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Prospect Info: Ivan Demidov (2024 5th OA): SKA St. Petersburg (KHL)

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HuGort said:
Demidov will make Suzuki a 90 point center. Slaf don't have the hands to play top 6. Slaf make good second liner, with Desnoyers be ideal. Lol. With Dach on wing. Hage on third line, with Heineman
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Hage is a superior prospect to Desnoyers, for now. Hage is having an equal D+1 to Caufield's. Desnoyers is not there yet, and might never be. I know it's almost mandatory to overrate Quebec players, still, it shows a bias that discounts what Hage has done so far, in a better league.
 
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"I know it's almost mandatory to overrate Quebec players..."

Assertions like these suggest that the opposite is true of you, where it sounds like, for you, it is mandatory to devalue Quebec players?

It goes beyond the phrasing of your posit.
 
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Scriptor said:
"I know it's almost mandatory to overrate Quebec players..."

Assertions like these suggest that the opposite is true of you, where it sounds like, for you, it is mandatory to devalue Quebec players?

It goes beyond the phrasing of your posit.
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The statement feels pretty accurate for some of us anglo fans. Y'all like your hometown prospects, but the hype gets a little out of control sometimes. We don't often begrudge you your preferences, but it be a little tiresome when the over-rating gets that little bit out of control.
 
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Grate n Colorful Oz said:
Hage is a superior prospect to Desnoyers, for now. Hage is having an equal D+1 to Caufield's. Desnoyers is not there yet, and might never be. I know it's almost mandatory to overrate Quebec players, still, it shows a bias that discounts what Hage has done so far, in a better league.
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Scriptor said:
"I know it's almost mandatory to overrate Quebec players..."

Assertions like these suggest that the opposite is true of you, where it sounds like, for you, it is mandatory to devalue Quebec players?

It goes beyond the phrasing of your posit.
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...yup...great idea to start up this shytestorm debate...tag team it with the debate about all the shyte down south...now we just all hate each other...Putin wins (had to get the Russia Debate in there somewhere, right??)...and if Putin wins, Demidov doesn't come over...we all lose...so:

allyouneedislove.gif



:thumbu:


...and yes, I'm aware that I was the arsehole that started the shyte last night/early this morning, so see this as me turning over a new leaf...hug it out, kids!!...:biglaugh:





...and yes, I'm totally lying about turning over a new leaf...🤣
 
JIMVINNY said:
The statement feels pretty accurate for some of us anglo fans.
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Jsuis québécois français, alors Scriptor peut aller se réhabiller. I just don't live by idiotic tribal biases. I leave that to the emotionally staunted.

And yes, someone would need a major pro-french-quebec bias to put Desnoyers ahead of Hage right now. Hage is objectively ahead, doing great in a better league.
 
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Grate n Colorful Oz said:
Jsuis québécois français, alors Scriptor peut aller se réhabiller. I just don't live by idiotic tribal biases. I leave that to the emotionally staunted.

And yes, someone would need a major pro-french-quebec bias to put Desnoyers ahead of Hage right now. Hage is objectively ahead, doing great in a better league.
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Hage is only ahead right now because he is further in his development, being in his D+1 while Desnoyers is in his draft year

If you compare their respective draft years instead, Desnoyers easily comes out ahead. He will deservedly be picked top 5-10 this year
 
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Michelangelo said:
Hage is only ahead right now because he is further in his development, being in his D+1 while Desnoyers is in his draft year

If you compare their respective draft years instead, Desnoyers easily comes out ahead. He will deservedly be picked top 5-10 this year
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Not really. Hage was injured and his father died. In normal circumstances he would've been top 10 in a much better draft than 2025.

What Desnoyers is doing in the Q doesn't lend itself to be higher than PPG on a shit team in a hypothetical Div1 D+1 season in the NCAA.

And maybe put on the reading glasses because my initial post said Hage is further ahead FOR NOW.
 
Michelangelo said:
Hage is only ahead right now because he is further in his development, being in his D+1 while Desnoyers is in his draft year

If you compare their respective draft years instead, Desnoyers easily comes out ahead. He will deservedly be picked top 5-10 this year
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Demidov went 5th last year......he is in a tier above Desnoyers as is last years draft compared to this year's so comparing Hage's draft position to Desnoyers projected position is a meaningless excercise. Surely you aren't going to argue that Desnoyers is comparable to Demidov if he gets selected 5th OA???

I don't know that Desnoyers goes top 10 in last years draft and if Hage was not coming off a major knee injury and dealing with the death of his father he doesn't get off to the slow start that he did and very possibly goes top 10. They are very close in value and both have been at the top of their age group from AAA to the present. You can not have an honest conversation about these two if you disregard Hage missing almost his entire D-1 season, the huge disparity in draft quality between their respective drafts and the death of his father shortly before the beginning of his draft year. The second half of that year he was absolutely dominating the USHL and it was shocking to me that he was even available at #21 as Hughes and company were still trying to move up further to increase the odds of drafting him.

It can not remotely be argued that Desnoyers would go later in last years draft and that a healthy Hage would have went higher. The end result is just splitting hairs on a highly subjective topic.

I love both of these players so this is not a Hage propaganda session, it is just providing context and nuance to a claim that was entirely devoid of either.
 
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Grate n Colorful Oz said:
Jsuis québécois français, alors Scriptor peut aller se réhabiller. I just don't live by idiotic tribal biases. I leave that to the emotionally staunted.

And yes, someone would need a major pro-french-quebec bias to put Desnoyers ahead of Hage right now. Hage is objectively ahead, doing great in a better league.
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This is a joke argument, Buddy. I've seen French Quebecers have some of the biggest anti French Quebec biases.

On another site I visit, the harshest anti-Québécois is a francophone living in a nouveau-riche anglophone district.

I'm just saying that you stating it is an automatic for French Quebecers to over-rate Quebec players is just a demonstration of an anti-Québécois bias.

I'm talking about how you attributing this general bias demonstrates a bias of your own, not arguing that you are appropriating the right to bash the French- Québécois.

How you make that into me claiming that Desnoyers is better than Hage is beyond me! You're arguing the wrong thing.

In either case, both Hage and Desnoyers still need to improve certain aspects of their games, but Hage is, indeed, ahead of Desnoyers at this point.

In both cases, though, we are talking about skills and potential, not blue chip prospects.

Les Canadiens Français Québécois (parce que tu n'es certainement pas obligé d'être canadien Français pour être un québécois) ont toujours été leurs propres ennemis, souvent par cause de jalousie.

Félicitations de pouvoir entendre (pas nécessairement comprendre) cette réalité décrite ci-haut.
 
Michelangelo said:
Hage is only ahead right now because he is further in his development, being in his D+1 while Desnoyers is in his draft year

If you compare their respective draft years instead, Desnoyers easily comes out ahead. He will deservedly be picked top 5-10 this year
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He might deservedly be picked ahead of Hage's selection ranking in this year's draft, but the data is extremely raw and neither player is/was a blue chip prospect. a year of development can make a huge difference and nobody nows how Desnoyers will improve or not, but they have seen how well Hage has fared.

This argument is moot and, for some, just an opportunity to state that a Q player is worth less than another player in order to promote an agenda that has less to do with hockey than it should.
 
Estimated_Prophet said:
Demidov went 5th last year......he is in a tier above Desnoyers as is last years draft compared to this year's so comparing Hage's draft position to Desnoyers projected position is a meaningless excercise. Surely you aren't going to argue that Desnoyers is comparable to Demidov if he gets selected 5th OA???

I don't know that Desnoyers goes top 10 in last years draft and if Hage was not coming off a major knee injury and dealing with the death of his father he doesn't get off to the slow start that he did and very possibly goes top 10. They are very close in value and both have been at the top of their age group from AAA to the present. You can not have an honest conversation about these two if you disregard Hage missing almost his entire D-1 season, the huge disparity in draft quality between their respective drafts and the death of his father shortly before the beginning of his draft year. The second half of that year he was absolutely dominating the USHL and it was shocking to me that he was even available at #21 as Hughes and company were still trying to move up further to increase the odds of drafting him.

It can not remotely be argued that Desnoyers would go later in last years draft and that a healthy Hage would have went higher. The end result is just splitting hairs on a highly subjective topic.

I love both of these players so this is not a Hage propaganda session, it is just providing context and nuance to a claim that was entirely devoid of either.
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Anything can be extrapolated because there is absolutely no way of knowing/proving alternate realities.

I honestly think that the key is that neither Hage nor Desnoyers are blue chip prospects, no matter how much hope any fan has for either prospect.

Therefore, the development process is what matters most afterwards, not the draft selection ranking.

Hopefully, Hage continues to progress as he has shown to be capable of progressing, on his way to becoming an impact player for the Habs, preferably at C, but at wing, falling short of that.

And, if Desnoyers is selected by the Habs, hopefully the same thing happens and, like Hage, that player has an impact in the Habs' lineup.
 
BigDaddyLurch said:
...he'll start on the 3rd line with NewJob and PowerhorseStonehands...break him in slowly... :thumbu:
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You mean totally demoralize him. He might take the first plane back to Russia,

Michelangelo said:
Hage is only ahead right now because he is further in his development, being in his D+1 while Desnoyers is in his draft year

If you compare their respective draft years instead, Desnoyers easily comes out ahead. He will deservedly be picked top 5-10 this year
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No. Hage comes out ahead when you evaluate talent. Both should be very good players. Hage has the talent to be better.
 
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