Islanders -- Lighthouse project
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The former is a no-go because the entire point of the second New York team in MLS would be to have one in the city proper and easier to reach from public transport. From what I can tell, LIRR is no better than PATH.
The second and third depend on money... the NHL team and arena would most assuredly make more, but the soccer team and stadium would be much cheaper to build and operate.
The last is the least likely, imho
kombayn
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- May 6, 2009
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Update: Kansas City and Queens the back-up plan. Development group is working on arena for Islanders.
http://www.kctv5.com/sports/24244913/detail.html
http://www.kctv5.com/sports/24244913/detail.html
Jeffrey93
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- Nov 7, 2007
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Funny that on a related story linked on that page a beat writer and former Islander Communications VP says "The Islanders are not going to move to Kansas City". Figures they very well might move but to another spot in New York.
CREW99AW
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- Mar 12, 2002
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Botta was interviewed by the ex-New Yorker,who's now a KC sports reporter.He says he knew the guy when he lived in NY.Botta politely explained that he didn't see the NYI moving to KC.The reporter cames back with a comment, about wishing the team wouldn't 'use' KC.
Are the fans and the press in KC really surprised,that owners in other cities use another city as a negoiating(sp) ploy?
C'mon
CREW99AW
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- Mar 12, 2002
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Murray and the ToH's anti-development tactic(the huge scaleback of the Lighthouse project),comes at a time the County is facing a $286m budget deficit.It isn't sitting too well with the leaders of her own party.
Some fans have speculated that she wants to drive Wang away,then have another developer step in and build something smaller,that her NIMBY crowd would prefer.Instead she's turning off other big developers with her comments/actions.
http://www.newsday.com/long-island/nassau/town-s-coliseum-plan-called-not-profitable-1.2098753?qr=1
"Now, you have to go back and sharpen your pencils and say, 'How can I make money on this?' " Cantor said. "And he [Wang] can make money on this. . . . It's still economically viable."
"The yields just aren't there," said developer Vincent Polimeni, who heads Polimeni International in Garden City. Would Polimeni return to the site to build there, if Lighthouse Project developer Charles Wang pulled out? "I wouldn't," Polimeni said. "There are a thousand questions and there's not a simple answer."
"Anytime you reduce by 50 percent the buildable footage - and it makes no difference whether it's [residential] units or retail or office - it's going to reduce the land price," said Ed Blumenfeld of Blumenfeld Development Corp., which also bid on the initial RFP. "It's going to reduce the value of the land and ultimately, it's not economically viable."
Others pointed to the price of building parking as a key concern. The town's plan allows for 12,000 parking spaces - all in garages. Developers pegged the cost at anywhere from $10,000 to $20,000 per space - or up to $240 million for the parking alone - without producing significant revenue.
What's more, some developers said they wouldn't start a commercial project of any kind right now, especially since the area has an 18.5 percent commercial vacancy rate.
Some fans have speculated that she wants to drive Wang away,then have another developer step in and build something smaller,that her NIMBY crowd would prefer.Instead she's turning off other big developers with her comments/actions.
http://www.newsday.com/long-island/nassau/town-s-coliseum-plan-called-not-profitable-1.2098753?qr=1
"Now, you have to go back and sharpen your pencils and say, 'How can I make money on this?' " Cantor said. "And he [Wang] can make money on this. . . . It's still economically viable."
"The yields just aren't there," said developer Vincent Polimeni, who heads Polimeni International in Garden City. Would Polimeni return to the site to build there, if Lighthouse Project developer Charles Wang pulled out? "I wouldn't," Polimeni said. "There are a thousand questions and there's not a simple answer."
"Anytime you reduce by 50 percent the buildable footage - and it makes no difference whether it's [residential] units or retail or office - it's going to reduce the land price," said Ed Blumenfeld of Blumenfeld Development Corp., which also bid on the initial RFP. "It's going to reduce the value of the land and ultimately, it's not economically viable."
Others pointed to the price of building parking as a key concern. The town's plan allows for 12,000 parking spaces - all in garages. Developers pegged the cost at anywhere from $10,000 to $20,000 per space - or up to $240 million for the parking alone - without producing significant revenue.
What's more, some developers said they wouldn't start a commercial project of any kind right now, especially since the area has an 18.5 percent commercial vacancy rate.
1) Brooklyn doesn't want the islanders. Mod edit: Brooklyn is Ranger country.
2) Queens is another bad idea. You have to build a another new arena. The Mets and islanders don't share the same fans. Queens is Ranger country.
3) In fact, there are more Ranger fans on Long Island than islander fans.
4) The Lighthouse Project is insane for everyone except Wang. There are already two huge 15 story office buildings across the street from the Colesium. Putting two 30+ story office buildings plus more shopping centers with a new arena would ensure that there would be a long backup on the Meadowbrook 10 hours a day. And don't forget that Hofstra and 15,000 students are less than a mile away.
The Colesium may not be a modern arena by today's standards but there's nothing wrong with it if you want to go to watch a game. You can get good seats (naturally) and see fine. The lack of super luxury boxes don't keep people away.
The main problem for the islanders is the same problem that the devils have: The Rangers.
The NYC hockey area is divided into three parts. The devils have northern NJ, the islanders have Long Island, and the Rangers have everything.
There are more Ranger fans in NJ and Long Island than either team has in its home base and geographically they can't cross. No New Jerseyan is going to root for the islanders and no Long Islander is going to root for the devils.
Want to build a casino instead of the Lighthouse? Lots of luck. A casino dead center in a major metropolitan area? Maybe in 30 years after all the lawsuits and injunctions.
I generally don't like to see teams move but moving would be the best thing for the islanders. Take a look at the devils. Much success and no one cares. If the devils had the lousy teams that the islanders have had the last 15 years they'd probably be gone too.
2) Queens is another bad idea. You have to build a another new arena. The Mets and islanders don't share the same fans. Queens is Ranger country.
3) In fact, there are more Ranger fans on Long Island than islander fans.
4) The Lighthouse Project is insane for everyone except Wang. There are already two huge 15 story office buildings across the street from the Colesium. Putting two 30+ story office buildings plus more shopping centers with a new arena would ensure that there would be a long backup on the Meadowbrook 10 hours a day. And don't forget that Hofstra and 15,000 students are less than a mile away.
The Colesium may not be a modern arena by today's standards but there's nothing wrong with it if you want to go to watch a game. You can get good seats (naturally) and see fine. The lack of super luxury boxes don't keep people away.
The main problem for the islanders is the same problem that the devils have: The Rangers.
The NYC hockey area is divided into three parts. The devils have northern NJ, the islanders have Long Island, and the Rangers have everything.
There are more Ranger fans in NJ and Long Island than either team has in its home base and geographically they can't cross. No New Jerseyan is going to root for the islanders and no Long Islander is going to root for the devils.
Want to build a casino instead of the Lighthouse? Lots of luck. A casino dead center in a major metropolitan area? Maybe in 30 years after all the lawsuits and injunctions.
I generally don't like to see teams move but moving would be the best thing for the islanders. Take a look at the devils. Much success and no one cares. If the devils had the lousy teams that the islanders have had the last 15 years they'd probably be gone too.
Last edited by a moderator:
Mod note: There will be no out-of-area relocation talk regarding the Islanders until such time as there is news that relocation WILL occur.
It's fine to mention that borough X or city Y would be good/bad to move to for business reasons A, B, C, etc.
However, it is not appropriate to start bashing other teams/fans.
It's fine to mention that borough X or city Y would be good/bad to move to for business reasons A, B, C, etc.
However, it is not appropriate to start bashing other teams/fans.
Space Herpe
Arch Duke of Raleigh
- Aug 29, 2008
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I've been saying that for months/years.
The ToH has two choices.
1) Keep the Isles and let Wang develop the land.
or
2) The Isles walk and, eventually, someone will develop the land.
So, you are left with this.
Develop and keep the Isles.
Develop and lose the Isles.
Keeping the Isles means more money for the local communities.
***
Also, If #2 happens, what will go there in 15-20 years?
Strip malls?
Apartments and a school?
A neighbor hood?
***
It makes no sense to me.
Steve55
Registered User
As far as Lighthouse and casino is concerned, you do have some valid points. But to say Queens is a bad idea would fall on deaf ears of the Wilpons and Wang.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/13/sports/13wilpon.html
Jeff Wilpon, the Mets’ chief operating officer, said he talked to the Islanders’ owner, Charles Wang, about building an arena near Citi Field and possibly buying the money-losing Islanders.
“We’ve had discussions with the Islanders — in addition to those we’ve had with Major League Soccer — about building a sports/entertainment facility near Citi Field,” the Mets said in a statement.
In 1972, when the Islanders joined the N.H.L., the $4.5 million territorial fee they paid the Rangers gave them the right to occupy only Nassau County. But a 1986 amendment to the agreement allowed the Islanders to move to Queens and Brooklyn, and within Nassau and Suffolk counties.
http://nhl.fanhouse.com/2010/06/14/mets-owners-working-with-real-estate-firm-on-queens-arena-for-is
The owners of the New York Mets have begun discussions with a leading real estate firm to strategize for a potential arena in Queens that would house the NHL's New York Islanders, an industry source has told FanHouse.
Jones Lang LaSalle, the project management company for the upcoming $775-850 million renovation of Madison Square Garden, has begun work on a feasibility study for an Islanders arena at Willets Point -- the property surrounding Citi Field, the second-year home of the Mets.
"This is beyond the preliminary stage," said the source. "You don't bring in a big hitter like JLL unless you're serious. This tells me the Islanders and Mets have made progress in a partnership to take the hockey team to Queens. If Charles Wang and Nassau can't cut a deal, this will be a great option."
No one has seen how having 2 teams WITHIN NYC limits will affect the Rangers. I would say after 20 years of the Isles moving into Queens, Queens will have more Islanders fans than the Rangers fans. As far as Brooklyn is concerned, there will be a lot of fans cheering for the Isles. As long as the Isles add Brooklyn and Queens to their logo and market it to Brooklyn and Queens, people will follow.
kdb209
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- Jan 26, 2005
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Having lived right on the Nassau/Queens border before and during the Dynasty years, I can tell you that there were many Islander fans in Queens - I knew as many (if not more) Isles fans there than Rangers'. Islanders vs Rangers typically fell on the Mets' side of the great New York Mets/Jets vs Yankees/Giants divide.
Given time and success, there is no reason the Isles couldn't convert a significant portion of the Queen's fanbase. They did that in less than a decade in the 70's.
http://americancity.org/columns/entry/2394/
Editorial on the lies of economic prosperity that follows new/revitalized stadium/arena, with surrounding retail/residential, development, with an interesting look at a potential NBA relocation (NJ Nets) into Brooklyn (which has been one of the sites mentioned for relocated Islanders, post NVMC).
Editorial on the lies of economic prosperity that follows new/revitalized stadium/arena, with surrounding retail/residential, development, with an interesting look at a potential NBA relocation (NJ Nets) into Brooklyn (which has been one of the sites mentioned for relocated Islanders, post NVMC).
KevFu
Registered User
What's interesting is that Charles Wang is asking for the right to build a money printing press at his expense, and the Town of Hempstead has instead urged for taxpayer dollars to just build Wang a new arena for the Islanders.
IceAce
Strait Trippin'
CREW99AW
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I don't know if this was posted yet.
I'm guessing the Republican leaders facing a huge budget deficit,put pressure on Murray,forcing her back to the bargaining table.
Thanks to gotroot801 for posting the important parts:
http://www.newsday.com/long-island/...agreement-on-nassau-hub-development-1.2197381
A month after it seemed Nassau County Executive Edward Mangano and Hempstead Town Supervisor Kate Murray couldn’t get further apart, the two Republican leaders are now trying to find common ground.
Mangano and Murray have been in talks in recent weeks, Mangano spokesman Michael Martino confirmed.
While Mangano previously cricitized Murray’s development for the land surrounding Nassau Coliseum as “economically unviable,†the goal of the talks, sources said, is to find a solution that would work for the town, county and New York Islanders owner Charles Wang.
And, according to Long Island Regional Planning Council chairman John Cameron, Murray now appears more flexible on issues of density and building height.
I'm guessing the Republican leaders facing a huge budget deficit,put pressure on Murray,forcing her back to the bargaining table.
Thanks to gotroot801 for posting the important parts:
http://www.newsday.com/long-island/...agreement-on-nassau-hub-development-1.2197381
A month after it seemed Nassau County Executive Edward Mangano and Hempstead Town Supervisor Kate Murray couldn’t get further apart, the two Republican leaders are now trying to find common ground.
Mangano and Murray have been in talks in recent weeks, Mangano spokesman Michael Martino confirmed.
While Mangano previously cricitized Murray’s development for the land surrounding Nassau Coliseum as “economically unviable,†the goal of the talks, sources said, is to find a solution that would work for the town, county and New York Islanders owner Charles Wang.
And, according to Long Island Regional Planning Council chairman John Cameron, Murray now appears more flexible on issues of density and building height.
CREW99AW
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There's one more expansion team to be awarded and quite a few cities fighting for that one expansion team:Atlanta,Detroit,Rochester,NYC,Miami,Ottawa,Birmingham,
Portland,St. Paul,Phoenix.
I think the Wilpons have a stronger chance of reaching an agreement with Wang,then winning that last expansion team.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansion_of_Major_League_Soccer
Atlanta is a BAD sports town. Detroit might work but I've heard nothing in regards to local ownership. Rochester is too small a town for MLS, they are staying in D2. Miami failed the first time because Ft. Lauderdale is not Miami. They would need a downtown stadium. Ottawa wants to build a stadium in the middle of nowhere next to the Corel Centre. Not ideal. Birmingham is Birmingham. Portland is a done deal already for MLS. Minneapolis/St. Paul, I have no idea. Phoenix is not the best of sports towns. St. Louis which you did not mention would be tough competition with NYC 2 for MLS.
MayDay
Registered User
If they are really trying to expand that much, that fast, then that league is going to implode.
I just can't see how it can possibly sustain such a rapid expansion. They are going to get a boost for a few years from each new expansion team they let in, like they have in Toronto, Seattle, and Philly. But once the novelty factor of all these new franchises wears off, it's going to be a disaster.
MayDay
Registered User
Really?
In my experience, there's a lot of overlap between these two fanbases. Especially on Long Island.
The most common groups that go together seem to be Rangers-Yankees-Giants on the one hand, and Isles-Mets-Jets on the other.
Of course, there's a lot of variation.
worstfaceoffmanever
These Snacks Are Odd
No, Garber wants 24 teams maximum (see question six). New York will almost definitely get the 20th team in 2013, and from there, things will likely go much slower as the league looks for committed owners it those markets. They're also supposedly exploring moving Chivas to San Diego or Riverside/San Bernadino to cover an additional prospective market.
For future expansion, they're looking at...
St. Louis
Atlanta
San Antonio
San Diego
Detroit
Miami or Tampa
Milwaukee (supposedly, I think this is pretty unlikely)
Ottawa (Melnyk was supposedly interested in a team, but it's more likely that it will be a D2 side playing at Frank Clair)
If ownership with deep pockets and an excellent stadium setup (meaning the owners also control the venue and are able to book other events there), then MLS will add beyond those 20 clubs, but there is no guarantee.
I see no reason why the league would be in trouble. All the owners have pretty deep pockets, every team (except D.C.) either have a club-owned venue or plans for such a venue by 2012, and all but Seattle and New England will have soccer-specific venues. Payrolls stay low and TV coverage is slowly improving on basic cable packages. The league plays a very marketable style of attacking soccer. Not to mention the remarkably inexpensive tickets that many markets have.
As long as the Islanders stay on Long Island, whether it's a renovated NVMC or the Barclays Center or an yet-to-be-constructed venue in Queens, I'll be satisfied. They've made too much history on the Island to leave because of politics.
CREW99AW
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I have to admit that I don't follow MLS.What I've picked up is from several articles and fan message boards.
I've read that FIFA doesn't want large leagues.Leagues with more then 20-24 teams.
MayDay
Registered User
Since when have North American sports leagues paid much attention to the international confederations of any sport?
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