Blue Jays Discussion: It's the off-season. Stuff might happen. Or it might not.

[AllDay28]

I like that were getting Lindor for nothing. Martin is good as gone if Lindor is coming this way.

 

[Discoverer]

I like that were getting Lindor for nothing. Martin is good as gone if Lindor is coming this way.

Martin is far more valuable than anything Boston got for Betts.

 

[weems]

I like that were getting Lindor for nothing. Martin is good as gone if Lindor is coming this way.

Since when is Groshans nothing?

This was just said about him in a top 100 MLB ranking

"Jordan Groshans looks like the next homegrown offensive star for the Toronto Blue Jays."

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Martin is far more valuable than anything Boston got for Betts.

This guy probably thinks we're still in the days of Gleyber for a couple of months of Chapman.

 

[hoc123]

The only problem I see with the Jays and the Indians making a deal is that the Indians seem to want young MLB players with control rather than prospects who are a couple of years away, and I don't see many players on the Jays who make sense in that regard. Gurriel, Hernandez, Bichette, Guerrero and Biggio all are too valuable for a year of Lindor, the Indians don't have any room for Rowdy Tellez, and the Jays have no young pitching, beside Pearson, who is good enough to be a main piece in a trade. The only piece on the Jays who seems like it would be a decent fit would be Danny Jansen, but I don't see the Jays including him unless they had someone to fill in as starter for at least a year or two.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I like that were getting Lindor for nothing. Martin is good as gone if Lindor is coming this way.

This is just flat out not true.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

The only problem I see with the Jays and the Indians making a deal is that the Indians seem to want young MLB players with control rather than prospects who are a couple of years away, and I don't see many players on the Jays who make sense in that regard. Gurriel, Hernandez, Bichette, Guerrero and Biggio all are too valuable for a year of Lindor, the Indians don't have any room for Rowdy Tellez, and the Jays have no young pitching, beside Pearson, who is good enough to be a main piece in a trade. The only piece on the Jays who seems like it would be a decent fit would be Danny Jansen, but I don't see the Jays including him unless they had someone to fill in as starter for at least a year or two.

I don't know about that. The Indians will take whatever the best package is.

Even if that wasn't the case we have some young players in Kay, Hatch, Fisher, Jansen, Tellez.

Jansen isn't hard to replace. We have fingers McGuire and Kirk to groom and we can sign some other catcher to hit below 200 with solid defense.

 

[Haringoth]

For what it's worth, in both the Bauer and Clevenger trades, Cleveland adopted the "quantity over quality" approach, getting back 5 and 6 pieces respectively. None of the prospects moved were especially premium, but both included an intriguing major league piece in Reyes and Hedges.

Maybe it was a coincidence, or maybe Cleveland believes in their development and wants to buy as many tickets as possible for the prospect lottery. Lindor would be the best of the three stars they traded, but also comes with the least control. If Gurriel is going the other way, as has been theorized to death, I can't imagine there would be a huge add.

 

[dredeye]

The only problem I see with the Jays and the Indians making a deal is that the Indians seem to want young MLB players with control rather than prospects who are a couple of years away, and I don't see many players on the Jays who make sense in that regard. Gurriel, Hernandez, Bichette, Guerrero and Biggio all are too valuable for a year of Lindor, the Indians don't have any room for Rowdy Tellez, and the Jays have no young pitching, beside Pearson, who is good enough to be a main piece in a trade. The only piece on the Jays who seems like it would be a decent fit would be Danny Jansen, but I don't see the Jays including him unless they had someone to fill in as starter for at least a year or two.

Simple solution is. Trade Jansen and Kloffenstein for Lindor and then sign Realmuto. Done and done. Add Bauer and a cf and voila

 

[canucksfan]

 

[Morgs]

Gurriel for Lindor is three years of a cheap, well above average player at a position with little depth for one year of a star at a position where they have a star.

It makes no sense. If you trade for Lindor, it's because you're going for it now (and for the next few years, if there's an extension). You give up prospects and/or secondary MLB pieces in a deal like that, not a guy who's been one of the better players in the league at his position over the last year with no replacement of any kind in the organization.

I'm not saying it makes sense! I'm just saying that if they demanded Gurriel be a part of it (or the only piece) I'd let him go. I dont want to trade Gurriel, and it doesn't make sense. I was only replying about the fact I dont see him as a basically untouchable like I do Vlad, Bo, Biggio, Jansen, Teo, Pearson, Ryu, Martin, and Groshans.

Edit: also its assumed for me we're extending Lindor.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Teo straight up for an extended Lindor, who says no?

 

[Amadeus]

Top prospects are rarely getting traded but due to our depth of top prospects in the infield I think they will press us to give up one of Martinez, Groshans.

 

[Morgs]

Top prospects are rarely getting traded but due to our depth of top prospects in the infield I think they will press us to give up one of Martinez, Groshans.

I'd be shocked if it was Groshans.

Martinez is possible if there are a bunch of teams with similar offers.... but even that would be relatively surprising.

 

[RCGP2]

With all this Lindor talk, what about Story from Colorado? He's in a similar situation, the Rockies have a huge payroll so maybe they might want some relief.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

With all this Lindor talk, what about Story from Colorado? He's in a similar situation, the Rockies have a huge payroll so maybe they might want some relief.

I still have PTSD from Colorado shortstops.

 

[selltrade]

Hypothetically, Lindor would likely be our SS, while Bichette would move to CF right? Strengthen our lineup, and fill a position of need.

2bag for BB. Biggio becomes 3bagger or super utility aka ben zobrist

 

[Discoverer]

I'm not saying it makes sense! I'm just saying that if they demanded Gurriel be a part of it (or the only piece) I'd let him go. I dont want to trade Gurriel, and it doesn't make sense. I was only replying about the fact I dont see him as a basically untouchable like I do Vlad, Bo, Biggio, Jansen, Teo, Pearson, Ryu, Martin, and Groshans.

Edit: also its assumed for me we're extending Lindor.

Yeah, and I understand that point of view. My thinking is just that if they demand a significant piece of the current team in return (particularly, as I mentioned, one with multiple years of cheap control at a position of limited depth for the organization) then you just don't bother making the trade; you either look elsewhere in a trade for a team that's a better fit or you plug the holes in free agency and aim high next offseason (when Lindor, Baez, Correa, Seager, Bryant, and Story are all slated to be available).

The Jays can keep all of Jansen, Vlad, Biggio, Bo, Gurriel, Teoscar, Ryu, and Pearson (for me, the core win-now pieces) and still have the pieces available to get basically anyone they want. There's no need to move a win-now piece in a win-now trade.

 

[hockeywiz542]

The Blue Jays have what it takes to trade for Francisco Lindor. But there’s a limit | The Star

According to USA Today’s Bob Nightengale, the Indians began informing teams about Lindor’s availability this past week. The Jays were one of four potential landing spots mentioned alongside the New York Mets, New York Yankees and Los Angeles Angels. Other teams will be added in the coming weeks, with negotiations expected to stretch deep into the off-season.

The dilemma isn’t whether the Jays should take a run at Lindor. Obviously, they should. He’s coming off a down season, but he is a franchise-altering player who has two Gold Gloves, a pair of Silver Sluggers and three top-10 finishes in MVP voting on his resumé. He’s one of the most exciting infielders in the game and the only reason he’ll be traded is money.

Toronto has the prospect capital to make a deal happen and should have the money, too. Lindor is projected to earn upwards of $22 million (U.S.) in his final year of arbitration, a figure the Jays could absorb with a payroll that currently sits at $75 million to $80 million, including non-guaranteed contracts and left-hander Robbie Ray’s new one-year deal worth $8 million. For context, the 2020 payroll hovered around $112 million, including $14 million owed to Troy Tulowitzki.

But just because the Jays can afford Lindor doesn’t mean they should empty their wallets to make it happen.

This will have to be a pursuit with limits, and if it leads to a second-place finish so be it. The goal should be trying to take advantage of a depressed market to acquire a star player at a reasonable cost. What the Jays can’t afford to do is mortgage too much of the future when there are still other areas that need to be addressed.

....................

There are two scenarios at play here: a team makes an offer without any guarantees that Lindor — 27 next Saturday — will stick around long term, or a club reaches a verbal agreement with Cleveland and is granted permission to work out a long-term contract before the trade is finalized. The first option will be expensive, the second will cost even more.

The Jays shouldn’t be prepared to give up a whole lot for one year of Lindor. If Cleveland could be swayed by a package that includes prospects such as Alek Manoah, Orelvis Martinez, Gabriel Moreno, Anthony Kay, Thomas Hatch or Ryan Borucki — and maybe, just maybe, Jordan Groshans — then by all means have at it. The signature guys, though? No thanks, and that’s probably what it would take.

The conversation is different if there’s a sense Lindor is open to a long-term deal Toronto deems acceptable. Vladimir Guerrero Jr., Bo Bichette and Nate Pearson would still be off limits. Top prospects Austin Martin, Simeon Woods Richardson and Alejandro Kirk should be, too.

The rest? That’s up for debate. The Jays would have to think long and hard before moving someone like Cavan Biggio, but depending on the package he’s not someone who should be immediately ruled out. Lourdes Gurriel Jr. could be used as a chip, Jordan Romano too, and Groshans would be a lock to enter the conversation.

The framework is a complete guessing game until proposals are exchanged, which could happen as early as Monday’s virtual meetings among general managers. More realistically, talks won’t become serious for another month as teams prefer to get a feel for the free-agent market before diving too deep into trades.

 

[Discoverer]

I still have PTSD from Colorado shortstops.

They're almost done paying the last one, might as well grab another!

In all seriousness, and without looking into it at all, I have some genuine concerns about long-time Rockies players' ability to adjust to other teams.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

They're almost done paying the last one, might as well grab another!

In all seriousness, and without looking into it at all, I have some genuine concerns about long-time Rockies players' ability to adjust to other teams.

LeMahieu at least gives some hope.

 

[Drew311]

8 million is steep for Ray. They should have held that money for more impact moves. If the big fish don’t come here you still have other options that are cheaper/better than Ray.

 

[pylon17]

Re: Ray re-signs

Nice. I liked him more than Stripling actually.

 

[Anthrax442]

8 million is steep for Ray. They should have held that money for more impact moves. If the big fish don’t come here you still have other options that are cheaper/better than Ray.

better deal than roark

 

[Discoverer]

8 million is steep for Ray. They should have held that money for more impact moves. If the big fish don’t come here you still have other options that are cheaper/better than Ray.

They were always going to spend somewhere around that amount on a secondary piece for the rotation. It's probably a couple million higher than ideal, but if those couple million are enough to prevent them from making the impact moves we're hoping they make, then we have bigger problems.