Is there an argument for Kopitar to be the 3rd best player of his generation behind Crosby/Ovechkin?

[spiny norman]

No, #3 is Malkin.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

#3 would have been Stamkos without the leg break.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Doughty has always been the better player between the two, so no.

I can agree with this but this forum will NEVER be ready for that chat

Probably bias on my part but I can't recall Kopitar having any "Big" moments unlike Kane and Malkin

Part of Kane's legacy will be his big moments like his SC winning goal in OT or the goal that sent Hawks to finals in 2013 (Vs Kings)

When I think of Kings cup teams Quick and Doughty are guys I immediately think of and Kopitar sorta falls in with the secondary guys like Martinez, Carter, etc when thinking of that run they had (2012-2014)

That may also be because vs. the Hawks Kopitar was always wrestling with Toews and Hossa at even strength, none of those guys ever did much outside special teams head to head.






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As usual, starts behind his own goal line, puck gets into opposing net, very methodical and boring.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Would honestly take Kopitar over Malkin to build a contender around and not think twice about it. Malkin clearly the more talented player but the guy got the gravy matchups and zone starts basically his entire career. Seemingly always injured too. Eastern fans don't know about Anze, he was and still kind of is an absolute machine of a 200ft 1st line C.

As far as a ranking goes though? Would still have both Malkin and Kane just ahead of him for fwds.

 

[FDBluth]

Are we only talking about forwards? Because Karlsson is definitely a tier above Kopitar as well.

 

[FerrisRox]

Maybe not for career but for that span I am not really seeing a credible argument that puts Kopitar over Giroux. There were several years Giroux was a top 2 center in the league, I don't think Kopitar ever ventured further than 5th. Kopitar is the new Sundin. Was never the best player in the league but played at a consistent level for a long time and passed most of his contemporaries in career numbers. Even in playoff numbers there is literally zero edge for Kopitar despite playing on more contenders than Giroux.

Giroux wasn't some slouch defensively before his skating dropped either. Without injuries Giroux's offensive numbers likely gap Kopitars. Even with Giroux's surgeries affecting his speed, he still is dead even in points per game over their careers. Not to mention the fact that Giroux played behind Carter and Richards at the very start of his career without PP time which skews the numbers he would have put up, evidenced by his 2010 playoff run.

I think Giroux has the top 2 or 3 seasons between the two of them.

These honestly remind me of the arguments for Toews > Malkin which were ridiculous as hell. At least Kopitar is comparable but there's not some mega gap between him and Giroux. Intangibles do not count for twice as much as tangibles.

Cool.

What about the part where Anze Kopitar is a top piece on two different Stanley Cup teams?

Kopitar posted 46 points in 46 playoff games during those two championship runs as a beast playing a 200 foot game.

You send me a multi-paragraph response about comparing Giroux and Kopitar, and you don't mention the Stanley Cups? You actually said "even in playoff numbers there is literally zero edge for Kopitar."

Are you serious with this?

 

[Osprey]

I always laugh seeing that shot of Dean Lombardi immediately after the goal.

If you saw that and knew only that the OT winner had just been scored, you'd guess that his team just lost.

 

[Grifter3511]

No, it doesn’t count for anything lol. I hope you were being sarcastic.

You actually had to ask?

 

[Drake1588]

There is a sustained excellence versus peak debate that rages when talking about an era's best players, or worthiness for the Hall of Fame for that matter. If you're singularly focused on pure peak, then Malkin and Karlsson have excellent cases. They shone brightest but not for that long. Kopitar's argument is that he's been an all-world two-way player (count his stellar defense as well as production, or this doesn't go anywhere) for a really long damn time. He's an accumulator of excellence, as opposed to laying down one hand and it's a royal flush, the rest of your night at the table be damned.

I'm intrigued by the Doughty argument too. I agree that he's in the high country. I'm not really comfortable tackling the defensemen versus forwards angle. Too apples and oranges for me. But yeah; I have a lot of time for Doughty in this debate as well.

 

[Osprey]

I don't want to downplay Doughty, but he missed most of this season and the Kings didn't even miss him. In fact, they were better before he came back. I can't see that happening with Kopitar. When he retires, he'll be harder to replace than Doughty, IMO.

 

[LeonDraisaitl]

No, how can you say he’s the third best when he was even overshadowed by Bergeron as the best defensive forward

 

[Rafafouille]

Malkin is 3rd and he has no case for #4 considering Bergeron has been the better player of the two.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

Malkin is 3rd and he has no case for #4 considering Bergeron has been the better player of the two.

Based on what exactly? Bergeron has been a bit better defensively, but has benefitted from tremendous help from playing on a really good team for a really long time. Even if he had better linemates, he still couldn’t outproduce Anze consistently offensively, save for a couple of spike years.

Then, you enter the playoffs stratosphere where Kopitar has been very arguably better (46 pts in 46 games during both cup runs, crystal clear best forward) while Bergeron was outplayed by Krejci in both their cup runs in 2011 and 2013. He was not the Bruins best forward either in 2019.

You also have the longevity aspect in which Kopitar keeps adding to his resume.

 

[John Strachan]

But he does have one glaring weakness on his resume: he was never the best player in the world.

Malkin obviously was in 2012. Kane easily was in 2016.

Not saying that ends the argument but at this level, being that guy for a time has to count for something.

And I am sure that had nothing to do with the fact that Malkin played for Russia, Kane played for USA and Kopitar played for Slovenia.

Problem with this argument is that Malkin & Kane played for world titles, including a lot more tourney games for Russia and USA whereas Kopitar was only able to drag the vastly less talented Slovenia national team into a real tournament once.

 

[John Strachan]

Malkin is 3rd and he has no case for #4 considering Bergeron has been the better player of the two.

Malkin played his whole career with Sidney Crosby. Not necessarily always on the same line, but the same PP and occasionally on the same line. Name any player that Kopitar played with that even came close to Crosby. Would Malkin have turned Dustin Brown into a star player on the Kings?

 

[Booker T]

Malkin played his whole career with Sidney Crosby. Not necessarily always on the same line, but the same PP and occasionally on the same line. Name any player that Kopitar played with that even came close to Crosby. Would Malkin have turned Dustin Brown into a star player on the Kings?

Malkin won the Art Ross, Hart, and Lindsay the year Crosby played only 22 games.

 

[John Strachan]

I have just never seen a season like this out of Kopitar. 11-12 Malkin was on pace for ~55 goals, 120 points. That's a large gap from the others in the top 10.

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No idea why NHL.com updates the team icons for past seasons. Stamkos on the Preds was electric.

Interesting choice of years considering that that was the year Malkin went out in the 1st round and the Kopitar-led Kings blitzkreiged the Cup in one of the all time great runs winning the SC in 20 games.

 

[eviohh26]

Good player but absolutely not.

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

Nope

 

[Maplebeasts]

No.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

You actually had to ask?

Not always easy to tell these days lol.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

lol before Geno? No. #4 though, I’d say he has a fantastic case.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

#3 would have been Stamkos without the leg break.

Ok and I’d say it’s still Malkin without the knee injuries and being coached by a dumb wanker like Sullivan that keeps screwing him over with line mates.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Malkin played his whole career with Sidney Crosby. Not necessarily always on the same line, but the same PP and occasionally on the same line. Name any player that Kopitar played with that even came close to Crosby. Would Malkin have turned Dustin Brown into a star player on the Kings?

JMO but Doughty is arguably the best defenseman of his generation. It's not nothing.

Bizarre that you would list Dustin Brown before him.

 

[ijuka]

Uh, no. No there isn't.