Ivan Demidov vs. Cayden Lindstrom

[CanadienShark]

Only two of these players are stars

Which one of Kucherov, Shesterkin, or Vasilevsky is not? Buchnevich is borderline too.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Which one of Kucherov, Shesterkin, or Vasilevsky is not? Buchnevich is borderline too.

Didn’t notice Vasy, 3 of them are then

 

[Guadana]

Well that settles the debate, this random poster on HF said Demidov is better so must be 100% true.

Yap. Random poster said that MHL is worser than USHL and on the level/lower than some B\C level junior canadien league. You live in the world of random posters.
And after some time we will see, who will be better - MHL champion Demidov or tough guy from "real" league. And will compare Demidov, "who was drafted from MHL". with best players from B\C level canadien leagues.

 

[Xirik]

Well that settles the debate, this random poster on HF said Demidov is better so must be 100% true.

1, That random poster is Russian

2. He rates both Lindstrom and Demidov highly. I've read it

3. He watches a lot of video on draftee's

I trust his word on prospects 99% more then any other poster.

 

[Zine]

Draft position doesn't always mean better player. So we will see down the line who the better player is. As far as the MHL being a better league to draft out of directly in comparison to the USHL, here's a list of players drafted directly from the MHL since its creation that have made impact at the NHL level:

Nikita Kucherov
Andrei Vasilevskiy
Pavel Buchnevich
Igor Shesterkin
Ilya Samsonov
Alexander Romanov
Kirill Marchenko
Yegor Chinakhov

Now compare that to the players drafted straight out of the USHL from the same year the MHL started:

Jack Hughes
Adam Fox
J.T. Miller
Johnny Gaudreau
Dylan Larkin
Kyle Connor
Clayton Keller
Jeremy Swayman
Brock Boeser
Jacob Trouba
Jaccob Slavin
Brandon Montour
Nick Schmaltz
Alex Tuch
Jaden Schwartz
Justin Faulk
Jason Zucker
Cole Caufield
Matthew Boldy
Bryan Rust
John Gibson
Jake Sanderson
Mike Matheson
Jake Guentzel
JT Compher
Troy Terry
Casey Mittelstadt
Josh Norris
Joel Farabee
K'Andre Miller
Trevor Zegras
Matias Maccelli
Cam York
Brock Faber
Luke Hughes
Logan Cooley

This is not even all of them, I actually left out the depth players that are also playing in the NHL today, and there's plenty of them. Anyhow, it's not rocket science, you take a look at the two lists and it's obvious that players from the USHL are much more likely to pan out, which makes it a better league to draft from.

Lemme guess. You also think the USHL>VHL because USHL produces more NHLers? Yet VHL teams would thoroughly annihilate USHL clubs. Men vs boys.
But what if Demidov dominated men in the VHL? Would you still say he's a risky pick considering few NHLers are drafted out of the VHL?

Don't conflate # of drafted players with quality of competition......or even quality of development. Doing so shows a very rudimentary ability to grasp the nuances and intricacies of the situation. You're literally painting a picture using the broadest strokes possible.

 

[Zine]

1, That random poster is Russian

2. He rates both Lindstrom and Demidov highly. I've read it

3. He watches a lot of video on draftee's

I trust his word on prospects 99% more then any other poster.

Level of MHL play can vary greatly. That's why you need to watch players and not stat count or make a broad generalizations about them.

Bottom teams are bad....like BCHL level. Top teams are every bit as good as the best in the CHL.

Playoff time can get super interesting as team are reinforced with players from KHL and VHL.
Also more overagers are allowed on rosters than in the CHL.
It's not uncommon for average skilled overagers to dominate junior hockey. You see it all the time in the CHL. Age can make all the difference at this level.

 

[SuperScript29]

First a few minor points.

Chinakhov was undrafted in his last MHL season, and was drafted after his D+1 / KHL rookie year. Same with Gavrikov (drafted in his D+2?), who somehow made it to the 6th round despite being WJC D MVP.

Panarin played both MHL and KHL and went undrafted.

Kuzmenko and Mikheyev also were MHLers and didn't get drafted. The same for Artem Zub.

Kuznetsov played both MHL and KHL in his draft year.

For the league as a whole, there's going to be more players coming out of the USHL. But the Russians are often underdrafted, or at least there's more volatility between player value and draft position. So which is the better league to draft from? It depends not just on the number of players but whether those players are getting underrated / overrated by other clubs.

As far as league quality questions - the worst MHL clubs are really bad, maybe worse than Maritime Division bad. But you also have top clubs that look amazing. Like there were times Loko was rolling out Surin, But, and Simashev. Their roster as a whole played as deep and solid as the London Knights. SKA was loaded. Torpedo was loaded for the playoffs and sent Silayev back down. Those games are as high a level as the Memorial Cup, it's a very good measuring stick for Demidov.

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying, it's not that the MHL is not a good development league, from the looks of it all the main Russian talent goes through there. My issue is that during the draft year, if I'm drafting that high I would prefer that the prospect is already playing at the highest level. That's not to say that Demidov is not talented. I'm just stating that based on this thread, Lindstrom seems like a safer pick and I completely see reason in taking him over Demidov.

Panarain is not really a good example since he's an outlier given that he wasn't even drafted to begin with. Kuznetsov did play in the MHL during his draft year, but of all the games he played that year, 80% was in the KHL, not MHL. By the time the draft came along he was being drafted out of the KHL.

 

[SuperScript29]

Lemme guess. You also think the USHL>VHL because USHL produces more NHLers? Yet VHL teams would thoroughly annihilate USHL clubs. Men vs boys.
But what if Demidov dominated men in the VHL? Would you still say he's a risky pick considering few NHLers are drafted out of the VHL?

Don't conflate # of drafted players with quality of competition......or even quality of development. Doing so shows a very rudimentary ability to grasp the nuances and intricacies of the situation. You're literally painting a picture using the broadest strokes possible.

I'm not painting anything, the data speaks for itself. The truth of the matter is, Russian talent in general is actually lacking, and the last high end Russian player to be drafted to make star contribution at the NHL level was taken back in 2015 from the KHL (Kirill Kaprizov). Since then no Russian star has been drafted regardless of league.

On the flipside, how many stars came out from the USHL since 2015? This also includes players that were drafted out of the NCAA who took the USHL route. I'm sure they're too many to count, so I'm not gonna bother.

 

[majormajor]

I would prefer that the prospect is already playing at the highest level. That's not to say that Demidov is not talented. I'm just stating that based on this thread, Lindstrom seems like a safer pick and I completely see reason in taking him over Demidov.

You want them to play at the highest level so you get a better measuring stick, correct?

I totally understand that and it would have been more comforting to see Demidov in the KHL or VHL but I don't think it makes CHLers like Lindstrom look better in comparison. For game watching you can see Demidov playing some better teams in the MHL than Lindstrom faced at any point.

What's the best team Lindstrom played against? Maybe Moose Jaw? I watch a lot of them because I'm a big Mateychuk and Firkus fan. I have the sense they would get smoked in the MHL playoffs, and that only London and maybe Saginaw on a good day would have a chance to win the MHL championship. I'd guess that Loko and SKA would have a better shot at it.

For counting points I get it that the MHL schedule needs to be heavily examined, sort of the way you would discount some scoring in the USHL or QMJHL Maritime Division.

 

[Zine]

I'm not painting anything, the data speaks for itself. The truth of the matter is, Russian talent in general is actually lacking, and the last high end Russian player to be drafted to make star contribution at the NHL level was taken back in 2015 from the KHL (Kirill Kaprizov). Since then no Russian star has been drafted regardless of league.

On the flipside, how many stars came out from the USHL since 2015? This also includes players that were drafted out of the NCAA who took the USHL route. I'm sure they're too many to count, so I'm not gonna bother.

The data doesn;t speak for itself because your interpretation of it is superficial.

Your reasoning could similarly argue that every USHLer is a safer pick than Demidov because USHL produces more NHLers.
USHL MVP Mac Swanson>>Demidov!!!!
Your logic s faulty, broad brush and totally ridiculous.