It's Not The Water Or Culture, It's Your Forward Depth, Dummy.

Up the Irons

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Mar 9, 2008
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they were lazy in the hiring of Chiarelli, and he absolutely sunk this team.

their sloth was exposed when they drafted Pulju. they didnt kno this kid.

its not the culture of the roster, its the culture in the front office!!

its basic. THE MANAGEMENT IS LAZY!!!!!
 

oilexport

Registered User
Aug 29, 2010
2,037
651
Some good points I'm reading.

It seems like we always have huge holes to fill with question Mark's every year. When we fix a problem like center position, wingers suck. When we draft talent, we lack size and character. Trade a winger for d, big hole created.

Nicholson is right when he says they better do some interviews this time for the GM. That candidate better come with a bigger title attached. Big enough title that nobody can mess with them. Let's give Bob a chance, hope the OBC stay farther away yet.

Mact and Lowe should gtfo already, what an embarrassment to any 80's legacy they rode along for. How do these guys look in the mirror every day ?? Please just leave.
 

Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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still don't get it eh. wow. you're focusing too much on culture of JUST the players. it's not JUST the players. it's the ORGANIZATIONAL culture. if you don't fix it you'll continually have underachieving players, teams etc etc. doesn't matter if you somehow bring in 4 top 6 fwds and 2 top 4 d man, they and more importantly the team will still underachieve with this ORGANIZATIONAL culture. the organizational culture DOES and will affect long term and or short term player/team performances. also organizational culture determines what values and ideals of what players they should be bringing in in the first place and how they nurture and develop them.

we have no idea whether guys like looch, reider,strome, khaira brodziak, etc etc are way underachieving or playing to their level. it's very likely many players here are actually underachieving. we have no idea . reider, zero goals looking like a complete nothing player? come on. looch going from a 20 goal scorer to this in a SNAP of a finger? no i don't buy it... i agree i never wanted him here and saw the game passing him by but there's more to it than just the speed of the game.

your problem is you look at each player as individual and separate units. while talent is obviously important, it's the team unity and game that will bring out the most of each player. the sum is greater than it's parts. for all we know, reider under the right conditions can score 15-20 goals easily. same with strome. drake. etc etc etc.

i personally do think our talent is not good enough and needs upgrade BUT i think the more pressing issue is actual overall organizational culture. fix it first over the summer.

How do you fix the f***ing culture. Who's fault is it now? Lemme guess LEON is the problem, right? Oh wait he's scored in 12 straight games, better crawl out of his ass for a little while and keep that quiet. Better to wait for a little slump in his game and then jump all over him of course, that's how it works. So SICK of this garbage, how about this MANAGEMENT WINS A f***ING TRADE. AS IN UPGRADING THE ROSTER?

Not just having a hard-on for a player's "character"?

Maybe? Maybe that would work? Maybe they can try that for ONCE?

Enough with the stupid "audits" and "investigations" and blaming players for "attitude" when the management hasn't won a goddamn trade in what? FOUR YEARS? Lets maybe start with better management and stop with the endless blame game on "well dur hur, it must be the karaktar in da room!".

f*** this clueless management and f*** the culture excuse. Sorry if that comes of as pissed off, but I've had it with this same garbage being fed to us over and over again. Enough.
 
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MaxR11

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Mar 28, 2017
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How do you fix the ****ing culture. Jeezus so sick of this garbage, how about this MANAGEMENT WINS A ****ING TRADE. AS IN UPGRADING THE ROSTER?

Not just having a hard-on for a player's "character"?

Maybe? Maybe that would work? Maybe they can try that for ONCE?

Enough with the stupid "audits" and "investigations" and blaming players for "attitude" when the management hasn't won a goddamn trade in what? FOUR YEARS? Lets maybe start with better management and stop with the endless blame game on "well dur hur, it must be the karaktar in da room!".

seriously, you don't listen very well do you. your comprehension skills are quite subpar. you think when people talk about culture it's only about players with character. no, but yes that's definitely a PART of it. and i've said a million times over that management is part of and likely is in control of how the culture is for the room and organization but you seem to not understand or hear me. maybe try actually reading what i write rather than just ASSUMING things. whether you want to believe it or not, organizational culture is one of the big reasons this team has continued to struggle and will likely have moderate success that's inconsistent even if they bring in a bunch of talent. unless they bring in a whole new management that instills the right culture OR this current management group under a new GM has FINALLY learned from the mistakes they have made over the decade.

another example of culture is handling of young players. for example... Brendan Gallagher roomed with a solid character vet like Gorges and his wife when he was 20. he said it really helped him through his early years because he was young and when you're young like that you get into stupid s***. Gallagher is looked at as the heart of the Habs.

now, let's take a look at how a BAD organizational culture handles this... Oilers... hall and ebs allowed to live on their own and do stupid s***.... party til the wee hours.... terrible accountability. this kind of s*** pulls teams apart when your young guns cares more about partying than winning games. heck i think they had whintney room with hall.... and whitney was probably more immature than hall was. great culture bring in a d**** like whitney. letting your future (in hall and ebs) run amok with no discipline.

how are they handling jesse? who is he staying with. i'm guessing he's living on his own? if so again, just horrendous handling and development of a supposed highly touted prospect. terrible organizational culutre can trickle down into the room in this fashion. you got this messy a** s*** now being a distraction in the room which hurts the culture. you had hall being the way he was with no accountability and mentor that hurt the room in his time here.

this organization just flat out doesn't know how to handle the players. set proper rules that apply to everyone. set standards not only as a human being, not just a player. a good podcast on sport organizational culture talks about focusing too much on improving the player and not improving the human being. if you improve the human being you improve that person's overall abilities to achieve in all aspects including sports.
 
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Soundwave

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seriously, you don't listen very well do you. your comprehension skills are quite subpar. you think when people talk about culture it's only about players with character. no, but yes that's definitely a PART of it. and i've said a million times over that management is part of and likely is in control of how the culture is for the room and organization but you seem to not understand or hear me. maybe try actually reading what i write rather than just ASSUMING things. whether you want to believe it or not, organizational culture is one of the big reasons this team has continued to struggle and will likely have moderate success that's inconsistent even if they bring in a bunch of talent. unless they bring in a whole new management that instills the right culture OR this current management group under a new GM has FINALLY learned from the mistakes they have made over the decade.

another example of culture is handling of young players. for example... Brendan Gallagher roomed with a solid character vet like Gorges and his wife when he was 20. he said it really helped him through his early years because he was young and when you're young like that you get into stupid s***. Gallagher is looked at as the heart of the Habs.

now, let's take a look at how a BAD organizational culture handles this... Oilers... hall and ebs allowed to live on their own and do stupid s***.... party til the wee hours.... terrible accountability. this kind of s*** pulls teams apart when your young guns cares more about partying than winning games. heck i think they had whintney room with hall.... and whitney was probably more immature than hall was. great culture bring in a d**** like whitney. letting your future (in hall and ebs) run amok with no discipline.

how are they handling jesse? who is he staying with. i'm guessing he's living on his own? if so again, just horrendous handling and development of a supposed highly touted prospect. terrible organizational culutre can trickle down into the room in this fashion. you got this messy a** s*** now being a distraction in the room which hurts the culture. you had hall being the way he was with no accountability and mentor that hurt the room in his time here.

this organization just flat out doesn't know how to handle the players. set proper rules that apply to everyone. set standards not only as a human being, not just a player. a good podcast on sport organizational culture talks about focusing too much on improving the player and not improving the human being. if you improve the human being you improve that person's overall abilities to achieve in all aspects including sports.

I've read your posts quite well.

What "culture" really means is blame the team's better players. Because the team is not good so something must be "rotten" and that must be because there is some problem with the good players on the team.

That's really what "culture" means, you don't want to admit it outright though, but it's about taking out frustration for a team that doesn't play well on the better players, especially those that may have a louder personality, they are target no.1.

Hall and Eberle are hardly the first NHLers at age 18/19/20 to be allowed live on their own. That happens all the time in the NHL. Gaudreau goofed off and partied hard during Superbowl weekend, Matthews lives on his own, etc. etc.

Leon Draisaitl is now being set up as the "fall guy" to blame for this current team except people have shut up and backed up because he's playing like a freaking STUD the last month and no one wants to look stupid. They will wait for any lull in his game and jump all over him again. How is that fair? I'm sick and tired of it.

How can you have a good team when you haven't won a single trade in FOUR YEARS? How is that supposed to work? What culture "overcomes" that? How do you watch 70-80 goals evaporate off your roster and basically do nothing as a manager?

f*** this team their "investigations" and "audits" and f*** Nicholson for getting up on stage and looking like a dumb ass babbling on about "culture". Memo to Bobby Burgers: your management BLOWS you dumb ass. Chiarelli should've been fired a year ago, Mac T and Howson and Green shouldn't be here, period. That's your problem.

Everyone and their grandma in Edmonton was tap dancing on the streets claiming how great McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH, Klefbom, Nurse, Talbot's "culture" was just 18 months ago. They didn't magically become different people ... the GM built a roster where that performance was unsustainable (Letestu is the freaking PP trigger man) and then like a dumb ass did nothing to upgrade the roster for two seasons.
 
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MaxR11

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I've read your posts quite well.

What "culture" really means is blame the team's better players. Because the team is not good so something must be "rotten" and that must be because there is some problem with the good players on the team.

That's really what "culture" means, you don't want to admit it outright though, but it's about taking out frustration for a team that doesn't play well on the better players, especially those that may have a louder personality, they are target no.1.

Hall and Eberle are hardly the first NHLers at age 18/19/20 to be allowed live on their own. That happens all the time in the NHL. Gaudreau goofed off and partied hard during Superbowl weekend, Matthews lives on his own, etc. etc.

Leon Draisaitl is now being set up as the "fall guy" to blame for this current team except people have shut up and backed up because he's playing like a freaking STUD the last month and no one wants to look stupid. They will wait for any lull in his game and jump all over him again. How is that fair? I'm sick and tired of it.

How can you have a good team when you haven't won a single trade in FOUR YEARS? How is that supposed to work? What culture "overcomes" that? How do you watch 70-80 goals evaporate off your roster and basically do nothing as a manager?

**** this team their "investigations" and "audits".


wow, if that's what you got from what i've been saying for thee last month then you really aren't very bright. i've talked about managerial and overall organizational culture and that's what you interpret?

losing some trades is only a superficial part of vast issues. you're only looking at the very top few layers. it runs way deeper than that. i'm not going to waste my time trying to keep explaining it to you.
 

MaxR11

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Mar 28, 2017
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**** this team their "investigations" and "audits" and **** Nicholson for getting up on stage and looking like a dumb ass babbling on about "culture". Memo to Bobby Burgers: your management BLOWS you dumb ass. Chiarelli should've been fired a year ago, Mac T and Howson and Green shouldn't be here, period. That's your problem.

.
he's not wrong. and yes, management blows, this is why they NEED TO ALL GO AND WE NEED TO BRING INA NEW MANAGEMENT TO INSTILL A NEW CULTURE!!!! f***, it's exhausting trying to reason with you.
 

Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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wow, if that's what you got from what i've been saying for thee last month then you really aren't very bright. i've talked about managerial and overall organizational culture and that's what you interpret?

losing some trades is only a superficial part of vast issues. you're only looking at the very top few layers. it runs way deeper than that. i'm not going to waste my time trying to keep explaining it to you.

No it is most definitely NOT a superficial part of the issue.

You cannot lose 70-80 goals from your roster and just hand wave it away.

Everyone and their grandma was kissing this team's ass in Edmonton just 18 months ago for being great people, having the right stuff, etc. etc. They didn't become bad people in 18 months, that's bull shit.

The GM setup a team the over-relied on underskilled players (Maroon, Letestu, Talbot, Lucic), that started to crack and then the GM being the dumb ass that he is had no answers. He made bad trade after bad trade.

Calgary or Winnipeg are not top 10 teams if you remove 70+ goals from their forward depth. No way, no how. Their culture isn't any better than the Oilers ... their management most certainly is though. Lindholm addition to the Flames forward core has given them way more depth there than they had before.
 
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MaxR11

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No it is most definitely NOT a superficial part of the issue.

You cannot lose 70-80 goals from your roster and just hand wave it away.

Everyone and their grandma was kissing this team's ass in Edmonton just 18 months ago for being great people, having the right stuff, etc. etc. They didn't become bad people in 18 months, that's bull ****.

The GM setup a team the over-relied on underskilled players (Maroon, Letestu, Talbot, Lucic), that started to crack and then the GM being the dumb ass that he is had no answers. He made bad trade after bad trade.


ffs, i posted about this several posts ago. they united as a team for that one year and overachieved because they got rid of a polarizaing and hated (by some ) player. i even said i knew they would suck again the next year and that that success was temporay and a bit of an overachievment.
 

Soundwave

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ffs, i posted about this several posts ago. they united as a team for that one year and overachieved because they got rid of a polarizaing and hated (by some ) player. i even said i knew they would suck again the next year and that that success was temporay and a bit of an overachievment.

Nope. Bull shit. They got one last good season out of Lucic, but the rest of their depth played well that year.

Those players weren't skilled enough to maintain that though ... that was fool's gold. But that season showed perfectly well IF they had reasonable secondary scoring they could be a dangerous team.

But this is not now the fault of the players because their "culture got bad". No, this team if anything has too many "nice" people on it.

It's not their attitude or culture. It's grossly incompetent management. Which other team can say their GM has not brought in one large impact forward in 4 YEARS?

Seriously? Who can even say that? Show me another team that can make that claim? How can that not be a problem?

Montreal sucked last year ... they didn't change their "culture". Their GM went out and did some WORK acquiring two players in Domi and Tatar that have added 60 points each to the roster. This GM sat on his ass and opted to re-up Strome + sign a 20-30 point player in Reider instead of acquiring Mike Hoffman who was available. Guess which one of these stories has the happier ending for the GM? Nothing else changed there, not the coach, Price has still had a bit of a bad season by his standards and is no where close to earning his salary, Weber has been hurt half the year and hasn't gotten any younger or faster.
 
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Up the Irons

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I've read your posts quite well.

What "culture" really means is blame the team's better players. Because the team is not good so something must be "rotten" and that must be because there is some problem with the good players on the team.

That's really what "culture" means, you don't want to admit it outright though, but it's about taking out frustration for a team that doesn't play well on the better players, especially those that may have a louder personality, they are target no.1.

Hall and Eberle are hardly the first NHLers at age 18/19/20 to be allowed live on their own. That happens all the time in the NHL. Gaudreau goofed off and partied hard during Superbowl weekend, Matthews lives on his own, etc. etc.

Leon Draisaitl is now being set up as the "fall guy" to blame for this current team except people have shut up and backed up because he's playing like a freaking STUD the last month and no one wants to look stupid. They will wait for any lull in his game and jump all over him again. How is that fair? I'm sick and tired of it.

How can you have a good team when you haven't won a single trade in FOUR YEARS? How is that supposed to work? What culture "overcomes" that? How do you watch 70-80 goals evaporate off your roster and basically do nothing as a manager?

**** this team their "investigations" and "audits" and **** Nicholson for getting up on stage and looking like a dumb ass babbling on about "culture". Memo to Bobby Burgers: your management BLOWS you dumb ass. Chiarelli should've been fired a year ago, Mac T and Howson and Green shouldn't be here, period. That's your problem.

Everyone and their grandma in Edmonton was tap dancing on the streets claiming how great McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH, Klefbom, Nurse, Talbot's "culture" was just 18 months ago. They didn't magically become different people ... the GM built a roster where that performance was unsustainable (Letestu is the freaking PP trigger man) and then like a dumb ass did nothing to upgrade the roster for two seasons.

Dude, maybe this will help:

yes, Oilers management are blaming the players when they speak of culture and character.

but, in this discussion, right here right now, what we are trying to express to you (not what Oilers' management means, or what you think we mean, but what I (et al) am telling you what I mean) is that the Oilers Organizational, Managerial, Business 'Culture' IS. THE. PROBLEM!!!!!

this is completely separate from the culture of the actually players on the ice.

you see, the word 'culture' can be applied to more than the on ice product. it can be applied to more than hockey. its a pretty versatile word.

this is where my teenage daughter would say: Word.
 
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ThePhoenixx

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Winger production is a symptom, not the disease.

The defense is the disease. One injury and they are playing an AHL third pairing.
 

MaxR11

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here's another example of culture from krushell's sport performance podcast. i'll preface that results are obviously important at the end but a key key philosophy in successful sport culture is focusing on the PROCESS not the results. if you do this the results WILL eventually come.

i think there has been too much of a shift to results before process and that's dangerous when the team hasn't found it's culture and game yet. it's akin to putting the cart before the horse. you MUST build through proper processes of doing the right things, feeling the right way etc and your game and confidecne as a player and as the team will grow and success (a relative term) will follow.

this organization got into this mindset that we must win now now now and results are king.... we'll when you have such a young team with so many guys trying to learn the game (drake, pooly, yama, nurse, klef, khaira, even connor, nuge and drai--learning how to win etc... same with the last batch with hall ebs, nuge, gags etc) that kind of mind set and pressure can become toxic for them very quickly when the results don't come. they lose hope/confidence and sag very easily. things spiral out of control and they keep focusing on results instead of the step by step processes that GETS THEM THERE. this is culture of how the organization is handling things. it's not good and needs to change. it puts everyone on edge and no one is relaxed and everyone starts to play harder and harder but as INDIVIDUALS trying to get "results" the wrong way... cheating, expending excess energy at the wrong times, not making simple plays and beig patient etc etc etc.

i've gone through this in my younger days. when you're expected to score and you hit a slump whether due to confidence or just lack of energy etc. you start to focus too much on results, scoring goals and points and lose the process. building on things like making the right reads and passes, proper handling and control of the puck with patience instead of rushing things, being in the right spots all the time instead of floating and cheating for offence, shortening shifts, not skating around like a chicken with your head cut off and wasting energy (be patient but still put in effort more smartly), communication, making successful breakouts and short passes and support etc etc etc. all these things and more WILL get you back on track to not only personal success on the ice but team success as you become a cohesive unit instead of off doing your own thing (in which case things start to unravel because noone knows what anyone else is going to do and passes go astray, opposing players get left unchecked etc etc).

all this is culture in the room and organizational philosophies. and focusing on the process doesn't have to mean taking a whole season to figure out. it may or may not take longer but it could be as quick as building from week 1 of the season to week 5 and really gaining traction. we've seen many teams but through processes like this during the year and eventually rise in the standings into a good team.

so yes, i think due to immense pressure, this organization has lost it's focus on the all important processes that lead to success and has ruined the development of many young players and hurt the team.
 

GOilers88

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Saying culture isn't part of the problem when your franchise has been at the bottom of the league and known nothing but prolonged failure for 13 of 14 years despite turning over players, coaches, GM's like they're free even while having the best player in the league seems pretty short sighted to me. Especially when all the guys responsible for the above are all still employed and involved in any capacity and are the only people who haven't been turned over.
 
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GOilers88

#FreeMoustacheRides
Dec 24, 2016
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How do you fix the ****ing culture. Who's fault is it now? Lemme guess LEON is the problem, right? Oh wait he's scored in 12 straight games, better crawl out of his ass for a little while and keep that quiet. Better to wait for a little slump in his game and then jump all over him of course, that's how it works. So SICK of this garbage, how about this MANAGEMENT WINS A ****ING TRADE. AS IN UPGRADING THE ROSTER?

Not just having a hard-on for a player's "character"?

Maybe? Maybe that would work? Maybe they can try that for ONCE?

Enough with the stupid "audits" and "investigations" and blaming players for "attitude" when the management hasn't won a goddamn trade in what? FOUR YEARS? Lets maybe start with better management and stop with the endless blame game on "well dur hur, it must be the karaktar in da room!".

**** this clueless management and **** the culture excuse. Sorry if that comes of as pissed off, but I've had it with this same garbage being fed to us over and over again. Enough.
You clearly identified the roots of this organizations losing culture, you concisely traced them back to management and all of the fools who still make decisions, but then slap yourself in the face by saying culture isn't a problem. I'm actually at a loss for what to tell you. Someone else wanna take a stab at it? Maybe a picture? I can't draw.
 

McFlash97

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Oct 10, 2017
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Why are you guys arguing like you have some sort of control over what this trashy organization does. Scream, hoot, holler all you want, Nicholson, MacTavish, Howson, and Green aren't going anywhere anytime soon. If they dont go this crap will continue, especially the latter 3.
 
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TB12

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Apr 5, 2015
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HK, you might be right about a lot of stuff. And I do know the importance of culture. Not pro sport, but there’s no accident Golden Bears hockey has had the success they’ve had in their history. They have an amazing culture AND they bring in extremely talented players and get buy in.

But at this point, man, you’re like a religious zealot trying to shove religion down everyone’s throat. Every post is just the same. Can’t you guys agree to disagree and move on?
 
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The Nuge

Some say…
Jan 26, 2011
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Winger production is a symptom, not the disease.

The defense is the disease. One injury and they are playing an AHL third pairing.

This is utterly ridiculous. Look at our 6 best wingers.

Chiasson - Career high 35 points - On pace for 43
Khaira - Career high 21 points - On pace for 25
Kassian - Career high 29 points - On pace for 23
Lucic - Career high 62 points - On pace for 22
Rieder - Career high 37 points - On pace for 19
Rattie - Career high 9 points - On pace for 20

What are you expecting? Every single player to have a career year every season? We only have 3 wingers on the team who have ever even had a 30 point season. 3 wingers are on pace for career years, and 1 is on pace for his usual. Lucic and Rieder are the only players who aren’t producing, and Rieder fell off a cliff after the injuries, so that wasn’t a shock.
 

Soundwave

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This is utterly ridiculous. Look at our 6 best wingers.

Chiasson - Career high 35 points - On pace for 43
Khaira - Career high 21 points - On pace for 25
Kassian - Career high 29 points - On pace for 23
Lucic - Career high 62 points - On pace for 22
Rieder - Career high 37 points - On pace for 19
Rattie - Career high 9 points - On pace for 20

What are you expecting? Every single player to have a career year every season? We only have 3 wingers on the team who have ever even had a 30 point season. 3 wingers are on pace for career years, and 1 is on pace for his usual. Lucic and Rieder are the only players who aren’t producing, and Rieder fell off a cliff after the injuries, so that wasn’t a shock.

Yeah b ... bu .... but if the cooooltoooore was better maybe they could hit 70 points!

lol that line of thinking is dumb as shit. You're right the wingers are what they should be.
 

Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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Look at the Leafs last night ... down 0-3 ... no problem. They come back. They win 6-3.

Because they have forward DEPTH. It's not because Matthews or Nylander are better people or have better attitudes than McDavid and Draisaitl.

The Leafs are how the Oilers should have been built, multiple wave offence upfront, maybe not the greatest D but one or two mistakes doesn't sink them. A group that can have fun. Forcing a young team like this to now have to play "grinding, lock down hockey" is demoralizing, young players need to be able to play a bit free and loose.

Replace the Matthews and Nylander here and give them McDavid and Draisaitl and Connor and Leon are probably having the time of their life over there, here Matthews and Nylander would get frustrated very quickly with a team that can barely ever score more than 2 goals a game. And then some genius would probably be saying "gee, what's wrong with Matthews and Nylander, maybe their attitude isn't so good". It's not the freaking attitude, it's what they have around them talent wise.

If you're going to build around forwards, you need to be able to play an open, fun system of hockey. It's depressing to play here. 0-3 is auto loss, 0-2 is pretty much an auto loss too . Toronto's kids have fun, our kids are driven into the ground and asked to make up for like 6-7 guys who really can't carry their weight that the GM thought would be good here. And there is just as much pressure there, probably more to perform (their media isn't a bunch of cream puffs like they are in Edmonton).
 
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Soundwave

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Dude, maybe this will help:

yes, Oilers management are blaming the players when they speak of culture and character.

but, in this discussion, right here right now, what we are trying to express to you (not what Oilers' management means, or what you think we mean, but what I (et al) am telling you what I mean) is that the Oilers Organizational, Managerial, Business 'Culture' IS. THE. PROBLEM!!!!!

this is completely separate from the culture of the actually players on the ice.

you see, the word 'culture' can be applied to more than the on ice product. it can be applied to more than hockey. its a pretty versatile word.

this is where my teenage daughter would say: Word.

You're just co-opting the term then to mean "management" but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about what Bob Nicholson got on the stage.

When GMs/hockey ops people talk about "culture" they are saying the PLAYERS and basically trying to pass the buck onto their attitude. You admit that yourself in your own post. So that's what I'm talking about.

Whether you want to co-opt the term to mean management, that's a different issue. Just say "management", lol, you can have that discussion but that's not this discussion.

This group of players are perfectly nice, good people that want to succeed. They were perfectly nice 18 months ago when the city was falling all over themselves to kiss their asses and anoint them kings. They didn't in 18 months become bad people or lose the drive to play hockey.

They even seem to all like each other, that shootout win against Vancouver about a month ago, you see how psyched McDavid was hugging his teammates and how happy they were ... you can't "fake" that. The problem is not in the room attitude wise (read: "culture"). Its in the roster that's been built that is nice enough people, but cannot get the job done against NHL competition on a nightly basis.
 
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La Bamba

Tier 2 Fan
Aug 23, 2009
9,518
6,103
Lol at this "culture" talk. There is a supposed losing culture because the team lacks good players aka they f***ing suck at hockey. Nicholson sucks ass at his job so he just wants to blame it on culture

Want a good culture? Bring in some talented hockey players and problem solved. There's no other way around it
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
72,275
28,061
Lol at this "culture" talk. There is a supposed losing culture because the team lacks good players aka they ****ing suck at hockey. Nicholson sucks ass at his job so he just wants to blame it on culture

Want a good culture? Bring in some talented hockey players and problem solved. There's no other way around it

Yep. The Leafs don't have a better culture than us. They have a way better roster though.

Matthews pouted in the playoffs last year and Babcock had to fly out to Arizona and smooth things out after the season was done. Nylander was immature in how he held out, so don't tell me its because their "culture" is so great that they're better.

They can come back from 0-3 and win 6-3 because they have freaking double the forward depth we do. They can have fun and cruise to 100+ points every year basically, we can't because our GM was a moron. But we could have had that same type of team. They don't have a superstar blue line.
 
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ThePhoenixx

Registered User
Aug 7, 2005
9,411
6,027
This is utterly ridiculous. Look at our 6 best wingers.

Chiasson - Career high 35 points - On pace for 43
Khaira - Career high 21 points - On pace for 25
Kassian - Career high 29 points - On pace for 23
Lucic - Career high 62 points - On pace for 22
Rieder - Career high 37 points - On pace for 19
Rattie - Career high 9 points - On pace for 20

What are you expecting? Every single player to have a career year every season? We only have 3 wingers on the team who have ever even had a 30 point season. 3 wingers are on pace for career years, and 1 is on pace for his usual. Lucic and Rieder are the only players who aren’t producing, and Rieder fell off a cliff after the injuries, so that wasn’t a shock.
Utterly ridiculous? lol No need to get upset now.

I say it is a symptom and then you give me proof of the symptom.

Improve the defense and the wingers don't have to spend their time hugging the boards ready to chip it out when it gets rung around. Have a d-man that can throw a pass and maybe the wingers can accept a pass while skating. Have a d-man that can shoot so when the winger passes it back to the point there is a chance his shot might go in. Maybe then they don't have to be a superstar to create points.

But nah, let's instead get rid of a d-man and replace him with a winger as they are wont to do on the mains. Keep the defense weak as crap so that one injury sinks a season.


The Oilers are going to suck as long as they dress AHL pairings and then overplay the other ones. Improve the defense. Then see what you have for wingers.

Spend the money/assets on defense.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
72,275
28,061
Utterly ridiculous? lol No need to get upset now.

I say it is a symptom and then you give me proof of the symptom.

Improve the defense and the wingers don't have to spend their time hugging the boards ready to chip it out when it gets rung around. Have a d-man that can throw a pass and maybe the wingers can accept a pass while skating. Have a d-man that can shoot so when the winger passes it back to the point there is a chance his shot might go in. Maybe then they don't have to be a superstar to create points.

But nah, let's instead get rid of a d-man and replace him with a winger as they are wont to do on the mains. Keep the defense weak as crap so that one injury sinks a season.


The Oilers are going to suck as long as they dress AHL pairings and then overplay the other ones. Improve the defense. Then see what you have for wingers.

Spend the money/assets on defense.

You don't need to build a superstar defence to be good though. I know people don't want it brought up, but it is absolutely true that the Leafs are basically what the Oilers should have been and could have been.

Hockey gods gifted us the same opportunities to have a similar caliber team and we were robbed of that by stupid decision making from our management. Plain and simple.

We should be cruising to 105 points this year like the Leafs are. They're not even having some magical season where everything is going right for them (Matthews injured for a big chunk of the year, Nylander Gate hanging over the team), and they can pull 105 points outta their ass like its not a problem. Meanwhile here, it's a Titanic struggle to even hit 85 points.
 

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