Is there any chance the Rangers can trade for a true #1?

[Gardner McKay]

Eric Staal is a lazy and disinterested hockey player. He'd be the epitome of a Rangers move, especially if you move a young top 6 Center for him.

Buy low on a young Center who's fallen out of favor with their team. That's the only way this team is going to get a true #1 for years to come without drafting one:

Kadri would be a good piece. Try to land Burmistrov's rights and see if he's interested in coming back. Wait for the right deal and stop blowing assets on overpaid older guys.

Burmistrov was overrated when he was drafted. Overrated when he played for the Thrashers. Still overrated now. We would be lucky if he became a 2nd line C. Kadri would be a good option.

 

[bernmeister]

If he's a second line center, there are only a handful of first line centers in the league, in which case, we're not really talking about "first line centers" anymore, we're talking about elite centers. Step isn't one of those, no, but he's very clearly a first line center.

This^.
However, the problem is we are likely to face somebody in the finals who will dominate Stepan. Getzlaf. Kopitar.

We need to continue getting better across the board, and then, if opportunity knocks and we can flip ROR (a cancer I don't want), Stepan and maybe Kadri (for Girardi) for Ryan Johannsson, that's when you go there.

 

[Gardner McKay]

This^.
However, the problem is we are likely to face somebody in the finals who will dominate Stepan. Getzlaf. Kopitar.

We need to continue getting better across the board, and then, if opportunity knocks and we can flip ROR (a cancer I don't want), Stepan and maybe Kadri (for Girardi) for Ryan Johannsson, that's when you go there.

Kopitar dominated Stepan so badly that he was only able to score 2 points?

 

[haveandare]

This^.
However, the problem is we are likely to face somebody in the finals who will dominate Stepan. Getzlaf. Kopitar.

We need to continue getting better across the board, and then, if opportunity knocks and we can flip ROR (a cancer I don't want), Stepan and maybe Kadri (for Girardi) for Ryan Johannsson, that's when you go there.

I like RyJo as much as anyone but I wouldn't ever trade an entire team worth of centers for him. That's insane. He had one good year and doesn't want to sign a bridge.

 

[Fletch]

This^.
However, the problem is we are likely to face somebody in the finals who will dominate Stepan. Getzlaf. Kopitar.

We need to continue getting better across the board, and then, if opportunity knocks and we can flip ROR (a cancer I don't want), Stepan and maybe Kadri (for Girardi) for Ryan Johannsson, that's when you go there.

If you want to get better across the board, I think this team would have to dismantle a bit, trade for that top-end talent, have little depth and...what am I saying. Stepan held his own in the Finals, and against PITT. And it's not all on the centerman...I think there were a few missed opportunities by his wingers to score in open nets and near open nets which would have increased Stepan's scoring totals. Further, he was a bit hampered in the finals after losing a fair amount of weight, and I assume muscle and energy, after his broken jaw. He's not an all-world player, but he works well enough within the entire team that the organization shouldn't be going out and finding that elite center at the expense of the depth they're quickly losing, and partly why the the team went so far and which plays well into AV's coaching system.

 

[bernmeister]

Kopitar dominated Stepan so badly that he was only able to score 2 points?

Good one.

But my point remains.
Whatever you consider that level of dominance to be, there is
a premium group
an elite group
an uber elite group

These cover the top 10, or 12. Maybe 15.
There's a couple more, then Stepan.

But it's not just their scoring on us, is it?
When we wanted to up our scoring over the last games, the bigger Kings dominated.
It's an axiom of sports generally true: the good big man beats the good little man.

Stepan can improve, and he can already outplay a lot of guys with better natural gifts!

But the top group, who've proven they can dominate, no he can't.
That doesn't mean we don't want him.
It does mean if there is overpayment we should take it.

 

[bernmeister]

I like RyJo as much as anyone but I wouldn't ever trade an entire team worth of centers for him. That's insane. He had one good year and doesn't want to sign a bridge.

We disagree on RyJo, even understanding overpayment would be required to get CBJ to consider moving him.

But whether it is RyJo or somebody else, the point I make holds.

If you just want to make a winning team, we don't have to go the extra mile my way.

If you want a team that has the best chance to win the cup because it can dominate and has a good chance to impose it's will, even on a similar counterpart in the other conference esp., then we need to adjust and get more/better premium pieces.

 

[bernmeister]

If you want to get better across the board, I think this team would have to dismantle a bit, trade for that top-end talent, have little depth and...what am I saying. Stepan held his own in the Finals, and against PITT. And it's not all on the centerman...I think there were a few missed opportunities by his wingers to score in open nets and near open nets which would have increased Stepan's scoring totals. Further, he was a bit hampered in the finals after losing a fair amount of weight, and I assume muscle and energy, after his broken jaw. He's not an all-world player, but he works well enough within the entire team that the organization shouldn't be going out and finding that elite center at the expense of the depth they're quickly losing, and partly why the the team went so far and which plays well into AV's coaching system.

Understood. Many good points. I respect them.
However, you either become dominant or stay where you are and hope to luck your way to the cup.

It's a fair discussion point to debate whether Stepan should or should not be a chip that is sold to that end.

But relative to the return we can expect from Bras. with Zuc, and given how high Stepan would command on the market. I think it is fair to consider him.

 

[bernmeister]

Burmistrov was overrated when he was drafted. Overrated when he played for the Thrashers. Still overrated now. We would be lucky if he became a 2nd line C. Kadri would be a good option.

May I consider you, then, on board with my advocation of Girardi + for Kadri + ?

 

[Doctyl]

ROR Stepan and Kadri>>>>>RyJo

 

[jerseyjinx94]

ROR Stepan and Kadri>>>>>RyJo

Yeah he wants to trade all 3 of those guys for RyJo? Only one of those guys is on our team right now, anyway, so it's just stupid.

 

[Zuccarello Awesome*]

1) Brassard (RFA rights), McIlrath, Fast for Patrick Sharp and Jeremy Morin
[Chicago needs some cap-relief. Brassard gives them another center option (will likely sign for around 3.5-4 million per season). McIlrath and Fast gives them two borderline NHL-ready players on ELC's. I'm sure they'd like to keep Morin, but he's the sweetener to get the deal done so that Sather is willing to take on Sharp's nearly-6-million-dollar cap-hit. Rangers get a guy who can play both center and wing, and while he's been more effective at wing in recent years, I believe with the right linemates, he's a capable center. This also gives Chicago great center depth and plenty of options with Toews, Brassard, Richards, Shaw/Kruger/Regin down the middle.]

2) Klein for Jason Zucker
[The Wild need some experience on D. They know Klein's abilities as they played against him many times when he was on NSH. Zucker adds more youth and depth to NY's roster and can play anywhere in the bottom-9]

Nash Sharp St. Louis
Kreider Stepan Zuccarello
Hagelin Lindberg Morin
Glass Moore Zucker

Forward Depth (injuries, call-ups, etc): J.T. Miller, Danny Kristo, Ryan Haggerty
{note: It's simply personal preference to pencil in Lindberg over Miller for the 3C spot. I believe that Lindberg will win the spot over J.T. Miller, but it's of course open for discussion as the spot is really up for grabs to whoever shines in training camp. Either way, Kristo, Haggerty, and one of Miller/Lindberg would be the first injury call-ups from HFD}

McDonagh Girardi
Staal Boyle
Moore Allen

Defensive Depth: Matt Hunwick, Mike Kostka, Brady Skjei (if he leaves UMinn)

Lundqvist
Talbot


CapGeek Armchair GM Roster

FORWARDS

Rick Nash ($7.800m) / Patrick Sharp ($5.900m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
Chris Kreider ($2.400m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Mats Zuccarello ($3.750m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Oscar Lindberg ($0.675m) / Jeremy Morin ($0.800m)
Tanner Glass ($1.450m) / Dominic Moore ($1.500m) / Jason Zucker ($0.851m)
J.T. Miller ($0.894m) /

DEFENSEMEN

Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Dan Girardi ($5.500m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Dan Boyle ($4.500m)
John Moore ($1.200m) / Conor Allen ($0.925m)
Mike Kostka ($0.650m) /

GOALTENDERS

Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)

BUYOUTS

Wade Redden ($0.000m)
Brad Richards ($0.000m)

BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)

SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,482,167; BONUSES: $1,285,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,517,833


That leaves NYR with 1.5 million in cap-space. That's a great amount for some wiggle room, flexibility for call-ups/injuries and potential mid-season or deadline transactions.

note: NYR would be able to keep/afford Klein if Zuccarello takes a bit less than 3.75M per season, and some minor tweaks are made. (Of course many of us would be thrilled to trade Glass for a 7th round pick and play someone on a ELC to easily solve the problem, but AV wanted him for a reason and he's not going to be moved before he sees how he fits with this team)

 

[Zuccarello Awesome*]

My other dream scenario would be...

1) Ask Nash to waive his NTC to goto San Jose to play with buddy Joe Thornton...

Nash for Pavelski and Hertl

2) Brassard, McIlrath, Fast for Sharp and Morin

Lineup:

Sharp Pavelski St. Louis
Kreider Stepan Zuccarello
Hagelin Lindberg Hertl
Glass Moore Morin

Forward Depth: J.T. Miller, Danny Kristo, Ryan Haggerty


McDonagh Girardi
Staal Boyle
Moore Klein

Defensive Depth: Conor Allen, Matt Hunwick, Mike Kostka, Brady Skjei (if he leaves UMinn)


Lundqvist
Talbot



Now that lineup is a powerhouse. But extremely unrealistic, I know. But hey, if Gretzky can be traded, then Nash can waive his NTC to play with Thornton in San Jose. Stranger things have happened.

Also would probably need to add to the Chicago deal to get Jeremy Morin as well.

Even without him included, I'd probably still do Brassard, McIlrath, Fast for Sharp



And for those who think a lineup like that couldn't fit under the salary-cap... it absolutely does, with 1.2 million in cap-space.


CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Patrick Sharp ($5.900m) / Joe Pavelski ($6.000m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
Chris Kreider ($2.400m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Mats Zuccarello ($3.750m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Oscar Lindberg ($0.675m) / Tomas Hertl ($0.925m)
Tanner Glass ($1.450m) / Dominic Moore ($1.500m) / Jeremy Morin ($0.800m)
J.T. Miller ($0.894m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Dan Girardi ($5.500m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Dan Boyle ($4.500m)
John Moore ($1.200m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)
Mike Kostka ($0.650m) /
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)
BUYOUTS
Wade Redden ($0.000m)
Brad Richards ($0.000m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,731,667; BONUSES: $860,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,268,333

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

San Jose isn't moving Pavelski.

 

[Zuccarello Awesome*]

San Jose isn't moving Pavelski.

Based on...?


I'd think he's available for the right price.

Thornton and Couture are both capable of being #1 centers.

Hertl, Pavelski, Wingels, Sheppard, and even Marleau (although he's basically a full-time winger now) are all natural centers.

I'd think they'd be interested in a Nash for Pavelski swap assuming they do keep Thornton.

 

[JaeTM]

San Jose isn't moving Pavelski.

Let alone Pavelski AND Hertl

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Nash for Pavelski and Hertl ROFL

 

[trilobyte]

Forget about Thornton.
Do some Rangers fans actually want that guy? I am so against it, may it never happen.

 

[MetalGodAOD*]

Based on...?


I'd think he's available for the right price.

Thornton and Couture are both capable of being #1 centers.

Hertl, Pavelski, Wingels, Sheppard, and even Marleau (although he's basically a full-time winger now) are all natural centers.

I'd think they'd be interested in a Nash for Pavelski swap assuming they do keep Thornton.

Due to the fact Pavelski scored 40 last year at a cheaper price than Nash. The trade value on your proposals are completely one-sided. Oh man I love the offseason.

 

[Fletch]

Understood. Many good points. I respect them.
However, you either become dominant or stay where you are and hope to luck your way to the cup.

It's a fair discussion point to debate whether Stepan should or should not be a chip that is sold to that end.

But relative to the return we can expect from Bras. with Zuc, and given how high Stepan would command on the market. I think it is fair to consider him.

I don't disagree, but how do you become dominant? What do you want your team to look like? And with the cap, how do you build that team. Some money is locked up for a few players, McD, Girardi...and the Rangers spend more on a goaltender than the rest of the league. Then you talk about bringing in high-end talent, but if you don't have the young guys coming in at low costs, you run out of either cap space or quality guys on your third and fourth lines and second and third defensive pairs. Further, if we bring this back to Rangers reality and three years without a #1 pick, you hinder your ability to acquire that top end guy, or get a great player who can play for relatively cheap for a few seasons and then develop into that player. So what the Rangers have to do is put together as best they can that lineup that can compete. They did it last season. No real skating stars. Just a bunch of guys who kept coming a you and pushing away what others brought until they met someone who can match and beat that. I don't know if you always need a top 5 scorer on your team if you find a way to neutralize a team's top line then beat them lines 2-4.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I don't disagree, but how do you become dominant? What do you want your team to look like? And with the cap, how do you build that team. Some money is locked up for a few players, McD, Girardi...and the Rangers spend more on a goaltender than the rest of the league. Then you talk about bringing in high-end talent, but if you don't have the young guys coming in at low costs, you run out of either cap space or quality guys on your third and fourth lines and second and third defensive pairs. Further, if we bring this back to Rangers reality and three years without a #1 pick, you hinder your ability to acquire that top end guy, or get a great player who can play for relatively cheap for a few seasons and then develop into that player. So what the Rangers have to do is put together as best they can that lineup that can compete. They did it last season. No real skating stars. Just a bunch of guys who kept coming a you and pushing away what others brought until they met someone who can match and beat that. I don't know if you always need a top 5 scorer on your team if you find a way to neutralize a team's top line then beat them lines 2-4.

The cap structure makes it awfully difficult for teams to become/remain dominant. I fear our friend bernmeister is stuck in the 80's and thinks its possible to build a dynasty in this day and age.

I won't even mention his wild trade proposals which would set the team back many, many years.

 

[TollefsenFan]

Stepan is Our 1st center. I would rather have him than some overpaid 10,5 million pr year center.

 

[acapps10]

These Nash for Pavelski and Hertl proposals are totally ridiculous. You couldn't get one of them for Nash straight up.

 

[bernmeister]

ROR Stepan and Kadri>>>>>RyJo

More like >> or >>> max.
Not addressing my points.
You need to overpay to get CBJ to deal him.
You need to get guys like RyJo, Draisatil, etc who are potential foundation pieces who are the Getzlafs of tomorrow now while cheapER and obtainable at all.
Getting a RyJo now due to opportunity presenting itself
Maybe Drisatil if it is a can't refuse offer for Oilers
and all of a sudden, after reasonable growing pains, you are good...

plus then, are more attractive for Stamkos in 2 yrs!

ROR - also has downside, would prefer to add and move for better guy with less downside.

ROR + Stepan + can get something better still, don't be afraid to think outside the box.

 

[Mac n Gs]

More like >> or >>> max.
Not addressing my points.
You need to overpay to get CBJ to deal him.
You need to get guys like RyJo, Draisatil, etc who are potential foundation pieces who are the Getzlafs of tomorrow now while cheapER and obtainable at all.
Getting a RyJo now due to opportunity presenting itself
Maybe Drisatil if it is a can't refuse offer for Oilers
and all of a sudden, after reasonable growing pains, you are good...

plus then, are more attractive for Stamkos in 2 yrs!

ROR - also has downside, would prefer to add and move for better guy with less downside.

ROR + Stepan + can get something better still, don't be afraid to think outside the box.

Please explain why Edmonton would trade Leon a few weeks after drafting him. Same thing goes for Detroit and Larkin. These trades are never happening. Same thing with acquiring ROR just to package him and Stepan together. I get your whole "get them before they blossom" angle, but teams just don't let these cost-controlled assets go. The fantasy land you live in where such things can happen is laughable.