Is there an issue with Finnish development system ?

[WarriorofTime]

Again, there's enough money in Finnish hockey for hundreds of athletes to make a decent living whether in the domestic league or abroad. But for example in gymnastics even the best can't expect to ever make much more than the annual €20k grant that a small handful of top athletes across all sports receive from the government. That's about $1800 a month (the most any gymnast currently makes is $900). A far cry from the $7.1 million that Biles made last year. Yet a Mikko Rantanen makes more than that.

Biles only made that because she is the best ever. Ordinary gymnasts don't make that in the U.S.

 

[Albatros]

Even a Fred Richard has a pile of endorsement deals, his own clothing brand, a million followers on social media, and a University of Michigan scholarship thanks to his career. Not to mention a Finnish gymnastics coach that only gets to do his job professionally in the US.

 

[WayTooCold]

In Finland all the talent is pushed into hockey.
You make good money in the NHL and get Miss Finland as girlfriend.
In marathon running you end up poor.

The Finnish culture is all about drinking beer, eating sausage and hockey.
No money or talent left for swimming for example.

 

[teravaineSAROS]

This reminds me of the early 2000s where there was this "everybody plays" mentality and everybody was being developed into a two-way grinder.

Finland's also been over-achieving a lot lately so now that's being treated as the new standard which is unrealistic.

It's been awesome being able to compete with teams like Canada in the finals, we've finally been good enough to have other countries hate on us in these boards but realistically Finland's too small to sustain that. The population density is very low for and there aren't as many arenas and things like that as in say Sweden to adapt to that.

Other countries like Czechia and Slovakia have a very promising future (which is great, love those countries) and I expect they'll be better than Finland in a few years if the trend continues.

 

[Czechboy]

This reminds me of the early 2000s where there was this "everybody plays" mentality and everybody was being developed into a two-way grinder.

Finland's also been over-achieving a lot lately so now that's being treated as the new standard which is unrealistic.

It's been awesome being able to compete with teams like Canada in the finals, we've finally been good enough to have other countries hate on us in these boards but realistically Finland's too small to sustain that. The population density is very low for and there aren't as many arenas and things like that as in say Sweden to adapt to that.

Other countries like Czechia and Slovakia have a very promising future (which is great, love those countries) and I expect they'll be better than Finland in a few years if the trend continues.

I wouldn't say better..

I have Finland in top tier and hope they stay. I want us to join the tier with the Finn's.

In any case.. looking at senior players.. czechs and Slovaks combined are behind Finland today.

 

[ijuka]

There are several issues, from nepotism to Jukka Jalonen-inspired team play focus and shunning individual talent, to coaches tryharding at minor hockey levels instead of using systems that are ideal for players to develop, to players simply having very lackluster training programs leaving all Finnish prospect far behind all other prospects come draft time, etc.

 

[teravaineSAROS]

I wouldn't say better..

I have Finland in top tier and hope they stay. I want us to join the tier with the Finn's.

I hope you do! the league would be awesome with more Czech stars. You guys have some very exciting prospects in the next few drafts so hopefully the trend continues. Same goes for Slovakia.

 

[Svedu]

Still very early and uncertain but the group born 03 could eventually end up being a good crop for Finland. It looked a lot worse one and two years ago.
03:
Lambert
Huuhtanen
Oliver Kapanen
Koivunen
Topias Vilén
Tuomaala
Matikka

Also a couple 04:
Nyman
Hämeenaho
Kemell
Pulkkinen
Keskinen
Kärki
Kokko

05:
Kumpulainen
Halttunen
Vinni
Vali
Kiiskinen

06:
Helenius.
Hemming
I don't want to mention those two D's before they have a really good year. So everything is not a disaster, yet. Let's hope for the best.

 

[Svedu]

Interesting. Besides the great Saros and very exciting UPL Finland does seem to produce some goalies again with the potential to become a future starter in the NHL if everything pans out. Especially the younger ones. Reminds me a bit of the time we had some good goalies but were lacking talent amongst players. Because amongst players the talent level has been a bit disappointing compared to a couple of years ago.
Saros and UPL were special at the junior level. Saros was always extra and UPL very good.

Here are som of them:
Kerkola
Rimpinen
Saarinen
Vinni
Vali
Meriläinen
Kokko
Blomqvist
Koskenvuo?
Salminen?
Jatkola
Annunen
Tikkanen.

Edit: How come Saipa have Lindberg, Salminen and Piiroinen in their roster? One goalie too much in a Liiga team with their caliber.

 

[erikhamren]

In my opinion no. Every country have their weaker draft class some years.

Theres things to do tho not only for Finland but for other europeans nations aswell, like change our rinks to NHL level. I think that would benefit our talents progress

 

[ViD]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1846636751080563107

 

[WarriorofTime]

Worst Finnish age group so far

 

[Czechboy]

Yikes.. that is not encouraging. I do think they get it back. I'm still of the small nation can't elite every year vibe.

 

[Albatros]

More players that stay in Liiga may actually help the system.

 

[SantosHalper]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1846636751080563107

It's happening, like i (and many others) been saying, ball has rolling for couple years now and most likely it hasn't even reached the bottom yet. Junior coaching needs drastic changes, same with Liiga. Too many teams, too many games, not enough quality players and not enough competition. That compined with poor junior coaching is a recipe for a disaster. No wonder all the kids leave.

Yikes.. that is not encouraging. I do think they get it back. I'm still of the small nation can't elite every year vibe.

Elites are hard to come by but i would be nice to even have players that can keep up. But they can get it back, if they start working again. Last time, the emergency meeting was held in 2009 and 2014 WJC gold was the first result. Probably in 4-5 years they could fix it but that doesn't happen until they actually start fixing it. Now they haven't done, a damn thing about it. It's easy to predict poor results for this season, first results for this season are in already. Hlinka-Gretzky Cup...

Placement game "win" and behind Germany in group stage....
Fewest goals scored(tied with Switzerland, so far).....

 

[WayTooCold]

They can't focus on hockey right now because they have to prepare for the incoming Russian invasion.
Thus big drop in prospects.

 

[ViD]

They can't focus on hockey right now because they have to prepare for the incoming Russian invasion.
Thus big drop in prospects.

Are you talking about the Russian tourist invasion to buy electronics when the borders re open ?

 

[vorky]

Yikes.. that is not encouraging. I do think they get it back. I'm still of the small nation can't elite every year vibe.

If they want to get it back, they need to do hockey. You can not progress in game of hockey if you as Finnish hockey federation invest all your energy & resources into things not related to game of hockey. As simple as that.

 

[Albatros]

Resources are better than ever. The back-to-back World Championship tournaments alone generated more than 25 million USD for the federation. This money is being invested further and the proceeds will go to additional development projects.

 

[The Frying Finn]

Difficult subject, even for a Finn like me.

There is a chance that the current state is just what is normal though. And that we got players like Aho, Barkow, Rantanen and Heiskanen in a short period of time is just an anomaly. It's not like we've ever had dozens of NHL star players at the same time, so expecting that now can be a bit too much.

And it's not like other nations don't have their busts as well. Finland is just much smaller than the other big nations, the promising players who don't make it are are kinda a bigger deal for Finland than they are for eg. Canada. Canada had 20 1st rounders this year, Finland had 2. If Canada has 2 busts it doesn't affect the big picture, if Finland has 2 busts it's a big deal for us.

 

[Czechboy]

if Finland has 2 busts it's a big deal for us

As a Czech fan, I can relate to this!

 

[Jussi]

Difficult subject, even for a Finn like me.

There is a chance that the current state is just what is normal though. And that we got players like Aho, Barkow, Rantanen and Heiskanen in a short period of time is just an anomaly. It's not like we've ever had dozens of NHL star players at the same time, so expecting that now can be a bit too much.

And it's not like other nations don't have their busts as well. Finland is just much smaller than the other big nations, the promising players who don't make it are are kinda a bigger deal for Finland than they are for eg. Canada. Canada had 20 1st rounders this year, Finland had 2. If Canada has 2 busts it doesn't affect the big picture, if Finland has 2 busts it's a big deal for us.

We also have societal systemic issues causing more issues, the price of playing for kids and overall cost of everything right now. The numbers of junior player aren't going up.

 

[WayTooCold]

They need to produce real players not divers like Björnen. 2022 Canada tied the game and forced OT.

It would have been Canada's 28th gold medal if not Björnen dirty dive and paid refs. That embellishment dive should have resulted a penalty for Finland.

I feel like we were robbed of 28th gold in 2022. In Canada that kind of dive would have resulted a bench clearing brawl for 30 minutes. Lots of Canadians are still pretty angry.

Yeah prices are going up. Yeah here in Canada too. But we still put up our kids on skates and become real men. Not some euroland social media influencer wimps.

 

[Albatros]

Canada won dirty in 1994 so you win some, you lose some.