Is there any doubt that Mike Babcock is the best coach in the league?

[The Zetterberg Era]

He has been thoroughly out coached in four of the last five Red Wings playoff series exits. Really he did best Q, when they gave up the 3-1 lead to Chicago. I know people will point to talent, but he wasn't great in the Bruins series, I did excuse him in the Chicago one because of the talent gap. He certainly was a large part of the fault in the back to back exits to old head assistant McLellan and Trotz crushed him from a schematic standpoint and matchups left and right when Nashville sent the Wings packing.

Babcock is a very good coach, but he is not infallible. He can be too obsessed with size and he rarely uses his timeout appropriately. I don't think he has been near as good since McLellan left in terms of scheming other teams out of what they are doing and adjustments on the fly. He has done very well with the young talent and is developing most of them appropriately though like all coaches he has his favorites and his targets. But still, I think Babcock misses McLellan, his new staff is helping this year, but he lacks the same decisive punch he had when Todd McLellan was on the Wings staff.

 

[Ynnek]

Ovechkin is a +12 right now so there is a good coach.

 

[Get North]

Quenneville has missed the playoffs once in his coaching tenure (18 years). He has a great system and a great way of developing players (Shaw, Saad, Kruger, Hjalmarsson, Leddy, Toews, Kane).

He leads all active coaches in Wins (regular season and playoff).

Toews and Kane were 1st overall picks.

He sure does, maybe because he has a great team infront of him? He didn't even get selected to be an assistant coach for Canada.

 

[StLHokie]

Toews and Kane were 1st overall picks.

He sure does, maybe because he has a great team infront of him? He didn't even get selected to be an assistant coach for Canada.

1st overall picks do not translate to cups.

See: Ovechkin, Stamkos, Nash, E Johnson, Kovalchuk, DiPietro, Tavares, Hall, Thornton, Stefan... the list goes on....

 

[DonskoiDonscored]

Sutter is better.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

He's the best.
You can always have debate on the issue though.

 

[Hammettf2b]

The best coach would never put a scoring line together of Cleary Daytsuk Abdelkader. Yes that was basically scoring line 1A or B two seasons ago. Great coach for sure, infuriating lines and roster decisions at times.

A part of me wants to believe he does things like this just to spite Holland. Sort of his way of saying "get me some real talent damnit".

 

[Bures Elbow]

Guy coached Canada to 2 golds.

in 2010 he always said we'd win in the radio when interviewed even after losing to the USA in group play

won a cup with Detroit and always got them to atleast the second round

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Guy coached Canada to 2 golds.

in 2010 he always said we'd win in the radio when interviewed even after losing to the USA in group play

won a cup with Detroit and always got them to atleast the second round

Not so much...

I think he is in the discussion. But what he does on an international stage with prohibitive favorites does little for me in declaring this. Had he lost one of those, it would be bigger evidence that he is not. He is in the Top 5. Currently I think he is looking up at a couple guys, I would take Sutter and Julien before him for instance.

 

[Bures Elbow]

Not so much...

I think he is in the discussion. But what he does on an international stage with prohibitive favorites does little for me in declaring this. Had he lost one of those, it would be bigger evidence that he is not. He is in the Top 5. Currently I think he is looking up at a couple guys, I would take Sutter and Julien before him for instance.

Should have said playoffs then.

Still think hes a really good coach and got more out of Detroit then they had...dats and zettaberg always injured etc.

 

[Get North]

1st overall picks do not translate to cups.

See: Ovechkin, Stamkos, Nash, E Johnson, Kovalchuk, DiPietro, Tavares, Hall, Thornton, Stefan... the list goes on....

I'm not saying it does but Kane and Toews are first overall picks with alot of talent and he also had a great team around him, the players you listed didn't have as good as a team.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Nope.


And he's not even in the discussion for me anymore. A few years ago I definitely would have said yes, but he's taken a step backwards for me the past couple of years.



I think he's a clear step behind Trotz, Cooper, and Sutter. Those 3 are above the rest.

He's in the next tier with Julien, Vigneault, Hitchcock, and Quenville for me.

 

[StLHokie]

I'm not saying it does but Kane and Toews are first overall picks with alot of talent and he also had a great team around him unlike most of the players you named.

But are they a great team because of the players or because of the coaching? Ovechkin has had Backstrom and Mike Green in his prime. Kovalchuk had Parise and Brodeur. Thornton has had a ton of good players around him out in San Jose.

At some point it becomes more than just the players, otherwise Pittsburgh would be winning the cup almost every year.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Should have said playoffs then.

Still think hes a really good coach and got more out of Detroit then they had...dats and zettaberg always injured etc.

I think he was a great hire in terms of putting more grime in when he first showed up. He inherited a good culture that is very much player driven and they tweaked some of what Babcock likes in.

I have enjoyed the work he has done the last couple years. However, it isn't that surprising to those of us that have followed the Wings for a lot of years that the talent in the organization is still at a very high level. People doubted these kids were good, but they have been developed appropriately and in the right environment. They are darn good hockey players, Nyquist and Tatar drove the team into the playoffs in a large part because they are very talented hockey players that were crafted the Red Wings way before Babcock even got his hands on them.

I just worry about how his message will work with the current crowd. If they have swung too far into his love affair with 2-1 grimy hockey games when by in large they are still a very talented bunch. I think it can work, but the guys work very well with Jeff Blashill as well. The Wings have been good for two and a half decades with and without Babcock during that time period. While he is a very good coach, I think the attachment to his NHL status is wrapped up in being a part of the two biggest juggernaut organizations the sport has to offer in Hockey Canada and the Detroit Red Wings.

He will be good anywhere, but for instance Leafs fans lining up thinking he has a fix for that are going to wind up awfully disappointed if he does take that chance. He is unlikely to be the miracle worker they think, especially if it is a power play for more organizational control, he has some curious attachments and talent evaluations. I actually think he will re-sign, but I am not scared at all of a post Babcock era if it does come to pass.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

I'm not saying it does but Kane and Toews are first overall picks with alot of talent and he also had a great team around him, the players you listed didn't have as good as a team.

Toews is not a 1st overall pick

And Babcock won a cup with several future HOF's and a stacked team

So if your going to hold Toews/Kane against Q well the Wings had prime Datsyuk and Zetterberg under Babcock

 

[CupInSIX]

I had very little confidence in him being able to coach Team Canada to gold.

He says the right things, and acts the right way, but he's always been blessed with a great deal of talent. I mean, I think he's in the top 10, but who knows how much he could get out of a team like the Oilers.

 

[Get North]

But are they a great team because of the players or because of the coaching? Ovechkin has had Backstrom and Mike Green in his prime. Kovalchuk had Parise and Brodeur. Thornton has had a ton of good players around him out in San Jose.

At some point it becomes more than just the players, otherwise Pittsburgh would be winning the cup almost every year.

Because of the players.

Quenneville is a good coach, I think he's top 5 but he hasn't had to deal with what Babcock went through in terms of rosters or injuries.

Toews is not a 1st overall pick

And Babcock won a cup with several future HOF's and a stacked team

So if your going to hold Toews/Kane against Q well the Wings had prime Datsyuk and Zetterberg under Babcock

Babcock got his team into the playoffs with Datsyuk and Zetterberg playing a combined 83 games last season, Zetterberg (47 games) and Datsyuk (36 games). Quenneville got fired by STL through 3/4 of the season with a team that included players like Pronger, Tkachuk, Weight and Osgood, then in Colorado with Sakic on his team along with some other good players. Babcock lost his job too in Anaheim but his team had Fedorov (65 points in 80 games) and Prospal, leading his team.

Tell me the next season Quenneville loses his top 2 players for that long. One time when Quenneville lost Toews for 23 games and they finished in 6th place in the West behind Detroit who lost Datsyuk for 12 games but had an aging Lidstrom, Holmstrom. That was the 2011-12 season, comparing rosters, Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Keith, Seabrook, Bolland to Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Flippula, Franzen, Lidstrom, Kronwall.

 

[googlymoogly]

I think he's over rated. He let Boston get under his skin last playoffs and the Wings played a reckless style against a Bruin team that will eat you alive if you try playing their style.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Because of the players.

Quenneville is a good coach, I think he's top 5 but he hasn't had to deal with what Babcock went through in terms of rosters or injuries.

Babcock got his team into the playoffs with Datsyuk and Zetterberg playing a combined 83 games last season, Zetterberg (47 games) and Datsyuk (36 games). Quenneville got fired by STL through 3/4 of the season with a team that included players like Pronger, Tkachuk, Weight and Osgood, then in Colorado with Sakic on his team along with some other good players. Babcock lost his job too in Anaheim but his team had Fedorov (65 points in 80 games) and Prospal, leading his team.

Tell me the next season Quenneville loses his top 2 players for that long. One time when Quenneville lost Toews for 23 games and they finished in 6th place in the West behind Detroit who lost Datsyuk for 12 games but had an aging Lidstrom, Holmstrom. That was the 2011-12 season, comparing rosters, Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Keith, Seabrook, Bolland to Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Flippula, Franzen, Lidstrom, Kronwall.

I see your saying Babcock is only coach to ever deal with injuries to stars?

Q got Blues into playoffs with Pronger missing all but 5 games and Tkachuk missing nearly a 1/3 of season. With Brent Johnson and Fred Braithwaite in net

Let me know when Babcock gets to playoffs with a Johnson/Braithwaite caliber duo in net and missing his #1 defender for year and a star scorer 1/3 of year

-- Also the year before that MacInnis + Pronger both missed 20+ games (23 for MacInnis and 31 for Pronger) while Demitra only played 44 games and Q got that Blues team to playoffs again ,,, With Turek + Johnson in net as well --

 

[TNT87]

What has he done lately? Not much. That's not to take away from his many accomplishments but since his last Cup appearance, a loss, his teams have done little in the postseason. Yes, he's definitely a very good coach but there is definitely doubt as to say he is the best right now.

 

[Kronwalled8*]

My top two NHL coaches have been Babcock and Joel Quenneville in Chicago. There are other top notch guys but those two have been a cut above for so long now.

+1 on Q.

Quenville has always flown under the radar because he started off as an assistant. There is not a better coach in the league who makes in game changes than Joel.

 

[Get North]

I see your saying Babcock is only coach to ever deal with injuries to stars?

Q got Blues into playoffs with Pronger missing all but 5 games and Tkachuk missing nearly a 1/3 of season. With Brent Johnson and Fred Braithwaite in net

Let me know when Babcock gets to playoffs with a Johnson/Braithwaite caliber duo in net and missing his #1 defender for year and a star scorer 1/3 of year

-- Also the year before that MacInnis + Pronger both missed 20+ games (23 for MacInnis and 31 for Pronger) while Demitra only played 44 games and Q got that Blues team to playoffs again ,,, With Turek + Johnson in net as well --

No, I'm only talking about Babcock and Quenneville, where did you get that from?

Is that the year where Demitra had a career year? MacInnis with 68 points, most for defenceman and being a first team all-star? Yeah, well missing Pronger who is a future Hall of Famer hurts bad but when you got MacInnis another Hall of Famer well I don't expect it to hurt too bad.

Sure those players missed some games but how many games did they miss with all those players out at the same time?

 

[Inkling]

It's always debatable, but it would be a crime if he never won an Adams award.

 

[Michael Brand Eggs]

I think he's in the top 10, but who knows how much he could get out of a team like the Oilers.

He did have that cinderella run with the Ducks.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

This thread makes me laugh. People saying he only won with stacked teams in Canada and '08 Detroit, then pointing out how the coaches of LA and Chicago are better because they've won more cups, as if they didn't have stacked rosters.

The Wings contending window was 07-09. 07 was wrecked by going up against a very good Ducks team without our #2 and #3 defencemen. We won in '08 with the most dominant team of the cap era. '09 was wrecked by a ridiculous pile of injuries.
After that, the team started breaking up due to the cap and aging/retiring players. We've remained a playoff team through that time, and its only now that all our youngsters are starting to mature that we're starting to look like a contender again. And that's without having a single "elite" player on the roster. Not one of our key players (Dats, Z, Kronwall, Howard) would be ranked top-10 in their position on HFBoards. Our D-corps is routinely described as mediocre, our goaltender as worse. Our stars are over-the hill, and our youngsters are over-rated.

And yet, here we are, one point out of 1st place in the East. It couldn't be down to the coach could it?