Is there any team that would benefit from a Quantity/Quality trade?

[HawkeyTalkMan]

I have never seen fans of a team in 1st place in the league try to make as many moves as Montreal fans are right now.

There is a difference between being a 1st place team regular season and seeing a team that will have the right makeup to win a cup and I think MTL fans are just smart to that.

SO much hinges on Carey Price being absolutely lights out and as solid as he is, thats building a house of cards, because as evident when he is off or injured, MTL is not a very good team

Dallas won the west last year but their blue line and net were mediocre to awful. Were they good enough to win a round or two? Sure. Were they good enough to win a cup? I dont think anyone thought that

 

[slimbob8]

I know those trade proposals always gets a ton of criticism. So instead of proposing an offer I'm just gonna throw something like :

Is there any team that would actually trade one of their stars for a package like 3x 1st, Prospect A, Prospect B + Roster player?

3x 1st, Sergachev, Sherback, Plekanec/Beaulieu? What can you get with that kind of offer?

Feel free to adjust it with your own team, You know it better than I do.

I know it's not very realistic. But so what we're on hfboards after all.

You're definitely correct with that statement. Seems like almost all trade offers of that type on here get the typical "we're not interested quantity" response which I find pretty amusing because in reality, waaaay more trades end up as quantity for quality trades as opposed to quality for quality. It's just easier to make that sort of deal in real life.

 

[Menzinger]

Any team up against the cap - the Hawks could defiantly use an influx of young cheap assets.

 

[Jerzey Devil]

There is a difference between being a 1st place team regular season and seeing a team that will have the right makeup to win a cup and I think MTL fans are just smart to that.

SO much hinges on Carey Price being absolutely lights out and as solid as he is, thats building a house of cards, because as evident when he is off or injured, MTL is not a very good team

Dallas won the west last year but their blue line and net were mediocre to awful. Were they good enough to win a round or two? Sure. Were they good enough to win a cup? I dont think anyone thought that

I guess that's a pretty good point but I've seen some pretty big (formerly untouchable) names being thrown around these days. I guess the Subban trade made it so pretty much no one is untouchable.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Any team up against the cap - the Hawks could defiantly use an influx of young cheap assets.

Hawks would not do that unless they had an in-house replacement ready to be able to move Seabrook

Unfortunately they dont though

Johns was the only potential prospect, and they tethered him to Sharp to move his full cap hit for Daley and Garbutt, which wasnt that terrible of a deal considering how good Daley was for PIT, but they grossly misused him and Q was stubborn on him, and Garbutt was pretty decent too but Q put him in his doghouse

 

[Siludin]

Yes. But that's a very big if. Given Vancouver's history, I would say no. If Vancouver owners were the kind to eat huge retention, Schneider would be their goalie still.

Not when that retention comes with term and affects your salary cap by millions of dollars for for many many seasons. It's not even close to a valid comparison.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Teams entering or in the early stages of a rebuild. So possibly the Canucks, if the Sedins were to waive, but they are a special case as they need to be traded together. It would depend on the pieces going back as well. I can't think of any others.

 

[Sangoku Galchenyuk]

Yeah the Sedins come to mind. Even though I can't see any team offering a kings ransom for them.

Tavares could be in the discussion. But you know, the islanders are a mysterious team managed by an even more mysterious Gm. Also there's that owner would doesnt give a **** about what going on in here.

I can only hope the guy gets moved

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Yeah the Sedins come to mind. Even though I can't see any team offering a kings ransom for them.

Tavares could be in the discussion. But you know, the islanders are a mysterious team managed by an even more mysterious Gm. Also there's that owner would doesnt give a **** about what going on in here.

I can only hope the guy gets moved

No way. Isles are trash without JT

 

[Hansen]

Valid point.

You just wonder when VAN has the epiphany that its time to tear it down and eat some real world dollars today to build for future success

If we had a good GM absolutely. This is a team that is at the ****ing cap and look at how bad we are, look at how bad we were last year, owners still okay'd hitting the cap. The issue is that the owner will only spend money if it's targeted at making playoffs for those sweet sweet 2 home games of playoff revenue. If we had a good GM/Pres who could convince Aquilini then absolutely, they've put tons of money into the team.

 

[Sangoku Galchenyuk]

No way. Isles are trash without JT

The thing is, they're trash even with JT.

Whats the point in goin forward. Nothing good will come out of this. Unless theres a major shakeup, just like Buffalo did.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

The thing is, they're trash even with JT.

Whats the point in goin forward. Nothing good will come out of this. Unless theres a major shakeup, just like Buffalo did.

I mean, he is 26. Way too early to throw in the towel

 

[Sangoku Galchenyuk]

I mean, he is 26. Way too early to throw in the towel

Yeah, you're right. I just think it's a pain to see him surrounded by Ladd and... nothing else really

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Yeah, you're right. I just think it's a pain to see him surrounded by Ladd and... nothing else really

I dont get that Ladd contract one bit

 

[SensNation613]

I have never seen fans of a team in 1st place in the league try to make as many moves as Montreal fans are right now.

They aren't a very good team despite their place in the standings. This is largely due to Carey Price so I think they would be smart to add better players around him.

Their core outside of Price is currently: Pacioretty, Gallagher, Plekanec, Markov, Galchenyuk, Radulov, Petry, and Weber. If you look at other teams like Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh and Washington, they have a lackluster core outside their best player.

Penguins without Crosby: Malkin, Kessel, Hornqvist, Letang, Daley, Dumoulin, Bonino, Murray and Hagelin.
Capitals without Ovi: Holtby, Carlson, Niskanen, Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Alzner, Johansson and Oshie.
Lightning without Stamkos: Hedman, Stralman, Palat, Johnson, Drouin, Bishop, Killorn and Kucherov.

Habs have a franchise player in Price but the players surrounding him aren't good enough for a cup IMO. The only way they win is if everything goes right and I just don't see it happening. Making a move to acquire a top level talent makes sense for them because they won't draft a player like Price anytime soon so their time is now. Also, I feel the same way about Ottawa and Karlsson so my view isn't any different regarding my own team.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Grigs was good last season as a 3rd liner (not sure on this season)
Zadorov is playing top pair with Johnson
Not sure how Compher is doing

And not bothering to count what McGinn got back.

Not ideal still for a player of O'Reilly's caliber, but still not a bad trade imo.

Some corrections here..

Grigorenko actually played well in the top six in the later half of last season. This year he is not starting out well offensively as we hoped, but is actually playing well defensively as a bottom six center.

You also have to add Greer and Meloche to the mention there.

O'Reilly + UFA McGinn

for

Zadorov + Girogrenko + Compher + Greer + Meloche

So yeah we're mostly happy with it.

It sucks because we lost the best player currently from the deal. But he wasn't staying regardless so the pieces we got really helped with our depth and in a year or two we will really start seeing the full effect of the trade once Compher makes the big club. Grigo hasn't had a great start but he is a solid piece for us.

Greer was an indirect result of the draft pick we recieved from them and has had a crazy fast development and produced his first career NHL point last night for us and Zadorov is looking very good.

Think most avs fans actually like the trade .

I think Zadorov by himself may make the trade worth it. Not that many 21 year olds are playing on the top pairing at that age. He's had some young mistakes, but him and EJ's numbers are damn good, with EJ actually being the one who makes most of the bone headed mistakes pushing too hard offensively.

These types of trades can work for both teams, but it takes a large collection of major assets.

I think most Buffalo fans are actually happy with the trade as well.

 

[Headshot77]

Honestly, I'd say Ottawa with Erik Karlsson, or the Islanders with Tavares. All-star players on teams that would otherwise be bottom-10, but their presence lifts them up into mediocrity. It's like how Toronto got rid of Kessel, tanked, then got better elite talent.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Honestly, I'd say Ottawa with Erik Karlsson, or the Islanders with Tavares. All-star players on teams that would otherwise be bottom-10, but their presence lifts them up into mediocrity. It's like how Toronto got rid of Kessel, tanked, then got better elite talent.

No chance.

Melnyk is so damn cheap. Karlsson is a $10 million dollar player making $6.5. He has extreme value there and wouldnt move him

 

[Djp]

Quantity for quality is a difference depending on the situation...If you are trading a player who is a UFA to be or 1+ yr left its inherently a quanity for quality trade so this really doesnt count.

If the player has term/team control left for 2 full years or more left then you can talk about quantity for quality trades.

When would a team give up quality for quantity where its not a 1+ yr/UFA to be rental deal...

1. up against the cap wheere a team has a bunch of prospects to pay.

2. expansion draft coming up where teams have talent exposed

3. The concern of salary and player roles. A team could say be 3 deep at a positon like center or wing or defense. If the 3rd line winger is really good that would be a top line winger on 30% of the teams in the league you could trade him for players so you dont have a salary imbalance where you are paying too much for a 3rd line winger who may not put up the production numbers due to less ice team. An example of this is with Johnson and TB. He looks like he would be 3rd line center in tampa but would be good on other teams. Does TB want to pay him such a high salary given their cap situation or would it benefit them to trade him for exempt players?

 

[indigobuffalo]

Leafs moved a bunch of scrubs to NYI last year for Grabner.

It depends on the situation.

So long as it makes sense for both teams.

Another Leaf example is Phaneuf, both coming in and going out.

In each case Dion was the best piece to the deal but obviously the GMs saw value in the cap relief and potential in spreading depth throughout the organization.

 

[indigobuffalo]

I dont get that Ladd contract one bit

They lost in the playoffs despite holding a lead so the GM goes and signs a multi-Cup winning FA.

That was kinda obvious. :/

 

[Djp]

Grigs was good last season as a 3rd liner (not sure on this season)
Zadorov is playing top pair with Johnson
Not sure how Compher is doing

And not bothering to count what McGinn got back.

Not ideal still for a player of O'Reilly's caliber, but still not a bad trade imo.

This deal is a different category as I metioned above because it was for a 1+ UFA to be player so inherently those deals are going to be quantitiy for quality deald because the team wants to get something for a player rather than see him walk.

My feeling on the deal I think they gave up to much for a rental player, but the price was fine if they knew they would have him signed.

Buffalo traded MCGinn for a pick which was used to stry and sign Vesey.

They signed Vesey it would give this deal an interesting spin.

 

[Djp]

Lets say Buffalo did not trade for Kne/Bogo and ROR...what would they look like?? assume they signed the same UFAs

Moulson-Eichel-Reinhart
Ennis-Grigorenko-Okposo
Foligno-Larsson-Gionta
xxx- Girgensons-Armia

Kulikov-Myers
Zads-Risto
Gorges-McCabe

other forwards:

Lemieux, Compher, Baptise, Bailey, Baptiste, Fasching, Carrier, Hurley


There are the picks not dealt. 3 picks from 21-31 i 2015 draft

This is 13 forwards drafted in 2011-2013. Such depth would hamper development of them all.

So the big loss they made in the trades was trading Zadorov.


Buffalo made the following deals when they were unloading their free agents:

Pominville for Hackett, Larsson,2013 1st, 2014 2nd
Miller/ott for Halak, stewart, 2015 1st, 2016 3rd, Carrier
Vanel for 2015 1st, 2015 2nd+Moulson (traded for 2 2nds)

 

[mikeyp24]

CBJ have done it with twice recently one getting quantity and one getting quality and both times I feel it worked out for both sides. We got dubi and arty party for Nash plus a 1st and Dubi is now wearing an A and I think it was very close to being the C it was going to be him or Foligno and that was right after Nick's huge year. Arty was among for us but at that time (it's weird saying this now because it is definitely not this way now) we had a big strength at C so he became tradable and he lead the way to us getting Saad. Speaking of Saad he is the piece we gave up quantity for by giving up AA, Dano, Morin, and I'm pretty sure another player or pick. Bloodhurst? Maybe that was his name. Anyways Saad went on to have a career year and is playing great still for us and AA is at a ppg pace for Chicago this year and was great last year while Dano was moved for Ladd and a playoff run for them but I've heard Dano is looking great on the jets. I'm pretty sure Nash had a huge year the year he was traded or the next. But he has.still been great for the Rangers. Basically it worked.out both ways.

Also recently the Kessel trade was similar I actually thought TOR got ripped off but Kapanen has been playing well in the AHL and TOR fans seem to like him so I'm assuming they think it was a win win deal? We know Pens fans will say win because Kessel held that cup nice and high for them.


Editing to say I think a team that could use this would be a TOR again for JVR, a MTL with Patches, ARI with Hanzel, DET could use giving up some quantity because they have some good but not great pieces to be flipped for something better. MIN with a D man of their choice could bring in some forwards. ANA moving Vats maybe.

There are a lot of teams that could use it. Any team with 1 older value player and only young guys and are not competing this year could do it or a team with over stock at a posistion and lack of another can be great bennifett. People don't LIKE them but they are generally what actually works out best for you.

 

[BlueBaron]

Perhaps Chicago and Seabrook? Trade him for a bunch of ELC/pre-UFA players to try and create flexibility and build depth?

Leafs could really use a deal like that, how much term does he have left?