Is there a narrative that the Capitals are sacrificing everything to get Ovechkin the Goal Record? Is there a double standard with regards to Crosby?

[Lou Sassole]

Jensen has been a much better fit and stabilizer, than Chychurn for the Sens.
This is one of those that looks good for both sides atm.

Love a good win/win trade.

 

[DRW895]

Pure double standart. "No matter Crosby/Penguins did - ok, as for Ovechkin/Capitals - everything is wrong". In fact Ovechkin never was problem for Capitals.

 

[Chimaera]

How exactly? Truly, I don't know what they've lost aside from years of tanking for a top lottery pick but that's nothing more than a gamble to begin with.

Statistically, they’re not going to bottom out. Probably will end up adding parts for picks or prospects over the next season or two. So cracks at elite young talent might be a bit lower. It’s a gamble in the grand scheme of things, but they’re likely not a title winning team. So it’s a good story but maybe it makes future rebuilds harder

 

[pezpunk]

Statistically, they’re not going to bottom out. Probably will end up adding parts for picks or prospects over the next season or two. So cracks at elite young talent might be a bit lower. It’s a gamble in the grand scheme of things, but they’re likely not a title winning team. So it’s a good story but maybe it makes future rebuilds harder

total absolute malarkey. The caps are in great shape cap wise, they have a huge stable of upcoming talent in Miro, Leonard, Cristall, Lapierre, and others, and a good young core on the ice right now to build off of for years to come in Strome, McMichael, Protas, etc.

Oh yeah and the second best win percentage in the nhl right now, first in goals per game and 5v5 goals for.

But yeah I guess we should have sold it all, released Ovie, and tanked. That’s the smart move in your narrative.

 

[Guadana]

They should likely be rebuilding as they really have no shot at winning for starters. Even if you don’t think they should rebuild, Ovi should not be on the top line and should not be double shifting on the PP as he’s just not that player anymore.

Look, I don’t blame the Caps at all for doing this. But as a competitor and one of the best all time, I think it’s a bad look for Ovi. He should be getting the record because he deserves it, not because he’s afforded opportunities other players have not gotten.

The only bad look is for guys like you here. Its a bait for fools in the topic. Nothing against it.

Caps drafts well, builts well and compete for playoff without hurting any future like pens did. With real chances for something more and playoff appearances. But Ovi haters still have something to breath for.

 

[Madap]

The only bad look is for guys like you here. Its a bait for fools in the topic. Nothing against it.

Caps drafts well, builts well and compete for playoff without hurting any future like pens did. With real chances for something more and playoff appearances. But Ovi haters still have something to breath for.

I’m not an Ovi hater. I just don’t like when great players limp into records and don’t want to see it with Ovi. We saw it a bit last year already, however he’s very clearly proving me wrong so far this year, and if he keeps playing well for the rest of the year then I’ll happily admit it.

I’m still not convinced capitals are the real deal still but we’ll see as the season goes along. They’ve definitely been the early surprise team for sure.

 

[Foots]

Ask Caps fans how they feel about it.

Cup > goals record

 

[Blades Ov Steel]

I’m not an Ovi hater. I just don’t like when great players limp into records and don’t want to see it with Ovi. We saw it a bit last year already, however he’s very clearly proving me wrong so far this year, and if he keeps playing well for the rest of the year then I’ll happily admit it.

I’m still not convinced capitals are the real deal still but we’ll see as the season goes along. They’ve definitely been the early surprise team for sure.

limp into records? don't all great players slowly regress at the end of their careers and happen to break records along the way? what else do you want him to do besides lead the league in goals at 39 years old?

If the caps aren't one of the top 3 teams in the league right now, who are you putting above them?

 

[AD1066]

limp into records? don't all great players slowly regress at the end of their careers and happen to break records along the way? what else do you want him to do besides lead the league in goals at 39 years old?

If the caps aren't one of the top 3 teams in the league right now, who are you putting above them?

To your point: Gretzky broke Howe's record in March of 1994. Then scored an additional 91 goals over the next six seasons, an average of 15 goals/year.

If Gretzky was able to pad his lead at such a pedestrian pace, why is the burden on Ovechkin to perform at a superhuman level through the end of his 30s? By the criteria of the poster you responded to, Gretzky arrived at 894 by "limping".

 

[Blades Ov Steel]

To your point: Gretzky broke Howe's record in March of 1994. Then scored an additional 91 goals over the next six seasons, an average of 15 goals/year.

If Gretzky was able to pad his lead at such a pedestrian pace, why is the burden on Ovechkin to perform at a superhuman level through the end of his 30s? By the criteria of the poster you responded to, Gretzky arrived at 894 by "limping".

precisely my point, it's just a silly argument IMO.

 

[Guadana]

I’m not an Ovi hater. I just don’t like when great players limp into records and don’t want to see it with Ovi. We saw it a bit last year already, however he’s very clearly proving me wrong so far this year, and if he keeps playing well for the rest of the year then I’ll happily admit it.

I’m still not convinced capitals are the real deal still but we’ll see as the season goes along. They’ve definitely been the early surprise team for sure.

He didn't. He was injured and needed rest.
And it does change nothing - caps do nothing to go all in for his record, he played with corp of Kuzi and with 2 cent Strome, caps picked all their picks and give all the opportunity to their young players. In the same time Ovi is continuing to produce as ppg or more and score 40+ goals outside his bad streak.

He is freaking league leader in goals. In the same time when younger Auston, Connor, Leon exist and play with much more talented partners. What's are you talking about?

All this haters just don't have any argument on and off the ice.

Cup > goals record

Nope. Cup is for many people, all time goal record is for only one and it takes 20 years to even try to achieve it. Not just one season.
And Ovechkun still have opportunity to win both. Even if he will not win it again, he is doing everything he can to win it and he do nothing to hurt his team in this deal.

On the other side penguins traded most of their picks, lost some important assets and didn't even won a play off spot.
Still Crosby do everything great its not his fault. But this Ovechkin narrative is pure sign of bad intellectual development if people who is translating it.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Statistically, they’re not going to bottom out. Probably will end up adding parts for picks or prospects over the next season or two. So cracks at elite young talent might be a bit lower. It’s a gamble in the grand scheme of things, but they’re likely not a title winning team. So it’s a good story but maybe it makes future rebuilds harder

If tanking were reliable, I think you would be correct. But it really is a low percentage play.

Of the teams to may have been tanking over the past 15 years, which of them have become a contender? The Oilers I guess.

OTOH you've got Buffalo, Columbus, San Jose, Anaheim, Montreal, Chicago, Ottawa, Detroit, and Arizona.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

I’m not an Ovi hater. I just don’t like when great players limp into records and don’t want to see it with Ovi. We saw it a bit last year already, however he’s very clearly proving me wrong so far this year, and if he keeps playing well for the rest of the year then I’ll happily admit it.

I’m still not convinced capitals are the real deal still but we’ll see as the season goes along. They’ve definitely been the early surprise team for sure.

He had a slow start last year and still ended up at 31 goals. This season 15 goals in 18 games. Leads league in goal scoring. He hasn't limped into anything. He deserves this. I say this as an Oilers fan too that didn't think Gretzky goal record was ever going to be threatened.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I hope the Caps win the cup this year!

 

[Plural]

I’m not an Ovi hater. I just don’t like when great players limp into records and don’t want to see it with Ovi. We saw it a bit last year already, however he’s very clearly proving me wrong so far this year, and if he keeps playing well for the rest of the year then I’ll happily admit it.

I’m still not convinced capitals are the real deal still but we’ll see as the season goes along. They’ve definitely been the early surprise team for sure.

That's literally how all-time records happen. Players playing out their entire career. Gretzky got to 894 by being a shadow of himself goal-scoring wise.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

People will find out just how good this Caps team is in Ovi’s absence when he comes back from his injury and they’ll still be in a playoff position.

The Caps management did everything they could to not only give Ovi a shot at the record, but to assemble a highly competitive roster around him capable of winning on any given night.

 

[Bileur]

Basically the question is in the title.

Do you believe (a) there is a narrative that Washington has sacrificed all team building for the sake of Ovechkin's legacy/pursuit of goal scoring record, (b) that this narrative has any merit, (c) that Pittsburgh has somehow escaped the same level of scrutiny with regards to the late stages of Crosby's career, (d) if there is a double standard, that this is somewhat warranted?

(a) yes I believe such a narrative was brewing with some people;
(b) with less than ideal results last year, I think people sounding the alarm for a potential sacrifice narrative was warranted. This season, with Ovie pouring in goals, that narrative sounds foolish and has been confirmed incorrect. Who wouldn’t want the greatest goalscorer of all time to keep scoring at a rocket trophy pace?
(c) Pittsburgh just looks to be trying (and unfortunately for them, failing) to win, I don’t see what stat record they may be trying to reach for Crosby
(d) there is no double standard

 

[Nogatco Rd]

If tanking were reliable, I think you would be correct. But it really is a low percentage play.

Of the teams to may have been tanking over the past 15 years, which of them have become a contender? The Oilers I guess.

OTOH you've got Buffalo, Columbus, San Jose, Anaheim, Montreal, Chicago, Ottawa, Detroit, and Arizona.

Eh, kind of misleading to say tanking hasn't paid off for Chicago when they won 3 cups with their most recently completed tanking cycle. No one expected them to win a cup the year after getting Bedard.

 

[um]

Eh, kind of misleading to say tanking hasn't paid off for Chicago when they won 3 cups with their most recently completed tanking cycle. No one expected them to win a cup the year after getting Bedard.

past 15 years they said.

I'd add Avs and Panthers to the list of successful tanks.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

past 15 years they said.

I'd add Avs and Panthers to the list of successful tanks.

Yeah thats kind of a self serving cutoff. It intentionally skips the multiple successful tanks that immediately preceded it, while including mostly teams which are either

1. still tanking
2. are still in the midst of their competitive window (i.e., too early to deem their tank "unsuccessful")

 

[Midnight Judges]

(a) yes I believe such a narrative was brewing with some people;
(b) with less than ideal results last year, I think people sounding the alarm for a potential sacrifice narrative was warranted. This season, with Ovie pouring in goals, that narrative sounds foolish and has been confirmed incorrect. Who wouldn’t want the greatest goalscorer of all time to keep scoring at a rocket trophy pace?

In order for the narrative to be accurate, you would have to be able to show something that was sacrificed.

Nobody seems to be able to point out what exactly that is.

For example, if the team, say, traded away 8 of its previous 12 first round draft picks thereby sacrificing the future in exchange for players who are contributing to Ovechkin’s record now.

Having a bad season unto itself doesn’t prove the narrative. There are plenty of teams that suck for no particular reason.

 

[Bileur]

In order for the narrative to be accurate, you would have to be able to show something that was sacrificed.

Nobody seems to be able to point out what exactly that is.

For example, if the team, say, traded away 8 of its previous 12 first rounder draft picks thereby sacrificing the future in exchange for players who are contributing to Ovechkin’s record now.

I agree.

That’s why I chose my words carefully and said it was « brewing » and «sounding the alarm for a potential narrative » .

 

[Madap]

To your point: Gretzky broke Howe's record in March of 1994. Then scored an additional 91 goals over the next six seasons, an average of 15 goals/year.

If Gretzky was able to pad his lead at such a pedestrian pace, why is the burden on Ovechkin to perform at a superhuman level through the end of his 30s? By the criteria of the poster you responded to, Gretzky arrived at 894 by "limping".

So you think if Howe had 900 goals, Gretzky wouldn’t have been able to beat it? It’s very clearly a different situation trying to beat a record vs continuing to pad it after it’s been beaten.

Gretzky had nothing to prove and nothing to beat. He had the record and had no motivation to continue padding his lead, particularly since he was a playmaker first and foremost. I’m sure had he focused on goal scoring like Ovechkin we wouldn’t even be having this conversation.

 

[Madap]

He had a slow start last year and still ended up at 31 goals. This season 15 goals in 18 games. Leads league in goal scoring. He hasn't limped into anything. He deserves this. I say this as an Oilers fan too that didn't think Gretzky goal record was ever going to be threatened.

I completely agree. He’s had a great year this year so far and is proving me wrong. Kudos to him.

But thinking he’d have a worse season than he has at this age doesn’t make me a hater. People are just so sensitive on these boards. Especially Ovi fans.

 

[Ben Grimm]

So you think if Howe had 900 goals, Gretzky wouldn’t have been able to beat it? It’s very clearly a different situation trying to beat a record vs continuing to pad it after it’s been beaten. Gretzky had nothing to prove and nothing to beat. He had the record and had no motivation to continue padding his lead, particularly since he was a playmaker first and foremost. I’m sure had he focused on goal scoring like Ovechkin we wouldn’t even be having this conversation.

Agreed. Gretzky has more assists than any other player has points. OV is nothing compared to Wayne. I have no idea why kids are excited about this record chase.