL or USHL, Russia’s U18 NT played a season in the MHL a few years ago. It was like a NTDP experiment.
They tied for 5th and were eliminated in the 1st round of playoffs.

How would any of the 'big 5' U18 teams do in the CHL or USHL? Good enough to win the championship?
I know the NTDP plays in the USHL. but afaik they always ice a U18/U17 split squads. I assume a NTDP "A" team would destroy the USHL, They frequently beat NCAA teams.

 

[5cotland]

so how much games you saw them play pro scout? Probably a big fat 0!!!!!

I could ask you the same question as well as 95% of the users on this site. How many time have you watched him play?

I have seen his match highlights and read match/scout reports more than you think. It's a hobby I enjoy, researching, watching and learning about the prospects in the months leading up to the draft.

 

[Guadana]

Did Montreal make a mistake picking Reinbacher over Michkov? Almost guaranteed. But it happened. Teams like to draft for need.

I hope Lindstrom has an amazing career in Columbus. Their fans deserve an awesome big power forward center.

As for who's better? Nobody knows. Time will tell. Let's just hope for the best for all teams: Columbus, Anaheim, and Montreal.

Imagine having top-6 with
Demidov-Suzuki-Michkov
Slafkovsky-Hage/Dach/Newhook-Caufield

Or some any other combo of this players.

But we will never see it.

 

[SuperScript29]

I said off the top of my head spend the time looking it up

I did, and from the players who were drafted directly out of the MHL nothing really stands out outside of Kucherov, who I should add was more of a surprise given he was taken in the 2nd round and wasn't expected to be this good.

Demidov is the highest player drafted directly out of the MHL, we will see how he turns out I guess.

 

[JohnLennon]

I did, and from the players who were drafted directly out of the MHL nothing really stands out outside of Kucherov, who I should add was more of a surprise given he was taken in the 2nd round and wasn't expected to be this good.

Demidov is the highest player drafted directly out of the MHL, we will see how he turns out I guess.

Your point makes sense logically without knowing the full context. I am not an expert, but I believe Russian hockey has evolved as of late to utilize the MHL a lot more than it used to, and that has reflected in the NHL draft.

In 2020, not a single player was drafted out of the MHL.

In 2023, there were eight, including the likes of Simashev (6th overall), Daniil But (12th overall), and Mikhail Gulyayev (31st overall) - three of them in the first round of the NHL draft.

In 2024, there were eighteen (!!!) players drafted out of the MHL. Among them was Ivan Demidov (5th overall) and Yegor Surin (22nd overall).

As you can see, the trend is shifting substantially towards the MHL being used as a development league in Russia and it has been reflected in the NHL draft system. Using historical context to apply doubts to Demidov makes sense in theory, but in practice, we are seeing fundamental shifts in the Russian leagues.

 

[SuperScript29]

Your point makes sense logically without knowing the full context. I am not an expert, but I believe Russian hockey has evolved as of late to utilize the MHL a lot more than it used to, and that has reflected in the NHL draft.

In 2020, not a single player was drafted out of the MHL.

In 2023, there were eight, including the likes of Simashev (6th overall), Daniil But (12th overall), and Mikhail Gulyayev (31st overall) - three of them in the first round of the NHL draft.

In 2024, there were eighteen (!!!) players drafted out of the MHL. Among them was Ivan Demidov (5th overall) and Yegor Surin (22nd overall).

As you can see, the trend is shifting substantially towards the MHL being used as a development league in Russia and it has been reflected in the NHL draft system. Using historical context to apply doubts to Demidov makes sense in theory, but in practice, we are seeing fundamental shifts in the Russian leagues.

That's fine, but the jury is still out on these recent drafts, so until we see these players make significant NHL impact, it's still something to be seen whether the MHL is a good league or not.

One more thing, in 2020 there was 18 players drafted out of Russia, 3 of them were from the VHL, 5 out of the KHL, while the remaining 10 were all from the MHL actually. Out of those MHL players, one was taken in the 1st round (Yegor Chinakhov), one was taken in the 2nd round (Marat Khusnutdinov), and the rest were all taken in the later rounds. Needless to say, out of the 2020 draft no Russian has done anything significant in the NHL so far.

 

[Zine]

That's fine, but the jury is still out on these recent drafts, so until we see these players make significant NHL impact, it's still something to be seen whether the MHL is a good league or not.

One more thing, in 2020 there was 18 players drafted out of Russia, 3 of them were from the VHL, 5 out of the KHL, while the remaining 10 were all from the MHL actually. Out of those MHL players, one was taken in the 1st round (Yegor Chinakhov), one was taken in the 2nd round (Marat Khusnutdinov), and the rest were all taken in the later rounds. Needless to say, out of the 2020 draft no Russian has done anything significant in the NHL so far.

The majority of elite Russians are still products of the MHL though.
Russia isn't N.A. where there are vastly different development paths of various quality (OHL, QMJHL, BCHL, NCAA, NTDP, USHL, etc.)
All Russians develop in the same connected uniformed system. Juniors->MHL->Professional (VHL/KHL).

Demidov will play VHL or KHL this year. He's being produced in the same regimented system that produced elite Russians regardless of whether they're drafted out of the MHL, VHL or KHL.

 

[SuperScript29]

The majority of elite Russians are still products of the MHL though.
Russia isn't N.A. where there are vastly different development paths of various quality (OHL, QMJHL, BCHL, NCAA, NTDP, USHL, etc.)
All Russians develop in the same connected uniformed system. Juniors->MHL->Professional (VHL/KHL).

Demidov will play VHL or KHL this year. He's being produced in the same regimented system that produced elite Russians regardless of whether they're drafted out of the MHL, VHL or KHL.

I understand that, which is why I said that we will get a better idea on how good Demidov is in the upcoming year or so. To me, it seems like being drafted straight out of the MHL is similar to being drafted straight out of the Canadian Junior A leagues like BCHL, AJHL, etc. For most part the players will likely not pan out, but every now and then you'll get a homerun.

 

[Kennerback]

Power Forward vs Skilled offensive Forward?

 

[Zine]

I understand that, which is why I said that we will get a better idea on how good Demidov is in the upcoming year or so. To me, it seems like being drafted straight out of the MHL is similar to being drafted straight out of the Canadian Junior A leagues like BCHL, AJHL, etc. For most part the players will likely not pan out, but every now and then you'll get a homerun.

But that comparison only applies if every elite North American played in the BCHL, AJHL at some point, only to be drafted out of a different league. However most elites don't play in those leagues.

On the contrary, essentially all Russians are products of the MHL.

 

[SuperScript29]

But that comparison only applies if every elite North American played in the BCHL, AJHL at some point, only to be drafted out of a different league. However most elites don't play in those leagues.

On the contrary, essentially all Russians are products of the MHL.

That's because the talent pool and interest is much higher in North America, so naturally you're going to have higher level leagues for junior players to join.

Take it for whatever it's worth, but when it comes to the draft, the highest level before the NHL in Canada is the major junior Canadian leagues, in the US it's NCAA followed by USHL, in Europe it's whatever top league the country has. For Russia specifically, it's KHL > VHL > MHL. Yes all Russian junior players go through the MHL, but I would hope that the year they're being drafted, they're already playing in the KHL.

 

[Zine]

That's because the talent pool and interest is much higher in North America, so naturally you're going to have higher level leagues for junior players to join.

Take it for whatever it's worth, but when it comes to the draft, the highest level before the NHL in Canada is the major junior Canadian leagues, in the US it's NCAA followed by USHL, in Europe it's whatever top league the country has. For Russia specifically, it's KHL > VHL > MHL. Yes all Russian junior players go through the MHL, but I would hope that the year they're being drafted, they're already playing in the KHL.

Well that's my point. MHL is likewise a really good development league as tons of great players have passed though it, basically every elite Russian.
It's exponentially higher competition than Canadian Jr A.
Again, Russia's U18s National Team finished 5th in MHL a few years ago. Eliminated in 1st round. Any one of Fin, Can, Rus, US, Swe U18s would outright decimate the BCHL or AJHL every single year.


And Demidov would be a KHLer by now if he wasn't on SKA. Direct comparisons to other players drafted out of the MHL really overlook the complexities and nuances of the situation.

 

[Ford Prefect]

Biomechanics is a personal hobby and interest of mine. That's good to hear on Lindstrom that they've evaluated the cause of the issue holistically.

You don't say? Loop quantum gravity theory is a hobby of mine. We should dish sometime.

 

[SuperScript29]

Well that's my point. MHL is likewise a really good development league as tons of great players have passed though it, basically every elite Russian.
It's exponentially higher competition than Canadian Jr A.
Again, Russia's U18s National Team finished 5th in MHL a few years ago. Eliminated in 1st round. Any one of Fin, Can, Rus, US, Swe U18s would outright decimate the BCHL or AJHL every single year.


And Demidov would be a KHLer by now if he wasn't on SKA. Direct comparisons to other players drafted out of the MHL really overlook the complexities and nuances of the situation.

I do think that the MHL is overall a better league than the BCHL, AJHL, etc, but still behind the Canadian major junior leagues, the NCAA, and possibly even the USHL. Which going back to the original topic, I'm not surprised why some of those GMs passed on Demidov, I'm sure this was a factor.

I'm a little skeptical on Demidov and will wait to see what kind of impact he will have at the KHL level before thinking this is a steal. This is not like the Michkov situation, because the latter was drafted straight out of the KHL in which he had a tremendous season during his draft year, and to top it off he was already playing in the KHL a year before getting drafted, not to mention this past year, which once again at the KHL level he proved why he was a steal.

 

[DollardStLaurent]

Well that's my point. MHL is likewise a really good development league as tons of great players have passed though it, basically every elite Russian.
It's exponentially higher competition than Canadian Jr A.
Again, Russia's U18s National Team finished 5th in MHL a few years ago. Eliminated in 1st round. Any one of Fin, Can, Rus, US, Swe U18s would outright decimate the BCHL or AJHL every single year.


And Demidov would be a KHLer by now if he wasn't on SKA. Direct comparisons to other players drafted out of the MHL really overlook the complexities and nuances of the situation.

Not necessarily. SKA is known to loan young players to other KHL teams.

 

[Just Linda]

The prospect of Demidov playing centre could change everything.

 

[Zine]

I do think that the MHL is overall a better league than the BCHL, AJHL, etc, but still behind the Canadian major junior leagues, the NCAA, and possibly even the USHL. Which going back to the original topic, I'm not surprised why some of those GMs passed on Demidov, I'm sure this was a factor.

I'm a little skeptical on Demidov and will wait to see what kind of impact he will have at the KHL level before thinking this is a steal. This is not like the Michkov situation, because the latter was drafted straight out of the KHL in which he had a tremendous season during his draft year, and to top it off he was already playing in the KHL a year before getting drafted, not to mention this past year, which once again at the KHL level he proved why he was a steal.

MHL is slightly better than USHL. I mean 2006 born Gridin was the leading scorer in that league.

Point is, if the litmus test was KHL production vs MHL production, every team would've taken Artamonov over Demidov.
You need to actually watch players.
It's the reason Makar, despite playing in the shit AJHL. was taken #4 over players playing in pro leagues.

Not necessarily. SKA is known to loan young players to other KHL teams.

Right, but Demidov can't be loaned though.

 

[SuperScript29]

MHL is slightly better than USHL. I mean 2006 born Gridin was the leading scorer in that league.

Point is, if the litmus test was KHL production vs MHL production, every team would've taken Artamonov over Demidov.
You need to actually watch players.
It's the reason Makar, despite playing in the shit AJHL. was taken #4 over players playing in pro leagues.

Draft position doesn't always mean better player. So we will see down the line who the better player is. As far as the MHL being a better league to draft out of directly in comparison to the USHL, here's a list of players drafted directly from the MHL since its creation that have made impact at the NHL level:

Nikita Kucherov
Andrei Vasilevskiy
Pavel Buchnevich
Igor Shesterkin
Ilya Samsonov
Alexander Romanov
Kirill Marchenko
Yegor Chinakhov

Now compare that to the players drafted straight out of the USHL from the same year the MHL started:

Jack Hughes
Adam Fox
J.T. Miller
Johnny Gaudreau
Dylan Larkin
Kyle Connor
Clayton Keller
Jeremy Swayman
Brock Boeser
Jacob Trouba
Jaccob Slavin
Brandon Montour
Nick Schmaltz
Alex Tuch
Jaden Schwartz
Justin Faulk
Jason Zucker
Cole Caufield
Matthew Boldy
Bryan Rust
John Gibson
Jake Sanderson
Mike Matheson
Jake Guentzel
JT Compher
Troy Terry
Casey Mittelstadt
Josh Norris
Joel Farabee
K'Andre Miller
Trevor Zegras
Matias Maccelli
Cam York
Brock Faber
Luke Hughes
Logan Cooley

This is not even all of them, I actually left out the depth players that are also playing in the NHL today, and there's plenty of them. Anyhow, it's not rocket science, you take a look at the two lists and it's obvious that players from the USHL are much more likely to pan out, which makes it a better league to draft from.

 

[majormajor]

Draft position doesn't always mean better player. So we will see down the line who the better player is. As far as the MHL being a better league to draft out of directly in comparison to the USHL, here's a list of players drafted directly from the MHL since its creation that have made impact at the NHL level:

Nikita Kucherov
Andrei Vasilevskiy
Pavel Buchnevich
Igor Shesterkin
Ilya Samsonov
Alexander Romanov
Kirill Marchenko
Yegor Chinakhov

Now compare that to the players drafted straight out of the USHL from the same year the MHL started:

First a few minor points.

Chinakhov was undrafted in his last MHL season, and was drafted after his D+1 / KHL rookie year. Same with Gavrikov (drafted in his D+2?), who somehow made it to the 6th round despite being WJC D MVP.

Panarin played both MHL and KHL and went undrafted.

Kuzmenko and Mikheyev also were MHLers and didn't get drafted. The same for Artem Zub.

Kuznetsov played both MHL and KHL in his draft year.

For the league as a whole, there's going to be more players coming out of the USHL. But the Russians are often underdrafted, or at least there's more volatility between player value and draft position. So which is the better league to draft from? It depends not just on the number of players but whether those players are getting underrated / overrated by other clubs.

As far as league quality questions - the worst MHL clubs are really bad, maybe worse than Maritime Division bad. But you also have top clubs that look amazing. Like there were times Loko was rolling out Surin, But, and Simashev. Their roster as a whole played as deep and solid as the London Knights. SKA was loaded. Torpedo was loaded for the playoffs and sent Silayev back down. Those games are as high a level as the Memorial Cup, it's a very good measuring stick for Demidov.

 

[Guadana]

I understand that, which is why I said that we will get a better idea on how good Demidov is in the upcoming year or so. To me, it seems like being drafted straight out of the MHL is similar to being drafted straight out of the Canadian Junior A leagues like BCHL, AJHL, etc. For most part the players will likely not pan out, but every now and then you'll get a homerun.

Which mean you know nothing about Russian hockey system. Its okay. Lack of knowledge is not a sin.


Demidon is second best player from the draft by a mile and may be the best offensive contributor.

 

[pockets321]

Which mean you know nothing about Russian hockey system. Its okay. Lack of knowledge is not a sin.


Demidon is second best player from the draft by a mile and may be the best offensive contributor.

Well that settles the debate, this random poster on HF said Demidov is better so must be 100% true.